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Post by randomvioce on Jul 4, 2010 18:22:18 GMT
Me thinks the English would resent a Scot telling them which flag is appropriate or not at THEIR football games more than the fact that some team England fans whatever their orgin may be root for team England with a Union Jack! [/color][/size]   [/quote] Why is this so difficult for you to understand, Anna? You have had this explained to over three pages, but you seem not to grasp this very simple concept. Really, you are making this more complicated than it is. When ‘England’ is being represented by a flag, it is ‘appropriate’ to use the flag of ST George AKA ‘the English flag’ the clue is in the name. When ‘Great Britain’ is being represented it is by a flag ‘appropriate’ to use the British (Union) Flag. Again , the clue is in the name. When talking about ‘England’ or the ‘English’ it is appropriate to use the term. However, when you are referring to the ‘British’ or appropriate to use the term ‘British’. The two terms are NOT usually interchangeable. They mean different things. The fact that these terms have been used incorrectly in the past does don’t mean it suddenly becomes appropriate now. Andy Murray is Scottish and British, but being ‘British’ does not mean English as he is from a completely different part of the UK than England. David Cameron is the Prime Minster of Britain AND he is English, but he is not called the ‘Prime Minister of England’ because no such title exists. He is the head of the British Government. Riotgirl has spend this entire time attempting to explain the position to you and you appear to be hung up with the fact that people take the Union flag to football matches. People can take any flag they want to football matches. I see dozens of flags that are flown at football grounds, that is not an issue. People can and do fly whatever flag they want. We are merely saying that it is ‘appropriate’ or ‘correct’ to use the English flag for England and the British flag for Britain. What is SO difficult to understand about that? |
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 4, 2010 18:26:57 GMT
Here is a thought that is only rarely thunk: Thank God for Random Voice. I was beginning to think that it was me who was being difficult or petty or something.
thanks also to Fretty for posting the flags with comments.
Anna, do you get it yet?
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 4, 2010 18:47:59 GMT
Incidentally, could we all agree to just call it 'Football' and ignore this 'football and/or soccer' stuff'.
There is only one nation that qualified for the World Cup who would call the game 'soccer'. I think that maybe the rest of the world should just get them told. We shouldn't need to pander to them.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jul 4, 2010 23:07:16 GMT
C'mon riotgrrl. Football is played by NFL teams like the New England Patriots and the Houston Texans. It's also popular with NCAA college teams like UCLA, Oklahoma, Texas, etc.
Soccer is what's going on at the World Cup. That's not football. It's a bunch of guys in short pants running back and forth and that's about the extent of it. Hardly any scoring. Hard for fans to stay awake through the entire match.
There is a lot of exciting news in the world of sports now but it isn't in soccer. The NBA basketball free agent class is amazing this year. Where will LeBron James, Chris Bosh, and Dwyane Wade sign? Sports fans are eagerly awaiting the news.
And the Tour de France is underway now. Can Lance Armstrong win again at the ripe old age of 38? Seems unlikely but he's an amazing athlete. So are his rivals: Bradley Wiggins, Contador, the Schleck brothers, etc. This is looking like it may be one of the best tours ever.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 5, 2010 4:22:13 GMT
Incidentally, could we all agree to just call it 'Football' and ignore this 'football and/or soccer' stuff'. There is only one nation that qualified for the World Cup who would call the game 'soccer'. I think that maybe the rest of the world should just get them told. We shouldn't need to pander to them.
I'd like to have free speech reign on this thread at least and so feel free to call football football and BushAdmirer is free to call soccer soccer!
I seem to remember hearing somewhere that there is "soccer" in England which is different from what Americans call soccer! With all due respect to the English and American language i will continue to use the dual lingo football/soccer, if i have to, but i'll try to avoid this by saying simply "World Cup". |
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 5, 2010 4:28:06 GMT
Here is a thought that is only rarely thunk: Thank God for Random Voice. I was beginning to think that it was me who was being difficult or petty or something. thanks also to Fretty for posting the flags with comments. Anna, do you get it yet?
Part of my family is of Irish Catholic descent and the history has given the union jack a hideous reputation in Irish history! I never denied that team England uses the English flag and not the union jack! Since some of their fans feel good about waving the union jack, my relatives would be glad to have the union jack hoisted down and sent to them. Burning flags is rather silly!  southafrica-pig.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htmlMore naughty naughty English fans displaying the union jack and they should have it! |
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Post by alanseago on Jul 5, 2010 8:42:20 GMT
I suppose, to be pedantic, soccer is an abbreviation of association football. The Football Association, commonly referred to as the FA, controls English professional football. I don't remember if this includes Wales.
This means that 'soccer' can only be played in England. Elsewhere it is fifaball.
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 5, 2010 10:32:14 GMT
C'mon riotgrrl. Football is played by NFL teams like the New England Patriots and the Houston Texans. It's also popular with NCAA college teams like UCLA, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. I think you will find that game is called 'American Football' or Grid Iron. Soccer is what's going on at the World Cup. That's not football. Er, I think you will find that the game being at the World cup is called football by most Countries. 'Soccer' is the name given by one Country, but the other 196 called it by its real name. Your usage is in the minority and most people refer to 'soccer' as football. |
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Post by alanseago on Jul 5, 2010 12:33:40 GMT
The English have no name for football, as the French have no name for entriponoor, Germans cannot say burrgurr and british yokels can't say War sess tor Shyre.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 5, 2010 14:30:57 GMT
C'mon riotgrrl. Football is played by NFL teams like the New England Patriots and the Houston Texans. It's also popular with NCAA college teams like UCLA, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. I think you will find that game is called 'American Football' or Grid Iron. Soccer is what's going on at the World Cup. That's not football. Er, I think you will find that the game being at the World cup is called football by the decent Countries. 'Soccer' is the name given by one Country, but the other 196 called it by it's real name. The fact that backward Americans are unable to make the distinction is no real excuse. Your people hate real sports that is fine by me, but if you are attempting to use the English language, you should at least try and learn simple words. |
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Post by Big Lin on Jul 5, 2010 14:44:44 GMT
It has quite a lot of ancestors and one of its earliest is the Roman game of harpastum (think I remembered it right!)
Basically NFL is a wimped-down version of Rugby. Rugby is ALSO often referred to as football just to add to the confusion!
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Post by Riotgrrlnotloggedin on Jul 5, 2010 14:50:08 GMT
In Germany the game at the World Cup is called "Fussball" and not "football"! It's really silly to make an issue out of this! Let it be called soccer in the American language! In Gaelic it's Sacar ( ga.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacar )! Big Deal! [/color][/size][/quote] Eh . . that's because fuss is the German for foot. In other words, it is called football, but in German. Wasn't aware that there was such a thing as the 'American language'. One lives, one learns. |
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 5, 2010 15:41:00 GMT
It's really silly to make an issue out of this! You miss the point again, Anna. I have no objection to anyone in America calling football 'Soccer' or anything else. Nobody would expect someone in New York to use the term 'American dollars' when buying pizza, for example, nor should we expect them to 'The American president' either. Context is everything. By the same token in America American Football is called football and that is fair enough. My objection is down to the fact that BA thinks that because in his Country 'American Football' is called 'football' in his Country that the rest of the World should have to change the the name 'football' to soccer just because some dumb ass Amercians are too stupid to understand that the rest of the World understand the term football to mean 'football' and not grid Iron. You wouldn't be very pleased if we expected Americans changed the name of baseball to rounders, so we would have a clue what we are talking about? Surely it is not unreasonable for us to make the leap to work out that baseball means a big game of rounders? |
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 5, 2010 15:43:00 GMT
More naughty naughty English fans displaying the union jack and they should have it! Anna, you need to try and pick your reference point a bit better. |
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Post by alanseago on Jul 5, 2010 16:01:45 GMT
Don't forget schooldays and netball. Those short skirts, white socks and plimsolls. My first girlfriend was a regular player so I had to go and watch.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 5, 2010 16:12:55 GMT
It's really silly to make an issue out of this! You miss the point again, Anna. I have no objection to anyone in America calling football 'Soccer' or anything else. Nobody would expect someone in New York to use the term 'American dollars' when buying pizza, for example, nor should we expect them to 'The American president' either. Context is everything. By the same token in America American Football is called football and that is fair enough. My objection is down to the fact that BA thinks that because in his Country 'American Football' is called 'football' in his Country that the rest of the World should have to change the the name 'football' to soccer just because some dumb ass Amercians are too stupid to understand that the rest of the World understand the term football to mean 'football' and not grid Iron. You wouldn't be very pleased if we expected Americans changed the name of baseball to rounders, so we would have a clue what we are talking about? Surely it is not unreasonable for us to make the leap to work out that baseball means a big game of rounders?
I suspect BA is a bit of a tease, like i am, and likes to get some lively discussion going here! But i'll let him speak for himself!
I would be delightfully amused if you insisted that baseball be called Rounders! Maybe it should be called Lapka because the Russians have a baseball type game, which preceded baseball! I support non-abusive free speech, even for those who wish to alter or limit it!
I do seem to get the impression that World Cup fans are more sensitive about their sport than fans for other sports!
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 5, 2010 16:20:40 GMT
I suspect BA is a bit of a tease, like i am, and likes to get some lively discussion going here! But i'll let him speak for himself!
There is no tease in declaring himself a halfwit. We knew that already. The idea that he is completely unaware that every other Country on planet calls football plain old football, is no surprise to me.
I do seem to get the impression that World Cup fans are more sensitive about their sport than fans for other sports!
Where do you that impression from? We are quite happy with our level of recognition for our sport. No other team sport gets anything like levels that football gets. I think you and BA are just jealous that Basketball and baseball are not World sports like football. |
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 5, 2010 16:22:51 GMT
It has quite a lot of ancestors and one of its earliest is the Roman game of harpastum (think I remembered it right!) Basically NFL is a wimped-down version of Rugby. Rugby is ALSO often referred to as football just to add to the confusion!
People have been killed playing US football!
It does seem like a lot of UK residents like these even more dangerous "extreme sports" that can kill a healthy person or turn him/her into a cripple! I modestly maintain than non-touch rugby and also tackle US football discriminate against safety minded people and girlie girls, who like sports! |
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 5, 2010 16:36:48 GMT
I suspect BA is a bit of a tease, like i am, and likes to get some lively discussion going here! But i'll let him speak for himself!
There is no tease in declaring himself a halfwit. We knew that already. The idea that he is completely unaware that every other Country on planet calls football plain old football, is no surprise to me.
I do seem to get the impression that World Cup fans are more sensitive about their sport than fans for other sports!
Where do you that impression from? We are quite happy with our level of recognition for our sport. No other team sport gets anything like levels that football gets. I think you and BA are just jealous that Basketball and baseball are not World sports like football.
With all due respect you are dead wrong in your claim that the rest of the world calls World cup football "football"! The Japanese for instance call it "shuukyuu" www.eudict.com/?lang=japeng&word=shuukyuu
I'm sure the Chinese and Koreans have a word for football, which harmonizes with their language too!
I'll let BA speak for himself! He sure gets your blood pressure up! |
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 5, 2010 16:54:53 GMT
With all due respect you are dead wrong in your claim that the rest of the world calls World cup football "football"! The Japanese for instance call it "shuukyuu" ] Yeah, English is not their language! Surely you can grasp that? Football is an English word. The term is translated into different languages, read what RG has said. I am quite prepared to accept that the word 'foot' is different in other languages as is 'ball'. What is the problem? Football is a World Wide sport and therefor it's name is translated into different languages!!!!! Sheesh!!! |
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Post by alanseago on Jul 5, 2010 17:21:16 GMT
Fédération internationale de football association.
There should be something for everyone in there. My view is call it whatever you wish, wave whatever you wish (within the bounds of decency) Over here they talk about le fute, le Grande Prix de Moto, la boxe le catch etc.
They wave all sort of things!
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 5, 2010 17:43:14 GMT
Here is a link to Japan's governing body: www.jfa.or.jp/eng/The 'F' stands for 'Football'. Hope that helps. |
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 5, 2010 18:46:33 GMT
Here is a link to Japan's governing body: www.jfa.or.jp/eng/The 'F' stands for 'Football'. Hope that helps.
True when the Japanese translate their word for the game played at the World Cup into UK English it's football-so you get a half point for that observation! If they make a webpage for US fans they would use the word soccer-e.g.
( www.japanesesoccer.net/wordpress/ ) ! You get a half point too for the observation that "Fussball" translates directly into football, but of course Germans often use the import word football to describe US football.
The Japanese word for football is of course:
"shuukyuu"
I looked up
A ) foot= fi-to, ashi
B ) ball= butoukai, koumaru, bo-ru, tama, tama, mari
Can't find a foot or a ball in their word. |
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Post by june on Jul 5, 2010 19:00:51 GMT
I suppose, to be pedantic, soccer is an abbreviation of association football. The Football Association, commonly referred to as the FA, controls English professional football. I don't remember if this includes Wales. This means that 'soccer' can only be played in England. Elsewhere it is fifaball. Snork! ;D |
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