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Post by Big Lin on Aug 30, 2010 16:16:24 GMT
I'm going to have to post a separate thread explaining the FUNDAMENTAL difference between what is 'halal,' 'wajik,' 'maribuh,' 'mubah' and 'makauk'. FGM is 'makauk' in Islam, by the way. Incidentally, even though the hadiths ARE considered part of the 'sunnah,' they are NOT accorded the SAME degree of authority as the Qur'an and if they clash with the Qur'an then THAT takes precedence even over the hadiths! Dearest Lin! It's certainly not my intention to make Muslims or any single religion or group collectively guilty of FGM! The Shiite Muslims seem to have nothing to do with this practice! My favorite Muslims the Sufis and Dervishs also have nothing to do with this torture and mutilation.
Christianity, Judaiism and Islam spread to Africa, but haven't suceeded in freeing their converts from this evil Pharao tradition. I suspect that the African religions in these regions, e.g. animism, etc. also are guilty of FGM, but aren't held to the same moral standard.
Kurdistan seems to have succumbed to a deviant Sunnite sect, which practices FGM. The Berbers in parts of Saudi Arabia have also retained this horrible practice. Many Indonesian Sunnites practice a less extensive mutilation ( www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=3.1.197409597 ). Whether this is an export of Pharoism or the creation of deviant sects or both is hard to say. It's NOT true that FGM is approved of by Islam. MOST imams and Muslim scholars believe that the Qur'an CONDEMNS it. Nor is it true that most FGM is practised by most Muslims, nor indeed that most of those who DO practice it ARE Muslims. The most frequent practitioners of it ARE the animist tribal religions in Africa. To suggest that FGM is approved of by Islam, still less required, is to show ignorance of the facts. It also creates a false perception of the practice among non-Muslims and in particular of the attitude towards it by Muslims. That makes the furorer about it at best ignorant and at worst deliberately misleading.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 30, 2010 21:23:13 GMT
Many governments in Africa have put a legal ban on FGM ( as well as cruel practices that male children suffer-incision, etc.). When i first started this thread i was somewhat misled about the extent of FGM in Islam. I would regard these FGM sects in Kurdistan and Indonesia as not representative of Islam and hope they will be marginalised and lose their respect and influence at least. The YouTube video below ( warning: very disturbing scenes ) also shows that the most prominent leaders in Islam condemn this Pharonic practice. In Africa it seems to be more of a tribal custom and attempts are constantly made to reeducate the people. The tribal elders unfortunately continue to spread their pagan superstitions supportive of FGM.
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Post by mouse on Aug 31, 2010 6:02:21 GMT
thanks for the map and info Anna....
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 31, 2010 9:17:31 GMT
thanks for the map and info Anna.... Hi Mouse! Sadly the government bans in most of these countries haven't deterred this practice significantly, but it's a positive step at least. The governments in Somalia and Mali still resist legislation against FGM. The Sudanese government has made a ban on FGM more difficult by legislatively legalising the Sunna form of this barbaric violation of human rights. www.e-joussour.net/en/node/3705
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Post by mouse on Aug 31, 2010 9:26:03 GMT
any step is a move in the right direction..i would like to see a great deal more posivity though perhaps a tie in with aid...every year wasted is another life ruined or ended polititians dance around these issues. and in the west there is so much they could do if they had the will....some real punishments meted out on the heads of those who apply and involve them selves in FGM... stop with the wishy washy aproach
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Post by mouse on Aug 31, 2010 9:26:28 GMT
any step is a move in the right direction..i would like to see a great deal more posivity though perhaps a tie in with aid...every year wasted is another life ruined or ended polititians dance around these issues. and in the west there is so much they could do if they had the will....some real punishments meted out on the heads of those who apply and involve them selves in FGM... stop with the wishy washy aproach
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Post by sadie1263 on Aug 31, 2010 20:57:23 GMT
I definitely think they need to stop with the wishy washy approach. It should be tied in with any type of aid. The thing is if it had anything to do with men's genital mutilation you can bet they would be talking about it and doing something about it.
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Post by fretslider on Aug 31, 2010 20:58:19 GMT
I definitely think they need to stop with the wishy washy approach. It should be tied in with any type of aid. The thing is if it had anything to do with men's genital mutilation you can bet they would be talking about it and doing something about it. And the Jews....
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Post by sadie1263 on Aug 31, 2010 22:34:55 GMT
Touche' Fret.........
This really doesn't compare though.......if they were cutting men's penis' specifically to keep them from ever experiencing enjoyment of sex....and mutilating their genitals maybe......whereas......I can see where some can say circumcision is mutilating....it does not prevent a man from enjoying sex.
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Post by fretslider on Sept 1, 2010 9:02:59 GMT
Touche' Fret......... This really doesn't compare though.......if they were cutting men's penis' specifically to keep them from ever experiencing enjoyment of sex....and mutilating their genitals maybe......whereas......I can see where some can say circumcision is mutilating....it does not prevent a man from enjoying sex. Point taken, Sadie. I was just being mischievous. The only occasion a circumcision should be carried out in males is if there is a problem with the foreskin. Obviously in a female the most common problems tend to occur with the labia, not the clitoris.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 7:24:15 GMT
This subject has been in the news again lately. Does it ever end? LINK I find is shocking that the numbers are so high, and how this can still be happening.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 25, 2015 7:47:17 GMT
This subject has been in the news again lately. Does it ever end? LINK I find is shocking that the numbers are so high, and how this can still be happening. We should at least start slapping countries that allow female genital mutilation with economic sanctions. Another barbaric aspect of FGM is that the victims of this are more vulnerable to STD infections.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jul 17, 2015 20:32:00 GMT
Quite so, firedancer. But why are we still giving the men some sort of excuse by referring to these practices as female circumcision? Female genital mutilation (FGM) is more accurate. (How long, I wonder, before the post asserting that it is the women in these cultures who insist on subjecting their daughters to this?) Agreed Jean! Yes! The so called "female circumsion" is genital mutilation-the amputation of the clitoris, etc.! The only reason i had to use "circumsion" in the thread title was because a title with "genital mutilation" exceded the allowed amount of letters and so i begrudgingly used the shorter PC term for this cruel horror!It is indeed a horror Anna, there is no good reason to have this procedure carried out. My heart goes out to all females who have been subjected to this barbaric custom.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jul 17, 2015 21:45:28 GMT
I am not a fan of any religion - far from it. But I think this is worth quoting Is FGC part of a religion? Although many people believe that FGC is associated with Islam, it is not. FGC is not supported by any religion and is condemned by many religious leaders. The practice crosses religious barriers. Muslims, Christians, and Jews have been known to support FGC on their girls.
No religious text requires or even supports cutting female genitals. In fact, Islamic Shari'a protects children and protects their rights. From a Christian perspective, FGC has no religious grounds either. In fact, research shows that the relationship between religion and FGC is inconsistent at best.
However, even though religious texts don’t support FGC, some people still think the two are linked and claim religious teachings support FGC.
In six of the countries where FGC is practiced — Ethiopia, Cote d'Ivoire, Kenya, Senegal, Benin, and Ghana — Muslim population groups are more likely to practice FGC than Christian groups. In Nigeria, Tanzania, and Niger, though, the prevalence is greater among Christian groups.Source: FGMBecause FGM in the UK mainly involves Muslims it is too easy to conflate the two. But it is a problem of ignorance and dehuminisation of females - something that many religions display and encourage and pretty much all so-called primitive cultures. * FGC - (female genital cutting) another alternative name for FGM. Hi Firedamcer, Whatever the case may be, as far as I am concerned FGM should not be practised at all. The female body is made that way evidently for a reason, so why tamper with that, especially since so many people die as a result of this barbaric ritual No wonder we get the impression that men look upon women as playthings or just for bearing children, and that is definitely not good. Is sexual gratification only meant for men? By the practice of FGM it would seem so.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jul 18, 2015 0:11:31 GMT
I am not a fan of any religion - far from it. But I think this is worth quoting Is FGC part of a religion? Although many people believe that FGC is associated with Islam, it is not. FGC is not supported by any religion and is condemned by many religious leaders. The practice crosses religious barriers. Muslims, Christians, and Jews have been known to support FGC on their girls.
No religious text requires or even supports cutting female genitals. In fact, Islamic Shari'a protects children and protects their rights. From a Christian perspective, FGC has no religious grounds either. In fact, research shows that the relationship between religion and FGC is inconsistent at best.
However, even though religious texts don’t support FGC, some people still think the two are linked and claim religious teachings support FGC.
In six of the countries where FGC is practiced — Ethiopia, Cote d'Ivoire, Kenya, Senegal, Benin, and Ghana — Muslim population groups are more likely to practice FGC than Christian groups. In Nigeria, Tanzania, and Niger, though, the prevalence is greater among Christian groups.Source: FGMBecause FGM in the UK mainly involves Muslims it is too easy to conflate the two. But it is a problem of ignorance and dehuminisation of females - something that many religions display and encourage and pretty much all so-called primitive cultures. * FGC - (female genital cutting) another alternative name for FGM. Hi Firedamcer, whatever the case may be, it is a barbaric ritual and should definitely not be practised. No matter what. That happens to be how females are born, so there must be a reason for it. Do females have to go through the suffering of having this procedure imposed on them for no good reason that I can see. No wonder, women get the feeling that they are just sexual playthings for men. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership, but it doesn't look as if this is the case when this atrocity is still happening. And women are plain stupid if they continue to go along with this horrific ritual.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 15, 2016 15:15:27 GMT
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Mar 24, 2017 14:42:15 GMT
The chart shows that FGM is mostly performed by Muslims. Coptic Christians African Catholics + African Animists are gulty of it too. www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/02/female-genital-mutilation-not-uniquely-muslim-problem QUOTE: Genital Mutilation Is Not a Uniquely Muslim Problem The Independent reports that about 5,000 girls and women in Britain are subjected to female genital mutilation each year: "FGM is carried out for cultural, religious and social reasons within families and communities where it is believed to be a necessary preparation for adulthood and marriage." Ian Tuttle is exasperated by their kid-glove treatment of the practice:
True. But which cultures? Which religions? Hint: It’s not Anglicans....Let’s be frank: FGM is not spontaneously afflicting preteen and teenage girls; it’s not an illness being randomly caught. It’s a barbarous act being perpetrated by parents of young girls in specific and identifiable cultural/religious groups. Refusing to acknowledge that reality does not help to protect vulnerable women; it aids those who seek to repress them.
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