♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 22, 2009 13:38:51 GMT
Dearest Gabriel, The only suspect on the list who is a proven serial killer is Chapman. He threatened at least one of his wives with beheading via a knife, which is something the ripper also tried, but with the exception of Mary Kelly could never completely accomplish!
Chapman is certainly a much more serious suspect than say Druitt! I can't imagine this lily white booarding school teacher leaving his safe Blackhearth to prowl the mean streets of WhiteChapel, where he would more likely become the victim. Only McNaughton's bias against mentally ill people and his conviction that the ripper would self destruct made Druitt a suspect-after his suicide. The fact that McNaughton destroyed his notes on Druitt is said to be a masonic conspiracy for the Druitt=ripper believers!
There's no garantee that the ripper is on the suspect list, but of the known suspects the Chapman=ripper theory is the most plausible!
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 22, 2009 13:48:53 GMT
This is the London Hospital in WhiteChapel, where D'Onston resided during the ripper murders. I agree with Gabriel that 45 is as a rule too late for a serial killer to get started. The link mentions that several of the medical students at the hospital were ripper suspects, as well as a patient ( D'Onston? ), but no names are given! ripperlocations.blogspot.com/ QUOTE: The London Hospital stands on the south side of Whitechapel Road in the very heart of Ripper territory. The hospital plays a large part in the story of the Whitechapel murders. Several of the medical students located here were among contemporary suspects, while another suspect who has emerged since, and who thrust himself into the investigation through articles written in the newspapers of the time, was an inmate here during the time of the murders.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 23, 2009 11:50:00 GMT
Klosowski no. Because he verbally threatened to cut one of his 'wives' with a knife does not turn him into Jack.
The night of the double event I believe holds the key to Jack. Stride is found by Diemschutz at 1am. At 1.45am Eddowes is found by PC Watkins. It's roughly one mile between the 2 sites. Jack is being driven by blood lust. He's actively hunting - I don't think he could have stopped himself. He was interrupted in his 1st kill, had to find another victim.
He does, and in that dim, dark, deserted square, does more damage to Eddowes' body than he'd done before. Then he leaves and we know he went through Gouldson St because a bit of Eddowes' apron was found there. He'd stopped to clean his knife on it. He was heading home. I'm sure of it. The geo profiling has him dwelling in Flower and Dean St and he's heading in the correct general direction.
But I just can't figure Jack living in Spitalfields and maybe that's a major mistake on my part. Don't know. He was a disorganized killer which means that he never really thought through where he would kill, when he would kill. He had enough brains to work out how to murder without being covered in blood. I don't think he had any medical knowledge. He just cut and slashed and took what he could remove. As a trophy, I'm guessing. Most of these serial killers do that.
He could approach the prostitutes and he had enough social skills to get them to come with him. However, considering most of them were off their faces with booze doesn't say much.
But I just don't think he was stupid enough to kill where he lived. I'm certain he was seen. He would have been taking an almighty chance to kill in the middle of the area he lived in. Maybe he did. I don't think so.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 23, 2009 12:15:15 GMT
Hi Anna. You do realise that Mitre Sq was in almost total darkness on a wet, cold autumn night? Jack wasn't leaving messages. He was getting his jollies cutting into flesh.'There was an incision on each side of the cheek which peeled up the skin and created a triangular flap'. No messages, no clues to his identity. Just a seriously disturbed serial killer attacking a female body while he has the chance.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 23, 2009 12:20:26 GMT
Klosowski no. Because he verbally threatened to cut one of his 'wives' with a knife does not turn him into Jack. The night of the double event I believe holds the key to Jack. Stride is found by Diemschutz at 1am. At 1.45am Eddowes is found by PC Watkins. It's roughly one mile between the 2 sites. Jack is being driven by blood lust. He's actively hunting - I don't think he could have stopped himself. He was interrupted in his 1st kill, had to find another victim. He does, and in that dim, dark, deserted square, does more damage to Eddowes' body than he'd done before. Then he leaves and we know he went through Gouldson St because a bit of Eddowes' apron was found there. He'd stopped to clean his knife on it. He was heading home. I'm sure of it. The geo profiling has him dwelling in Flower and Dean St and he's heading in the correct general direction. But I just can't figure Jack living in Spitalfields and maybe that's a major mistake on my part. Don't know. He was a disorganized killer which means that he never really thought through where he would kill, when he would kill. He had enough brains to work out how to murder without being covered in blood. I don't think he had any medical knowledge. He just cut and slashed and took what he could remove. As a trophy, I'm guessing. Most of these serial killers do that. He could approach the prostitutes and he had enough social skills to get them to come with him. However, considering most of them were off their faces with booze doesn't say much. But I just don't think he was stupid enough to kill where he lived. I'm certain he was seen. He would have been taking an almighty chance to kill in the middle of the area he lived in. Maybe he did. I don't think so. Dearest Gabriel! Yes the night of the double murder does hold a clue! The two "^" triangle marks under Miss Eddowes eyes! I don't believe it was meant to be a masonic symbol or meant to be seen together as an M as Maybrick diary believers claim. These triangle marks must have had some meaning for the ripper. Look at my recent post on this thread showing Chapman with his wife Bessie Taylor and notice how Chapman's pistoles and sword on the wall are arranged to form triangles! As far as the first murder and the earlier Tabram murder go and the fact they occured within a stone's throw of Chapman's shop and residence? Sometimes the first murder or murders of a serial killer are unplanned and more impulsive. Further murders will be further away! We don't have a conviction here, just a suspect!
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 23, 2009 12:25:39 GMT
Hi Anna. You do realise that Mitre Sq was in almost total darkness on a wet, cold autumn night? Jack wasn't leaving messages. He was getting his jollies cutting into flesh.'There was an incision on each side of the cheek which peeled up the skin and created a triangular flap'. No messages, no clues to his identity. Just a seriously disturbed serial killer attacking a female body while he has the chance. These weren't random cuts, but geometrically identical cuts on both cheeks directly below the eyes! The killer could have by feeling or even by lighting a match did this. It couldn't have been just fluke chance! A raving slasher isn't interested in geometrical order!
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Post by gabriel on Oct 23, 2009 12:49:25 GMT
Anna, it was raining that night. Lighting matches would have been problematical even for someone trying to get caught. What I just posted was from the autopsy. He cut her cheeks and the skin peeled away in triangular flaps. And if you think about it, Jack's cutting with a knife in the dark. Slashing is more probably correct. Those cuts tend to be diagonal. When he goes to cut them open, the cuts are never neat, vertical incisions. They're ragged, zigzag slashes.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 23, 2009 13:03:01 GMT
Anna, it was raining that night. Lighting matches would have been problematical even for someone trying to get caught. What I just posted was from the autopsy. He cut her cheeks and the skin peeled away in triangular flaps. And if you think about it, Jack's cutting with a knife in the dark. Slashing is more probably correct. Those cuts tend to be diagonal. When he goes to cut them open, the cuts are never neat, vertical incisions. They're ragged, zigzag slashes. I only try to stick to the facts and not make assumptions. The autopsy sketch of Catherine Eddowes shows the 2 triangular marks. Post mortem photos in the YouTube videos of Miss Eddowes show this too. photos.casebook.org/albums/v_4/normal_eddowes_sketch.jpgI think the ripper case would be a disappointment to many, if the identity of the ripper is discovered. The killer certainly didn't have an interesting personality or masonic conspiracy motives. We also can't dismiss the theory that there was more than one ripper, if we follow the theory that Emma Smith was the first ripper victim. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Elizabeth_SmithThis would probably exonerate Chapman, who i see as a lone wolf. It would certainly disappoint "ripperologists" if the ripper killings were done by more than one serial killer as in the "murder mack killings" or the "hillside strangler" case. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Bittaker_and_Roy_Norris en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillside_StranglerThese killers alone or in groups are not interesting personalities and would never get their own role, if Hollywood wanted to make a successful film about any one of them and their killings.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 23, 2009 13:09:49 GMT
Jack was a lone killer, not a part of the conspiracy theories. They're good fun to read because they're such a load of bs***. My favourite is Queen Victoria's doctor, Sir William Gull, roaming around Whitechapel killing prostitutes. He's being driven around in a royal coach during all of this. It doesn't matter that the guy was in his 70's and had had a series of strokes. Make the facts fit your theory, not your theory fit the facts.
You know, maybe it was Lewis Carroll!
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 23, 2009 13:18:58 GMT
Jack was a lone killer, not a part of the conspiracy theories. They're good fun to read because they're such a load of bs***. My favourite is Queen Victoria's doctor, Sir William Gull, roaming around Whitechapel killing prostitutes. He's being driven around in a royal coach during all of this. It doesn't matter that the guy was in his 70's and had had a series of strokes. Make the facts fit your theory, not your theory fit the facts. You know, maybe it was Lewis Carroll! The wild stories sell better! I could post a YouTube to one of the ripper tours to avoid which is all based on freemason conspiracies. And yeah Druitt is supposed to be the ripper on this tour and a masonic conspiracy forced McNaughton to destroy his records and notes on Druitt! People want to be entertained and i'm sure the real ripper wouldn't be a money maker for "ripper profiteers"!
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Post by gabriel on Oct 23, 2009 13:46:36 GMT
Oh yeah, if you can post the youtube on freemason theories, cool. They're part of the Dr Gull involvement.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 23, 2009 13:52:56 GMT
Oh yeah, if you can post the youtube on freemason theories, cool. They're part of the Dr Gull involvement. This is one of the ripper tours with the freemasonic ripper gimmick. I'm just posting the first and last part. Part 1 Part 12
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Post by Big Lin on Oct 23, 2009 17:20:24 GMT
I'm not entirely convinced by the argument that serial killers can't stop or change from killing to lesser crimes.
An obvious example is the Boston Strangler, who after murdering a number of women stopped and went on to 'progress' - not quite the right word but still - to just raping them.
He clearly shows that serial killers CAN stop murdering and go on to lesser crimes so I don't think that in itself is a reason to rule out other suspects.
By the way, William Gull - himself a man named by several writers as a suspect - had his own theory on who the killer was. He thought it was James Stephen, brother of a High Court judge.
Stephen certainly wrote a lot of sadistic pornography fantasing about murdering prostitutes and women; he didn't have much of an alibi; and he certainly had the character profile of a Jack suspect.
The basic flaw with most of the theories is that they assume that the Ripper was a 'someone' when the truth is that he was almost certainly a 'nobody.'
By the way, as he was being hung for a series of serial poisoning, Neill Cream cried out on the scaffold that HE was Jack the Ripper.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 24, 2009 4:37:26 GMT
I'm not entirely convinced by the argument that serial killers can't stop or change from killing to lesser crimes. An obvious example is the Boston Strangler, who after murdering a number of women stopped and went on to 'progress' - not quite the right word but still - to just raping them. He clearly shows that serial killers CAN stop murdering and go on to lesser crimes so I don't think that in itself is a reason to rule out other suspects. . I agree very much that serial killers can change their form of criminal expression. Contempary serial killers as a rule operate in a much wider prowling zone than the ripper did. Can anyone think of another serial killer where you can easily walk to all the murder sites? The ripper obviously knew that he would be arrested, convicted and hung, if he didn't change his modus operandi!
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Post by gabriel on Oct 24, 2009 6:02:55 GMT
I'm not entirely convinced by the argument that serial killers can't stop or change from killing to lesser crimes. An obvious example is the Boston Strangler, who after murdering a number of women stopped and went on to 'progress' - not quite the right word but still - to just raping them. He clearly shows that serial killers CAN stop murdering and go on to lesser crimes so I don't think that in itself is a reason to rule out other suspects. By the way, William Gull - himself a man named by several writers as a suspect - had his own theory on who the killer was. He thought it was James Stephen, brother of a High Court judge. Stephen certainly wrote a lot of sadistic pornography fantasing about murdering prostitutes and women; he didn't have much of an alibi; and he certainly had the character profile of a Jack suspect. The basic flaw with most of the theories is that they assume that the Ripper was a 'someone' when the truth is that he was almost certainly a 'nobody.' By the way, as he was being hung for a series of serial poisoning, Neill Cream cried out on the scaffold that HE was Jack the Ripper. Lin, I think you'll find Cream was saying 'I am ejaculating!' Seriously. And here's a twist for you. James Stephen was a mentor to Prince Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence. Who was the eldest grandson of Queen Victoria and would have ascended the throne after his father the Prince of Wales. There's more. Stephen's father was the Judge Stephen who presided at the trial of Florence Maybrick. Yes, the Maybrick diary.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 24, 2009 6:15:46 GMT
Anna, thanks for the royal conspiracy links. This guy is pulling an even newer one on me. The Prince of Wales met Mary Kelly in Paris!
It's all a load of rot and none of it is true. But it is entertaining.
Thanks
Gabe
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Post by gabriel on Oct 24, 2009 6:48:58 GMT
I'll just post this last one. About D'Onston's 'suspect'.
Supposedly Dr Morgan Davies. b1854 Whitechapel d1920.
Stephenson's story is that while he was a patient at the London Hospital (see Anna's photo) he watched Davies mimic how he killed the victims. Davies supposedly sodomised the prostitutes. Jack didn't. Goodbye Stephenson.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 24, 2009 14:15:40 GMT
By the way, as he was being hung for a series of serial poisoning, Neill Cream cried out on the scaffold that HE was Jack the Ripper. It' appears Cream was in a US prison at the time of the ripper murders! www.casebook.org/suspects/cream.html QUOTE: Even more damning is the fact, often quoted, that Cream was serving a prison sentence from 1881 to 1891 in Joliet, Illinois. Most claim, therefore, that he could not possibly have been the murderer, as all murders were committed in 1888.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 25, 2009 6:30:26 GMT
Well, obviously Cream wasn't Jack. You're right about that. But...to make the facts fit your theory, it has been suggested that Cream had a double (cough cough) who did the prison time for him while Cream did a Jack in Whitechapel. Anything to sell a book.www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/new-jack-the-ripper-suspect-unveiled-1798095.htmlNew Jack the Ripper suspect unveiled By Jerome Taylor Monday, 5 October 2009 Pinning down the identity of Britain’s most notorious serial killer, Jack the Ripper, has occupied the minds of historians and conspiracy theorists alike for decades. Over the years, enthusiasts have pored over the evidence to draw up a list of potential killers that range from the plausible to the preposterous. A Russian con-artist, a Polish barber, an Irish-American quack and even the eldest son of Edward VII have all been accused of being the man who, for one summer in 1888, brought terror to the heart of London’s East End before disappearing without a trace. Now, historian Mei Trow claims to have uncovered another potential suspect, one who fits a modern forensic profile of the killer but has, until now, been overlooked by his fellow “Ripperologists”. Trow believes mortuary attendant Robert Mann, who lived in the area where the killings took place and had a good knowledge of anatomy, would have been regarded as a prime suspect had the modern profiling techniques of today been available to the Metropolitan Police’s baffled officers at the time. Using a profile of the Ripper drawn up by the FBI in 1988 to mark the centenary of his killings, Trow began looking for a local suspect who hailed from Whitechapel’s lower social classes, was the victim of a broken home, and was someone who had worked as either a butcher, a mortuary worker or a medical examiner’s assistant. He also used modern geographical profiling techniques that can pinpoint where a suspect might live depending on the nature and location of their killings. It was while trawling through newspaper cuttings of the inquests into the first two Ripper slayings that Trow stumbled across the testimony of Mann, a former workhouse child who by the time of the slayings was in his fifties and working in a mortuary. When Polly Nichols, the Ripper’s first confirmed kill, was found dead, her body was taken to a nearby mortuary on what was then Eagle Place. Mann opened the mortuary up and, according to the inquest, undressed the body despite being under strict instructions not touch Nichols. The Ripper’s second victim, Annie Chapman, was also taken to Mann’s morgue, which lay within walking distance of all the murders and had taught him how to wield knives in a surgical manner. Trow believes Mann was ignored by police because the inquest judge described him as an unreliable witness, stating: “It appears the mortuary-keeper is subject to fits, and neither his memory nor statements are reliable.” But this seemingly inept man, Trow believes, may have in fact been deliberately seeking to murder people locally so that he could later admire his handiwork. “The most chilling prospect is that Robert Mann is selecting the people he does, in the places he does, because he knows that they will come back to his mortuary,” says Trow. Although definitively pinning down the real Ripper is next to impossible, Trow’s methods of using modern techniques to highlight likely suspects has drawn some academic support. Professor Laurence Alison, a forensic psychologist at Liverpool University, believes a working class local suspect like Mann is the closest psychological fit, rather than the traditional image of an upper class killer stalking the streets of London in a cape and top hat. “In terms of psychological profiling, Robert Mann is the one of the most credible suspects from recent years and the closest we may ever get to a plausible psychological explanation for these most infamous of Victorian murders,” he said. * Jack the Ripper: Killer Revealed premieres on Discovery Channel, Sunday 11 October, 9.00pm This is a new one on me. I haven't seen the Dis Ch docu but I'll keep an eye out for it. Robert Mann was a pauper inmate who laid the bodies out. He wasn't the full quid. This is another example of making the facts fit your theory. How come no-one offers me a docu on who I think Jack may have been? H'm.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 25, 2009 8:40:48 GMT
Hi Gabriel!! Robert Mann? Hmmm! I dunno! I do believe the ripper had surgical knowledge to be able to locate and remove key organs in the dark. I guess morticans learn about anatomy too, but i would refrain from speculating without solid facts!
These YouTube videos should interest you! Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5
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