Truth

[Scottish Lassie]

May 18, 2015 18:48:53 GMT @menantol said:

May 18, 2015 10:12:41 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Big Lin, If your husband came and told you something that had happened to him whilst he was in town. Would you believe that he was telling you the truth, or would you demand proof?

Hello Chris, I have no doubt that Big Lin can make her own replies, but for me I am interested in the analogy you have used in that I do not think it applies in this case. Oh, I do see what you are trying say but this is the wrong analogy.

A better analogy (using the husband idea) would be something like, if the husband returned from town and said that he had seen an opening into another world down at the tavern, what would be the level of your belief in that story. Even then, you would have to recall if
the husband and wife had ever had such discussions in the past? Does the husband drink to excess? Barring some other unforeseen circumstance, of course you're going to seek proof, if for no other reason that checking the husband's sanity.

Many other factors apply when one hears a story from another person, such as the husband coming home with lipstick on his collar. Asking for proof . . . . . I wonder.

The difference here is that you are relating something that is far outside the ken of others. More over you are asking them to believe it with no more than your word, or, at the very least asking them to accept that you believe the story.

Without some common foundation that is a very tough sale.

Hi Menantol, I understand what you are saying also. I know perfectly well that someone who only knows the ordinary things of life would not believe someone having a spiritual experience.

Why do you think we have psychiatrists they do not believe in the spiritual realm either the just believe that you have experienced an aberration of the brain or mind, in other words, a hallucination.

According to them, all the people in the Bible who had spiritual experiences belong in that category. To them, there is only this physical realm., so all the people who have these kinds of experences are all mentally ill.

An eminent Neurosurgeon named Eben Alexander caught a serious brain infection and the part of the brain that is responsible for hallucinations, shut down, but he continued to have the experience that he was visiting a beautiful place where he felt nothing but love.

He was still very much aware of everything that was happening, so he wann't having a hallucination because the part of his brain that is responsible fot that, was not functioning anymore. Now, this man believes that an afterlife exists. As far as he is concerned that is proof enough for him, as it is for me.

[Deleted]

I would like to answer you Chris but cannot do so until another thread is established for the purpose of these dialogs. Reference Anna two postings back for reference.

[Scottish Lassie]

May 20, 2015 16:39:34 GMT Big Lin said:

May 20, 2015 14:38:04 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Mike Marshall, we have already established that you and your wife have both experienced phenomena. When you discussed it with each other, did each of you believe the other that these events had happened as you said? or did you each say 'Darling! you must have imagined it?

Chris, you're actually responding to Menantol's post and not Mike's.

But a) I remember telling you some of the things we'd experienced such as hauntings and your response was to say they were all illusions sent by Satan to deceive us; b) we have experienced a number of events together; c) each of us has also experienced events that we know
were NOT real - for example, two years ago Mike heard the front door (which was Chubb locked) open and close so naturally he rushed down to confront a possible intruder and yet the door was STILL Chubbed and no one was there.

Now on the first point if the hauntings WE both experienced were 'illusions sent by Satan to deceive us' then you've got NO basis for believing that your Eckist visions aren't ALSO 'illusions sent by Satan to deceive you.'

On the second point since both of us (and other people too even after we moved out of the place) experienced these things that in itself doesn't make them 'real' because (for example) a group of thirsty travellers in a desert could all collectively hallucinate the mirage of an oasis.

So how do you answer those objections - particularly the first one?

Hi BigLin, I don't think I would have said that it was indeed a hallucination. I believe to be true every experience you had. These things do happen, I might have said that you have to be careful that you are not deceived.

That is one of the things that we are told in ECKANKAR, before we act on an experience, to be sure of who you are dealing with. What you experienced was real, that is phenomena, but it is not necessarily spiritual, and that is what ECKANKAR is seeking.

We are wending our way, step by step towards the Godhead. Some people get caught up in phenomena and stay engrossed with it, and are quite happy. We see it as a distraction, to climbing ' Jacob's Ladder ' which is our aim.

[Big Lin]

I am starting a new discussion on truth. I hope I can manage to move the discussions on that subject that seem to have got stuck on the wrong thread here.

Here's hoping!

[Deleted]

May 21, 2015 23:09:50 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

May 18, 2015 18:48:53 GMT @menantol said:

Hello Chris, I have no doubt that Big Lin can make her own replies, but for me I am interested in the analogy you have used in that I do not think it applies in this case. Oh, I do see what you are trying say but this is the wrong analogy.

A better analogy (using the husband idea) would be something like, if the husband returned from town and said that he had seen an opening into another world down at the tavern, what would be the level of your belief in that story. Even then, you would have to recall if
the husband and wife had ever had such discussions in the past? Does the husband drink to excess? Barring some other unforeseen circumstance, of course you're going to seek proof, if for no other reason that checking the husband's sanity.

Many other factors apply when one hears a story from another person, such as the husband coming home with lipstick on his collar. Asking for proof . . . . . I wonder.

The difference here is that you are relating something that is far outside the ken of others. More over you are asking them to believe it with no more than your word, or, at the very least asking them to accept that you believe the story.

Without some common foundation that is a very tough sale.

Hi Menantol, I understand what you are saying also. I know perfectly well that someone who only knows the ordinary things of life would not believe someone having a spiritual experience.

Why do you think we have psychiatrists they do not believe in the spiritual realm either the just believe that you have experienced an aberration of the brain or mind, in other words, a hallucination.

According to them, all the people in the Bible who had spiritual experiences belong in that category. To them, there is only this physical realm., so all the people who have these kinds of experences are all mentally ill.

An eminent Neurosurgeon named Eben Alexander caught a serious brain infection and the part of the brain that is responsible for hallucinations, shut down, but he continued to have the experience that he was visiting a beautiful place where he felt nothing but love.

He was still very much aware of everything that was happening, so he wann't having a hallucination because the part of his brain that is responsible fot that, was not functioning anymore. Now, this man believes that an afterlife exists. As far as he is concerned that is proof enough for him, as it is for me.

Chris an interesting posting. Your comment, “ . . . I know perfectly well that someone who only knows the ordinary things of life would not believe someone having a spiritual experience. . . . “ is of particular interest. 'The ordinary things of life,' what an interesting turn of a phrase, particularly when it is meant as not being able to believe a spiritual experience.

Two things. First that ordinary things are without spirituality, nothing could be father from the truth. The so called ordinary things are anything but ordinary. To watch a tree come from the resting of winter and begin to bud and break out in leaves that bend to every day's sun and then past through their color change and drop to feed the next cycle.

Setting among flowers and watching a bee come and search over the flower seeking pollen sticking to its legs that as the season continues becomes honey.

Birds building nests high in a tree, filling it with eggs and then that new life struggling through the shell to become tiny birds that will start a new cycle.

The ordinary, that isn't ordinary, is all around us, each day, every minute. The reality of life is more spiritual than any dream, any vision, that day to day life soaks into us through our eyes, our ears, tasted in the air, through the very pores of our skin. That is spiritual.

Just think! Here we are, one species among many, on a small planet, in a not so special solar system, in the edge of a galaxy, way out on the edge of a Universe that is only one among many. Now that reality is spiritual. Personally I find it odd that some people have to leave that reality to seek spirituality.

[Scottish Lassie]

May 23, 2015 0:14:05 GMT @menantol said:

May 21, 2015 23:09:50 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Menantol, I understand what you are saying also. I know perfectly well that someone who only knows the ordinary things of life would not believe someone having a spiritual experience.

Why do you think we have psychiatrists they do not believe in the spiritual realm either the just believe that you have experienced an aberration of the brain or mind, in other words, a hallucination.

According to them, all the people in the Bible who had spiritual experiences belong in that category. To them, there is only this physical realm., so all the people who have these kinds of experences are all mentally ill.

An eminent Neurosurgeon named Eben Alexander caught a serious brain infection and the part of the brain that is responsible for hallucinations, shut down, but he continued to have the experience that he was visiting a beautiful place where he felt nothing but love.

He was still very much aware of everything that was happening, so he wann't having a hallucination because the part of his brain that is responsible fot that, was not functioning anymore. Now, this man believes that an afterlife exists. As far as he is concerned that is proof enough for him, as it is for me.

Chris an interesting posting. Your comment, “ . . . I know perfectly well that someone who only knows the ordinary things of life would not believe someone having a spiritual experience. . . . “ is of particular interest. 'The ordinary things of life,' what an interesting turn of a phrase, particularly when it is meant as not being able to believe a spiritual experience.

Two things. First that ordinary things are without spirituality, nothing could be father from the truth. The so called ordinary things are anything but ordinary. To watch a tree come from the resting of winter and begin to bud and break out in leaves that bend to every day's sun and then past through their color change and drop to feed the next cycle.

Setting among flowers and watching a bee come and search over the flower seeking pollen sticking to its legs that as the season continues becomes honey.

Birds building nests high in a tree, filling it with eggs and then that new life struggling through the shell to become tiny birds that will start a new cycle.

The ordinary, that isn't ordinary, is all around us, each day, every minute. The reality of life is more spiritual than any dream, any vision, that day to day life soaks into us through our eyes, our ears, tasted in the air, through the very pores of our skin. That is spiritual.

Just think! Here we are, one species among many, on a small planet, in a not so special solar system, in the edge of a galaxy, way out on the edge of a Universe that is only one among many. Now that reality is spiritual. Personally I find it odd that some people have to leave that reality to seek spirituality.

Hi Menantol, You really amaze me. If you have taken the time out of your daily grind to take notice of all the wonders of life, then you are a man after my own heart.

I too love nature, and sometimes I have been so inspired by its beauty it has been almost too much to bear. To me, all life is a miracle.

[Deleted]

Chris, It doesn't seem like taking time out of a day, but rather just trying to be aware.

Just try something such as walking and then noticing the colors. Leaves on a tree are green, but are they really green. Or, are they different greens. Not just between trees but on a single tree, then not just all of the leaves on that tree, but on a single branch, and even then a single leaf. Is it greem or differing types of green and, are both sides of that single leaf the same green or are they not only different but on a single side of a single leaf the same green. Or is the green on a single side of a single leaf differ from the edge to where it is attached to the tree, and even then do the veins in that single side of that single leaf stand out differently from the leaf between those veins. Even then are you looking at something that is static or changing as the winds and the Sun touch the leaf.

Then . . . . .

Draw your awareness back from that single leaf to include two leafs or the branch of leafs or the entire tree of leafs. Is your awareness differing from the morning leaf to the one at night, does dew on the leaf change the colors or, maybe there is a light morning spider web touching the leaf. Can you notice a small and with that awareness of smell do the colors change. Can you try to feel the smell, or touch the colors or watch the changes as the sum moves across the tree. And then be aware of the tree as a life deep in the earth and up toward the Sum. Can your mind's eye visualize the living of that leaf, that tree, its bark, its inner growing of the rings slowing and to a differ speed of time.

My point is there is no need to find spirituality by seeking other as it is there right in front of you and learning all you can about the reality of that life is full of increasing awareness, increasing spirituality. Life is its own spirituality. Every day things have all of this and more. Not understand spirituality? We walk in a sea of it all day long in this great sea of common, every day reality. To seek in some mystic place is to miss this reality.

[Scottish Lassie]

Hi Menantol, Some mystic place is where God dwells and where spirituality also dwells. No matter how beautiful all these things are, it does not compare with the beauty of the Kingdom of God, where there is no pain, only bliss.

[Deleted]

May 24, 2015 0:25:24 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Menantol, Some mystic place is where God dwells and where spirituality also dwells. No matter how beautiful all these things are, it does not compare with the beauty of the Kingdom of God, where there is no pain, only bliss.

I understand how you feel Chris, and that is fine, go with it. However, if you took what I said as some description of beauty then I wasn't clear. It is the awareness of life and all of its interconnections. If you happen to walk along a path in the forest and come across the body of some animal that had died. Its death was in the past because it has began to rot and maggots have invaded that body. Most would say there is no beauty there, and if they are seeking beauty they would be correct. But if they are simply . . . . . . . aware, that body with the maggots is every bit as wondrous as the tree. Both are real and contribute to life.

Beauty may be seen in anything but the goal is to merely be aware.

Many years ago I had the opportunity to listen to a man speak. He was not a Guru, or a teacher, which he could have been very easily, but he had rejected such roles as well as rejecting religion and would not accept followers. He was offered much, money, sites with buildings and he walked away from it all. He would simply speak, usually answering questions. His name was Jiddu Krishnamurti.

Others recorded his words and these words have been available to anyone interested. Following are three of his quotes which touch on the area we have been discussing.


The religious mind

The religious mind is something entirely different from the mind that believes in religion. You cannot be religious and yet be a Hindu, a Muslim, a Christian, a Buddhist. A religious mind does not seek at all, it cannot experiment with truth. Truth is not something dictated by your pleasure or pain, or by your conditioning as a Hindu or whatever religion you belong to. The religious mind is a state of mind in which there is no fear and therefore no belief whatsoever but only what is -what actually is. - Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known The Second Penguin Krishnamurti Reader



Life is Action

Life is existence, is a movement, and this movement is action. Life, the totality of life, not parts of it, the whole state of existence,is action. But when we merely exist, as most of us do, then the problem of action becomes complex. Existence has no division. It is not a fragmentary state of mind or being; in that [state] a totality of action is possible. But when we divide existence into different segments, fragments, then action becomes contradictory. - Krishnamurti, Collected Works, Vol. XV, Action



Meditation

Meditation, along that quiet and deserted road came like a soft rain over the hills; it came as easily and naturally as the coming night. There was no effort of any kind and no control with its concentrations and distractions; there was no order and pursuit; no denial or acceptance nor any continuity of memory in meditation. The brain was aware of its environment but quiet without response, uninfluenced but recognizing without responding. It was very quiet and words had faded with thought. There was that strange energy, call it by any other name, it has no importance whatsoever, deeply active, without object and purpose; it was creation, without the canvas and the marble, and destructive; it was not the thing of human brain, of expression and decay. It was not approachable, to be classified and analysed, and thought and feeling are not the instruments of its comprehension. It was completely unrelated to everything and totally alone in its vastness and immensity. And walking along that darkening road, there was the ecstasy of the impossible, not of achievement, arriving, success and all those immature demands and responses, but the aloneness of the impossible. The possible is mechanical and the impossible can be envisaged, tried and perhaps achieved which in turn becomes mechanical. But the ecstasy had no cause, no reason. It was simply there, not as an experience but as a fact, not to be accepted or denied, to be argued over and dissected. It was not a thing to be sought after for there is no path to it. Everything has to die for it to be, death, destruction which is love. - Krishnamurti, Krishnamurti s Notebook Part 6 Madras 3rd Public Talk 29th December 1979

[Scottish Lassie]

May 23, 2015 0:14:05 GMT @menantol said:

May 21, 2015 23:09:50 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Menantol, I understand what you are saying also. I know perfectly well that someone who only knows the ordinary things of life would not believe someone having a spiritual experience.

Why do you think we have psychiatrists they do not believe in the spiritual realm either the just believe that you have experienced an aberration of the brain or mind, in other words, a hallucination.

According to them, all the people in the Bible who had spiritual experiences belong in that category. To them, there is only this physical realm., so all the people who have these kinds of experences are all mentally ill.

An eminent Neurosurgeon named Eben Alexander caught a serious
brain infection and the part of the brain that is responsible for hallucinations, shut down, but he continued to have the experience that he was visiting a beautiful place where he felt nothing but love.

He was still very much aware of everything that was happening, so he wann't having a hallucination because the part of his brain that is responsible fot that, was not functioning anymore. Now, this man believes that an afterlife exists. As far as he is concerned that is proof enough for him, as it is for me.

Chris an interesting posting. Your comment, “ . . . I know perfectly well that someone who only knows the ordinary things of life would not believe someone having a spiritual experience. . . . “ is of particular interest. 'The ordinary things of life,' what an interesting turn of a phrase, particularly when it is meant as not being able to believe a spiritual experience.

Two things. First that ordinary things are without spirituality, nothing could be father from the truth. The so called ordinary things are anything but ordinary. To watch a tree come from the resting of winter and begin to bud and break out in leaves that bend to every day's sun and then past through their color change and drop to feed the next cycle.

Setting among flowers and watching a bee come and search over the flower seeking pollen sticking to its legs that as the season continues becomes honey.

Birds building nests high in a tree, filling it with eggs and then that new life struggling through the shell to become tiny birds that will start a new cycle.

The ordinary, that isn't ordinary, is all around us, each day, every minute. The reality of life is more spiritual than any dream, any vision, that day to day life soaks into us through our eyes, our ears, tasted in the air, through the very pores of our skin. That is spiritual.

Just think! Here we are, one species among many, on a small planet, in a not so special solar system, in the edge of a galaxy, way out on the edge of a Universe that is only one among many. Now that reality is spiritual. Personally I find it odd that some people have to leave that reality to seek spirituality.

Hi Menantol, I shouldn't think that physical reality has anything to do with spirituality. Spirituality has to do with the Kingdom of God, which is where God dwells. And that is where we in ECKANKAR wish to be.

We are all evolving, step by step to be Godlike and until that happens we cannot enter the true realm of God. Soul is aware only of spirituality whilst the mind is aware of physical things, and falls by the wayside eventually.Soul continues on, so that is who we are, the body is just a vehicle for Soul as I have said so often

[Deleted]

May 28, 2015 5:07:13 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

May 23, 2015 0:14:05 GMT @menantol said:

Chris an interesting posting. Your comment, “ . . . I know perfectly well that someone who only knows the ordinary things of life would not believe someone having a spiritual experience. . . . “ is of particular interest. 'The ordinary things of life,' what an interesting turn of a phrase, particularly when it is meant as not being able to believe a spiritual experience.

Two things. First that ordinary things are without spirituality, nothing could be father from the truth. The so called ordinary things are anything but ordinary. To watch a tree come from the resting of winter and begin to bud and break out in leaves that bend to every day's sun and then past through their color change and drop to feed the next cycle.

Setting among flowers and watching a bee come and search over the flower seeking pollen sticking to its legs that as the season continues becomes honey.

Birds building nests high in a tree, filling it with eggs and then that new life struggling through the shell to become tiny birds that will start a new cycle.

The ordinary, that isn't ordinary, is all around us, each day, every minute. The reality of life is more spiritual than any dream, any vision, that day to day life soaks into us through our eyes, our ears, tasted in the air, through the very pores of our skin. That is spiritual.

Just think! Here we are, one species among many, on a small planet, in a not so special solar system, in the edge of a galaxy, way out on the edge of a Universe that is only one among many. Now that reality is spiritual. Personally I find it odd that some people have to leave that reality to seek spirituality.

Hi Menantol, I shouldn't think that physical reality has anything to do with spirituality. Spirituality has to do with the Kingdom of God, which is where God dwells. And that is where we in ECKANKAR wish to be.

We are all evolving, step by step to be Godlike and until that happens we cannot enter the true realm of God. Soul is aware only of spirituality whilst the mind is aware of physical things, and falls by the wayside eventually.Soul continues on, so that is who we are, the body is just a vehicle for Soul as I have said so often

I have no doubt that is the way you look at it Chris.  That seems to me a lot of work to gain what you already have.  All is connected and what you are seeking is in every blade of grass, every tree, every rock, every mountain, every lake, and every river.  But each his own.

[Scottish Lassie]

May 28, 2015 5:50:51 GMT @menantol said:

May 28, 2015 5:07:13 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Menantol, I shouldn't think that physical reality has anything to do with spirituality. Spirituality has to do with the Kingdom of God, which is where God dwells. And that is where we in ECKANKAR wish to be.

We are all evolving, step by step to be Godlike and until that happens we cannot enter the true realm of God. Soul is aware only of spirituality whilst the mind is aware of physical things, and falls by the wayside eventually.Soul continues on, so that is who we are, the body is just a vehicle for Soul as I have said so often

I have no doubt that is the way you look at it Chris.  That seems to me a lot of work to gain what you already have.  All is connected and what you are seeking is in every blade of
grass, every tree, every rock, every mountain, every lake, and every river.  But each his own.

Hi menantol, Why does it say in the Bible that Spirit will always strive with the physical if you think they are one? In ECKANKAR we believe that we are Soul (Spirit ) and that the body is where Soul dwells while it is in this physical plane in order to learn by having experiences.

God put the physical plane into being especially for Soul. As I keep saying we are Soul, we are not the body. Until this is realised. We are never going to undestand each other.

[Scottish Lassie]

May 28, 2015 5:50:51 GMT @menantol said:

May 28, 2015 5:07:13 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Menantol, I shouldn't think that physical reality has anything to do with spirituality. Spirituality has to do with the Kingdom of God, which is where God dwells. And that is where we in ECKANKAR wish to be.

We are all evolving, step by step to be Godlike and until that happens we cannot enter the true realm of God. Soul is aware only of spirituality whilst the mind is aware of physical things, and falls by the wayside eventually.Soul continues on, so that is who we are, the body is just a vehicle for Soul as I have said so often

I have no doubt that is the way you look at it Chris.  That seems to me a lot of work to gain what you already have.  All is connected and what you are seeking
is in every blade of grass, every tree, every rock, every mountain, every lake, and every river.  But each his own.

Hi Menantol,Are you a member ofthe Hari Krishna group?they used to go around town trying to drum up new followers.

When I was using the expression the 'ordinary things' in life I meant the normal things that are part of this physical plane. I wasn't talking about how aware a person is, but that which is spiritual, and that has nothing to do with the physical plane.

[Deleted]

May 28, 2015 13:55:18 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

May 28, 2015 5:50:51 GMT @menantol said:

I have no doubt that is the way you look at it Chris.  That seems to me a lot of work to gain what you already have.  All is connected and what you are seeking
is in every blade of grass, every tree, every rock, every mountain, every lake, and every river.  But each his own.

Hi Menantol,Are you a member ofthe Hari Krishna group?they used to go around town trying to drum up new followers.

When I was using the expression the 'ordinary things' in life I meant the normal things that are part of this physical plane. I wasn't talking about how aware a person is, but that which is spiritual, and that has nothing to do with the physical plane.

No Chris.  The Hari Krishna was a cult that took advantage of many young people and ruined their lives.

I'm only a Existentialist Atheist and all I'm saying that there is no need to seek things beyond the world in which we live.  Obviously all things are connected.  People who seek reality through some (to me) mystical illusion miss the point that there is no such need.  We are what we are and to not accept that day to day reality covers everything is (again to me) not facing reality.

It really is that simple.

[Big Lin]

May 28, 2015 14:19:28 GMT @menantol said:

May 28, 2015 13:55:18 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Menantol,Are you a member ofthe Hari Krishna group?they used to go around town trying to drum up new followers.

When I was using the expression the 'ordinary things' in life I meant the normal things that are part of this physical plane. I wasn't talking about how aware a person is, but that which is spiritual, and that has nothing to do with the physical plane.

No Chris.  The Hari Krishna was a cult that took advantage of many young people and ruined their lives.

I'm only a Existentialist Atheist and all I'm saying that there is no need to seek things beyond the world in which we live.  Obviously all things are connected.  People who seek reality through some (to me) mystical illusion miss the point that there is no such need.  We are what we are and to not accept that day to day reality covers everything is (again to me) not facing reality.

It really is that simple.

Thanks for making me laugh, Chris; the idea that Menantol was a Hari Krishna is as funny as the idea that I'm some sort of fellow traveller with ISIS!

[Scottish Lassie]

May 28, 2015 17:02:41 GMT Big Lin said:

May 28, 2015 14:19:28 GMT @menantol said:

No Chris.  The Hari Krishna was a cult that took advantage of many young people and ruined their lives.

I'm only a Existentialist Atheist and all I'm saying that there is no need to seek things beyond the world in which we live.  Obviously all things are connected.  People who seek reality through some (to me) mystical illusion miss the point that there is no such need.  We are what we are and to not accept that day to day reality covers everything is (again to me) not facing reality.

It really is that simple.

Thanks for making me laugh, Chris; the idea that Menantol was a Hari Krishna is as funny as
the idea that I'm some sort of fellow traveller with ISIS!

Hi Big Lin, You obviously know Menantol better than I do, but it doesn't matter to me, when all is said and done, what a person believes as long as they are not deliberately trying to harm someone.

We go through life gaining different experiences, and as a result, come to different conclusions, which makes us the people that we are now. I'm happy with who I am, hope you are too. I like to see people laughing.

[Scottish Lassie]

May 28, 2015 14:19:28 GMT @menantol said:

May 28, 2015 13:55:18 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Menantol,Are you a member ofthe Hari Krishna group?they used to go around town trying to drum up new followers.

When I was using the expression the 'ordinary things' in life I meant the normal things that are part of this physical plane. I wasn't talking about how aware a person is, but that which is spiritual, and that has nothing to do with the physical plane.

No Chris.  The Hari Krishna was a cult that took advantage of many young people and ruined their lives.

I'm only a Existentialist Atheist and all I'm saying that there is no need to seek things beyond the world in which we live.  Obviously all things are connected.  People who seek reality through some (to me) mystical illusion miss the point that there is no such need.  We are what we are and to not accept that day to day reality covers everything is (again to me) not facing reality.

It really is that simple.

I see things in a different light Menantol, my experiences tell me differently. I see myself as Soul, using a physical body as protection whilst I function on this earth plane.

Who do you think that you are and what do you think happens to you when the body no longer exists? Does your awareness cease to be?

So, in what way were people harmed by the Hari Krisha's? They seemed pretty harmless to me.

[DAS (formerly BushAdmirer)]

Big Lin - Somehow I can't see you fitting in to the typical ISIS female role.

First, there is the issue of multiple wives. Next is the problem that your husband is out there beheading people who don't share his radical Islamist views. There there are those uncomfortable looking burkas. Being strafed and bombed day to day might be another discomforting issue. Big Lin

[Deleted]

May 28, 2015 17:02:41 GMT Big Lin said:

May 28, 2015 14:19:28 GMT @menantol said:

No Chris.  The Hari Krishna was a cult that took advantage of many young people and ruined their lives.

I'm only a Existentialist Atheist and all I'm saying that there is no need to seek things beyond the world in which we live.  Obviously all things are connected.  People who seek reality through some (to me) mystical illusion miss the point that there is no such need.  We are what we are and to not accept that day to day reality covers everything is (again to me) not facing reality.

It really is that simple.

Thanks for making me laugh, Chris; the idea that Menantol was a Hari Krishna is as funny as the idea that I'm some sort of fellow traveller with ISIS!

You're right Big Lin.  I couldn't be one as the robe would get caught in the motorcycle wheels.

[blc]

May 29, 2015 0:19:30 GMT @menantol said:

May 28, 2015 17:02:41 GMT Big Lin said:

Thanks for making me laugh, Chris; the idea that Menantol was a Hari Krishna is as funny as the idea that I'm some sort of fellow traveller with ISIS!

You're right Big Lin.  I couldn't be one as the robe would get caught in the motorcycle wheels.

Oh, you just bend over and reach between your legs and grab the hem of the back and pull it through your legs to the front and tuck it into your neck opening and hop on that bike!

[Deleted]

May 28, 2015 18:20:26 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

May 28, 2015 14:19:28 GMT @menantol said:

No Chris.  The Hari Krishna was a cult that took advantage of many young people and ruined their lives.

I'm only a Existentialist Atheist and all I'm saying that there is no need to seek things beyond the world in which we live.  Obviously all things are connected.  People who seek reality through some (to me) mystical illusion miss the point that there is no such need.  We are what we are and to not accept that day to day reality covers everything is (again to me) not facing reality.

It really is that simple.

I see things in a different light Menantol, my experiences tell me differently. I see myself as Soul, using a physical body as protection whilst I function on this earth plane.

Who do you think that you are and what do you think happens to you when the body no longer exists? Does your awareness cease to be?

So, in what way were people harmed by the Hari Krisha's? They seemed pretty harmless to me.

Oh Chris it is so simple. We exist, we interact with others. At the end of life, no one knows what happens and it is of no concern to me. I mentioned int the past that twice in my life I died and had to be brought back. Guess what, that period of death, nothing showed up at all. No light, no tunnel, no anything. The only thing we know is that death comes to all of us and there is nothing we can do about it. What happens after death, or doesn't we also know nothing about it and can do nothing about it. I'm completely at ease with that reality.

The Hari Krishnas enticed young people to join their cult. To give up all worldly things to the cult. Young people with not enough life experience to understand what was reaching out to entice them from life into becoming servants to the leadership of the cult. A wasted life before they could gain any life experience. That is a terrible thing to do to young minds.

[blc]

May 29, 2015 0:32:57 GMT @menantol said:

May 28, 2015 18:20:26 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

I see things in a different light Menantol, my experiences tell me differently. I see myself as Soul, using a physical body as protection whilst I function on this earth plane.

Who do you think that you are and what do you think happens to you when the body no longer exists? Does your awareness cease to be?

So, in what way were people harmed by the Hari Krisha's? They seemed pretty harmless to me.

Oh Chris it is so simple. We exist, we interact with others. At the end of life, no one knows what happens and it is of no concern to me. I mentioned int the past that twice in my life I died and had to be brought back. Guess what, that period of death, nothing showed up at all. No light, no tunnel, no anything. The only thing we know is that death comes to all of us and there is nothing we can do about it. What happens after death, or doesn't we also know nothing about it and can do nothing about it. I'm completely at ease with that reality.

The Hari Krishnas enticed young people to join their cult. To give up all worldly things to the cult. Young people with not enough life experience to understand what was reaching out to entice them from life into becoming servants to the leadership of the cult. A wasted life before they could gain any life experience. That is a terrible thing to do to young minds.

Most cults are like that, sadly. You can tell those that belong to cults. They have a hard time focusing on anything else.

[Scottish Lassie]

May 29, 2015 0:37:29 GMT blc said:

May 29, 2015 0:32:57 GMT @menantol said:

Oh Chris it is so simple. We exist, we interact with others. At the end of life, no one knows what happens and it is of no concern to me. I mentioned int the past that twice in my life I died and had to be brought back. Guess what, that period of death, nothing showed up at all. No light, no tunnel, no anything. The only thing we know is that death comes to all of us and there is nothing we can do about it. What happens after death, or doesn't we also know nothing about it and can do nothing about it. I'm completely at ease with that reality.

The Hari Krishnas enticed young people to join their cult. To give up all worldly things to the cult. Young people with not enough life
experience to understand what was reaching out to entice them from life into becoming servants to the leadership of the cult. A wasted life before they could gain any life experience. That is a terrible thing to do to young minds.

Most cults are like that, sadly. You can tell those that belong to cults. They have hard time focusing on anything else.

That let's me out in that case as I have so many interests that I can't keep up with them all. But apart from that the reason that you may think that they have difficulty in focusing on anything else is because the Kingdom of God is where they will be heading when they die, so no doubt they are preparing their next place of residence, whilst you may be concentrating on this life only.

[mikemarshall]

Well, I am an agnostic though I have had some experiences that lead me to consider the possibility that there may be some kind of survival of death.

But while I am willing to concede that may lie in the future the only life we know is the one we are living now.

I believe (perhaps especially now that I am almost 57 years old!) that we should regard life as precious and live every day on earth as if it was our last.

Survival of death is a possibility; death is a certainty.

I prefer to play safe and live now rather than hope for some possibly imaginary future.

[blc]

May 29, 2015 10:22:53 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

May 29, 2015 0:37:29 GMT blc said:

Most cults are like that, sadly. You can tell those that belong to cults. They have hard time focusing on anything else.

That let's me out in that case as I have so many interests that I can't keep up with them all. But apart from that the reason that you may think that they have difficulty in focusing on anything else is because the Kingdom of God is where they will be heading when they die, so no doubt they are preparing their next place of residence, whilst you may be concentrating on this life only.

Yeah, that's why you seldom post in other articles and even then, you try and steer it to your cult topic.