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Post by riotgrrl on Jun 30, 2010 7:41:29 GMT
depends if they are long standing citizens... but the English like the Scots and Welsh know their own flag I'm just a little puzzled because Riotgrrl said the union flag wasn't appropriate in relation to English football/soccer. I'm sure a sport team from Texas would have no problem with the US flag next to the Texas state flag. champions-league-betting.com/sexy-football-fans.html QUOTE: British fans outside the stadium before the England vs. France match at the Euro 2004 in Portugal. UNQUOTE I understand that the Union Jack is taboo for Scottish, Welsh and Irish fans, but the fans for team England always seem to bring it to the matches. Are they "inappropriate? Yes, as Random has explained, it is inappropriate. It is also offensive to many people, who find it belittling and ignorant when the clear distinction between 'England' and 'The UK'/'Britain' is not made. When ignorant people continued to call Yugoslavia 'Serbia' after the formation of the Yugoslavian state, the Croatians used to find that excluding and offensive too. The assumption that the English interest is the same thing as the British interest is just one of the reasons why Scottish people have been fighting for their own Parliament and a measure of devolution or independence since, well since 1707 if not earlier (when the common people opposed the Union between Scotland and England.)
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 30, 2010 22:41:09 GMT
Brazil 3 : 0 Chile Netherlands 2 : 1 Slovakia As expected the Netherlands and Brazil advance! Friday and Saturday the teams below will either advance or be eliminated.
Upcoming matches - Quarter-finals: Netherlands vs. Brazil - 2 July Uruguay vs. Ghana - 2 July Argentina vs. Germany - 3 July Paraguay vs. Spain - 3 July
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 1, 2010 2:36:18 GMT
I still don't understand why the Union Jack flag is inappropriate at team England football/soccer games, especially since pro team England fans often display it. Nevertheless i'm posting this team England fan in to compensate for the outrage that the display of the Union Jack caused.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 1, 2010 7:18:14 GMT
I still don't understand why the Union Jack flag is inappropriate at team England football/soccer games, especially since pro team England fans often display it. How can you not understand when it's been explained to you in detail? The Union Jack is not the flag of England. That some England fans are so badly educated, arrogant or ignorant that they choose to use it does not mean it's ok. If you genuinely are unable to comprehend why Welsh, Irish and Scottish people find it offensive when the British interest and the English interest are regarded as being the same thing, then you obviously don't understand patriotism or national pride.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 1, 2010 7:20:05 GMT
And Tito was not Serbian. His parents were (iirc) a Slovene and a Croat.
And the cartoon is a comment on British politics, so the use of the Union flag there is appropriate.
Apart from that . . . .
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Post by alanseago on Jul 1, 2010 8:50:14 GMT
We are no as concerned about what is appropriate or inappropriate over here. I am English with a British passport living in France. At various times I will hang out a Union jack, the St. George's flag the tricolour or the EU flag. I will defend my right to wave whichever flag I wish. I do not make a point of not being something.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 1, 2010 8:56:18 GMT
We are no as concerned about what is appropriate or inappropriate over here. I am English with a British passport living in France. At various times I will hang out a Union jack, the St. George's flag the tricolour or the EU flag. I will defend my right to wave whichever flag I wish. I do not make a point of not being something. So take it you fly the Saltire too?
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Post by alanseago on Jul 1, 2010 10:54:05 GMT
Why? I have no connection with Scotland except as a part of Great Britain.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 1, 2010 11:52:38 GMT
Why? I have no connection with Scotland except as a part of Great Britain. So, how does that sit with your earlier statement that you do not make a point of not being something? You're not Scottish, so why would you fly the saltire? Well of course. I'm not English, so why would I fly the St Georges Cross? Of course I shouldn't. Why the snidey wee remark about not making a point of not being something then? Why the confusion as to why it is inappropriate to fly the wrong flag?
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Post by alanseago on Jul 1, 2010 12:37:53 GMT
You asked If I ever fly the saltire, I answered. I did not ask you why you do not fly the flag of St George. I said, I will happily fly, the tricolour.I do not make a point of not being French. No confusion, I do not consider it to be inappropriate to fly the wrong flag, I do not classify things as appropriate or inappropriate. That is simply a devious way of imposing ones values upon others.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 1, 2010 19:48:08 GMT
I do not classify things as appropriate or inappropriate. That is simply a devious way of imposing ones values upon others. Really? I think 'inappropriate' is quite a nice way of saying 'offensive and ignorant' without actually having to be that rude.
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Post by june on Jul 1, 2010 20:03:59 GMT
England V India was a cricket match and Scotland and Wales do not have National teams as far as I am aware - so if you are a Scottish cricket fan you can chose who to follow at national level.
I am irked that as an English person I have no Parliament representing me and no National anthem either!
I am displeased that the English are assumed to be happy just to have the British stuff applied to them. We are a country in our own right and should be seen as that.
I am also a bit sniffy about the English team wearing blue in their kit, red and white is the colour of our flag.
The only reason I am glad to be British is because Wales and Scotland have the good sense to vote socialist. If that were not the case I would be forced to move.
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Post by june on Jul 1, 2010 20:06:07 GMT
I'm not sure why you think the cartoon shows confusion - Mr Brown was the Prime Minister of Great Britain - so the flag is correct
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Post by june on Jul 1, 2010 20:08:05 GMT
I still don't understand why the Union Jack flag is inappropriate at team England football/soccer games, especially since pro team England fans often display it. How can you not understand when it's been explained to you in detail? The Union Jack is not the flag of England. That some England fans are so badly educated, arrogant or ignorant that they choose to use it does not mean it's ok. If you genuinely are unable to comprehend why Welsh, Irish and Scottish people find it offensive when the British interest and the English interest are regarded as being the same thing, then you obviously don't understand patriotism or national pride. To be fair Riotgrrl - it is only in the last 5 years or so you have been able to get a Cross Of St George flag easily.
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Post by june on Jul 1, 2010 20:17:25 GMT
I do not classify things as appropriate or inappropriate. That is simply a devious way of imposing ones values upon others. Really? I think 'inappropriate' is quite a nice way of saying 'offensive and ignorant' without actually having to be that rude. I see nothing wrong with saying "I feel that remark is offensive and ignorant"
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Post by alanseago on Jul 1, 2010 21:25:01 GMT
So is it offensive or ignorant to wave a Union Flag? Offensive to whom? Many years ago, my son rode around with a South Korean flag fluttering behind his bicycle. No-one complained. There were, of course, no pretentious or pseudo-nationalist North Koreans about.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 1, 2010 23:55:22 GMT
So is it offensive or ignorant to wave a Union Flag? Offensive to whom? Many years ago, my son rode around with a South Korean flag fluttering behind his bicycle. No-one complained. There were, of course, no pretentious or pseudo-nationalist North Koreans about. Unless your son was representing England in the South Korean bike-racing championship, you've kind of missed the entire point here.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 2, 2010 4:39:35 GMT
So is it offensive or ignorant to wave a Union Flag? Offensive to whom? Many years ago, my son rode around with a South Korean flag fluttering behind his bicycle. No-one complained. There were, of course, no pretentious or pseudo-nationalist North Koreans about. Unless your son was representing England in the South Korean bike-racing championship, you've kind of missed the entire point here. The picture above is a recreation of the battle of Freeman's Farm ( Saratoga ), which occured during the US War for Independence. I'm amazed at the English/British ability to create so many diverse flags for each colony, etc. etc.. I honestly have no idea if any of the flags for King George the III's troops as depicted above ( only a small sample of existing British empire flags ) would be offensive to English fans at a team England match. Maybe Mike, Lin, AlphaHooligan and other UK citizens could add their input. It's news to me that English fans may in part at least be offended by the Union Jack!
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