|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Nov 8, 2009 23:34:18 GMT
|
|
|
Post by beth on Nov 9, 2009 0:21:12 GMT
Frankly das, I think people who try to spread this kind of propaganda to stir up fear and hate are beyond scary . . . probably dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by Liberator on Nov 9, 2009 3:20:21 GMT
and there we were taken in by American pretence to believe in religious feeedom and equality. Das shows us what religio-fascist liars they are!
|
|
|
Post by Ben Lomond on Nov 9, 2009 16:41:58 GMT
Why should the fact that the President follows the particular faith of Islam (if indeed it is true) make the slightest difference? Why should Christians act as though only THEY follow the correct faith? Would you feel the same if Obama admitted to being an atheist; or do you save your spleen for Muslims per se? And finally. do you not recognise that such prejudice is the mark of the ignorant?
|
|
|
Post by beth on Nov 9, 2009 17:23:02 GMT
I may not need to point this out, but that video has been set up with out of context content, clipped to misrepresent what is being said. It's an example of the lies and distortions that are pushed in our faces by the right-wing propaganda machine. Not worthy of you, das.
|
|
|
Post by Liberator on Nov 9, 2009 21:58:27 GMT
It's the same as when they were trying to make out that he was Kenyan-born they made an enormous fuss over some transcript of a parliamentary meeting that referred to him along lines of one of their own. One only hopes that there are enough intelligent Americans around to how how anybody perpetrating this nonsense is either a fool or a liar and probably both
|
|
|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Nov 9, 2009 23:12:24 GMT
Why should the fact that the President follows the particular faith of Islam (if indeed it is true) make the slightest difference? Why should Christians act as though only THEY follow the correct faith? Would you feel the same if Obama admitted to being an atheist; or do you save your spleen for Muslims per se? And finally. do you not recognise that such prejudice is the mark of the ignorant? I'm an atheist myself Ben. I've got zero respect for any and every religious fanatic. The indisputable fact here is that Obama is sucking up to Muslims. I don't want my President doing that.
|
|
|
Post by Liberator on Nov 10, 2009 0:48:52 GMT
Muslims deserve the same respect as anybody else. I have never liked the way Britain sucks up to Americans or way the USA sucks up to terrorism in the name of Jews who mostly have as good a sense as the majority of Muslims to deplore what the Zionist colony does in their name.
|
|
|
Post by chefmate on Nov 10, 2009 2:53:06 GMT
Why should the fact that the President follows the particular faith of Islam (if indeed it is true) make the slightest difference? Why should Christians act as though only THEY follow the correct faith? Would you feel the same if Obama admitted to being an atheist; or do you save your spleen for Muslims per se? And finally. do you not recognise that such prejudice is the mark of the ignorant? I'm an atheist myself Ben. I've got zero respect for any and every religious fanatic. The indisputable fact here is that Obama is sucking up to Muslims. I don't want my President doing that. AMEN. This is not the time to be putting Muslims in high powers after 9/11 and the mass murder at Fort Hood. I bet the Germans wouldn't put up with a Nazy sympathizer in high government
|
|
|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Nov 10, 2009 3:26:26 GMT
@chefmate said: "This is not the time to be putting Muslims in high powers after 9/11 and the mass murder at Fort Hood. I bet the Germans wouldn't put up with a Nazy sympathizer in high government
Precisely correct. Obama seems to be operating under the mistaken impression that sucking up to Muslims is somehow going to make them tolerant of us infidels. He's sadly mistaken.
|
|
|
Post by beez0811 on Nov 10, 2009 3:45:48 GMT
We are "infidels" to them no matter what. No matter what Obama tries to do, it isn't going to work. The people he is trying to convince don't see the flaws in the way they act. I'll straight up admit that no one on this planet is perfect.
I don't really know what real faith is since the "church" he went to was sooo not Christian. The "blame the white man" crap (from that "church" Obama and family attended for quite a while) or "They practice Islam? They're going to go to Hell!" (the crazy religious right) is not how God wants us to be toward each other.
|
|
|
Post by chefmate on Nov 10, 2009 14:57:06 GMT
What would this damn world do if suddenly the Americans stopped caring and bailing out everyone's arse? Maybe it's time to leave people alone to starve to death, live under dictatorships that kill their own citizens and save our money and resources for ourselves and the rest of the world be damned.
I don't bother Muslims, although I have to wonder why an American woman would submit herself to such garbage and run around town with a rag on her fool head, but that is their business but I don't want devout Muslims in government running the show......excuse me, what's next? Maybe some Palestinians, Nazi's and throw in a few of the KKK for good measure to keep Obama in line?
|
|
|
Post by Big Lin on Nov 10, 2009 17:51:01 GMT
@chefmate said: "This is not the time to be putting Muslims in high powers after 9/11 and the mass murder at Fort Hood. I bet the Germans wouldn't put up with a Nazy sympathizer in high government Precisely correct. Obama seems to be operating under the mistaken impression that sucking up to Muslims is somehow going to make them tolerant of us infidels. He's sadly mistaken. Governments can make two opposite mistakes in their foreign policy. One is to follow the path of appeasement. Sucking up to Muslims, as you put it, though the same principle applies whoever it is that the government is being weak towards. I'm against that and I believe that (in the words of Rudyard Kipling: 'if you start paying the Danegeld, you'll never get rid of the Dane.') The other is to demonise ALL members of a particular ethnic group, religious persuasion or political leaning. That too doesn't work as history shows us clearly. The majority of Muslims do NOT support terrorism and are NOT religious fundamentalists. The majority of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists don't either. Now I'm going to make a personal observation. I don't like Obama and I don't think he was the right choice in 2008 - McCain ought to have become the President. I don't think he's proved to be a good choice since he came to office. In general I prefer the Republicans to the Democrats with some individual exceptions on both sides. Even so, it's as big a lie to call Obama a Muslim as it is to make out that he wasn't born in America. Nor is it true to regard his foreign policy as being based on the idea of appeasing Muslims. It's based on the idea of trying to be even-handed and on that basis it has not been followed in practice. He has made no serious attempt to rein in the lunatic Netanyahu in Israel and has made no serious attempt beyond a few vague noises to control the mad mullahs of Iran. Basically he thinks that soundbites are a substitute for action. There are enough GOOD reasons to oppose and dislike Obama WITHOUT inventing lies to criticise him. For what it's worth the most pro-terrorist President the US ever had was Ronald Reagan. He LOVED terrorists and spent most of his presidency arming and funding them. The IRA were so pleased with his fund-raising activities on their behalf that they baked a special 'thank you' cake for him. He also funded and armed the Taliban and Al-Qaida. He also armed and funded the Nicaraguan contras. He was also behind the coup in Grenada and then, when even he suddenly realised the guys he'd put in place were worse than Maurice Bishop, invaded to cover up his own embarrassment. He sold arms to the mad mullahs in Iran to free the US hostages and was thus directly responsible for encouraging them. He also sold arms to Saddam Hussein. Quite apart from being a moron, and for following a domestic policy based on creating what at the time was a record budget deficit - and an entirely artificially created one to give him an excuse to attack Medicaire and other programmes that at least TRIED to help the people - simply so that he could stealf from the poor to pay the rich, his foreign policy was a total disgrace. The guy was nothing more than a conscious traitor - just like Eisenhower, Nixon, Clinton. Cheney and Rumsfeld (who hoodwinked that naive but well-meaning GW Bush into following all kinds of stupid and treasonable policies.)
|
|
|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Nov 11, 2009 1:59:57 GMT
Lin - You have some rather extreme views on Reagan and Bush that I disagree with. However, this thread is about Obama appeasing Muslims and I think we should not veer off in another direction (in this thread). The quotes in that video are not 'voice overs.' they're actual Obama quotes.
It is true that most Muslims don't share extremist/terrorist views. But it is also very disappointing to learn that most of them consider loyalty to their religion more important than loyalty to their country.
America has welcomed immigrants since the beginning. But a core principle has been putting America first. We would welcome Italians, Irishmen, Brits, Chinese, Mexicans, Germans, Japanese, Iranians, Koreans, Vietnamese, Indians, Pakistanis, etc. Come one come all. But the one caveat is that you must pledge loyalty to America if you want to immigrate here, become a permanent resident, and ultimately become a US Citizen.
What's different about the current immigration environment is that we have a lot of Mexican immigrants who don't want to be permanently assimilated. They want to live here, work here, and then go back to Mexico with their earnings to have a better life there. They're not seeking permanent immigration.
In the case of Muslims the problem is that they don't want to pledge allegiance to America over Islam. To the contrary, they want government to submit to Islam. They think Imams should rank higher than government officials. Their priorities put Islam ahead of secular government, Sharia law ahead of our laws, and their culture and customs ahead of our customs (example: Head coverings, prayer rugs in schools, etc.).
That's not going to work here.
|
|
|
Post by beth on Nov 11, 2009 4:23:53 GMT
Quote: The quotes in that video are not 'voice overs.' they're actual Obama quotes.
ah . . . spin at it's best. Of course they are not voice-overs, das, the video is a clip and paste job, leaving out the parts that put those quotes into context and certainly DO change the meaning from what is represented here. You're a smart guy. You know this. I'm sorry you believe it's that easy to mislead us.
|
|
|
Post by Liberator on Nov 11, 2009 4:58:03 GMT
Maybe you should start thinking of 'Mulilms' as human beings with a belief instead of your witch-hunt fantasy. On that score there is no differnece at all between sicko 'christian' or 'feminist' psycho filth and those using the name of Islam to justify their exemption from equlaity. They are all the same shit calling themselves by different names and I hope they all die the way their filth has planned for each other.
|
|
|
Post by Big Lin on Nov 11, 2009 17:27:16 GMT
Maybe you should start thinking of 'Mulilms' as human beings with a belief instead of your witch-hunt fantasy. On that score there is no differnece at all between sicko 'christian' or 'feminist' psycho filth and those using the name of Islam to justify their exemption from equlaity. They are all the same shit calling themselves by different names and I hope they all die the way their filth has planned for each other. Ratarsed, please STOP dragging your caricature of feminism into this thread (just as you do on so many others at the slightest excuse.) Most Muslims neither support nor engage in terrorism and most aren't even fundamentalists. Neither do most feminists think like Andrea Dworkin any more than most Christians think like Timothy McVeigh or most Jews like the Kahanist lunatics. Maybye YOU should start thinking of feminists, Jews, Christians and anyone else you disagree with as human beings rather than as Aunt Sallies for your buckets of vitriol and distortion!
|
|
|
Post by Big Lin on Nov 11, 2009 17:30:13 GMT
Das, my views on Bush are that he was a good man but naive and totally manipulated by the conscious traitors Cheney and Rumsfeld.
As for Reagan, it's simply a FACT that he WAS the most pro-terrorist President the US has ever had.
Check out the facts instead of listening to propaganda!
You know I'm much more sympathetic to the Republicans than the Democrats but senile old Ronnie was (like Huckabee, Cheney and Rumsfeld) a RINO (Republican in name only)
It's a fact that Obama is NOT a Muslim.
I could string together quotes from Reagan and Cheney to prove that they were Communists!
Let's get back to reality!
|
|
|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Nov 13, 2009 0:46:33 GMT
Well Lin, we're going to part company on this topic. I like Bush, admire Cheney, and think Rumsfeld was one of our best Secretaries of Defense. Bush put together a great team. They did a great job. Of course, they succeeded Bill Clinton so doing a great job was relatively easy for them.
Reagan was a mover-shaker. He was a guy who didn't shirk from making controversial decisions. He wasn't trying to enhance his own popularity by basing his decisions on overnight poll results (as Clinton did). He was his own man and he is already going down in history as one of our greatest Presidents.
Obama might not be a Muslim. Or he may be a Muslim. No one really knows what the real Obama is made of. Did he attend Jeremiah Wright's controversial church every week because he's a devout Christian and a strong believer in Wright's preachings? I doubt that.
Now he's sucking up to Muslims as the video posted above clearly shows. Beth has complained that those videos are somehow not the real Obama. She may be correct in that no one really knows what the real Obama is made of. My best guess is plastic.
|
|
|
Post by beth on Nov 13, 2009 2:08:17 GMT
Quote: Now he's sucking up to Muslims as the video posted above clearly shows. Beth has complained that those videos are somehow not the real Obama. She may be correct in that no one really knows what the real Obama is made of. My best guess is plastic.
No das, that's not what Beth said. I said the video was a cut and paste job, out of context and misleading - just as your comment above. I think you're possibly stuck in a rut, trying to re frame everything to suit what you'd like people to believe. If you're really being honest about admiring Cheney and Rummy, you need to rethink. I agree somewhat with Lin - those guys were/are not real Republicans. Are you a neo-con (Project for the New American Century) admirer? All they've done is loot the country and offer up the GOP into the grasping hands of the neo-base - those radical right religious fanatics and Sarah Palin fans who are tearing your party apart, even as we type. Honest truth - if I thought the conservative movement could survive without these unevolved minions, I might re-join. But, as it is, they need the trolls' votes to win . . . well . . . anything. Sad.
|
|