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Post by interestedbob on Oct 2, 2015 20:47:05 GMT
I suppose I am rather old fashioned in my outlook, @menantol. Times have changed, and ideas have changed, but I don't think that the idea of the speed of light being the Universal Speed Limit has changed, or has it? Maybe scientific opinion on that has moved on, and I missed it, which is of course perfectly possible.
There was talk of neutrinos supposedly moving faster than the speed of light a few years ago, but I believe that was later disproved.
I'm perfectly prepared to accept that faster than light travel may one day be possible, if our current theories prove to be wrong, but at the moment we have to work with the facts we have, or we will be in the realms of fantasy.
My point about the two civilisations having to overlap would surely still apply, even if faster than light travel is possible, unless Time Travel also becomes possible, which again, judged by our current knowledge, is currently regarded as fantasy.
Of course, we need to have the free thinkers, who look beyond the current ideas of scientific limits, or we would never move forward, but when the free thinkers produce their bold new plans, the down to earth scientists will still be the ones who have to figure out how to make those plans work, and they will still have to work within the Laws of Physics, even if those Laws are different from the ones we currently regard as correct.
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UFO Files
Oct 2, 2015 21:19:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by Scottish Lassie on Oct 2, 2015 21:19:31 GMT
Whether or not they could get here depends on a couple of things, Scottish Lassie. The first problem is, if the speed of light is indeed the fastest that anything in the Universe can travel at, as Einstein claimed, the time taken to cross the vast distances would be the main limiting factor. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that a race of intelligent beings live on a planet around the nearest star outside our Solar System, which is Proxima Centauri, AKA Alpha Centauri C. Let's also assume that they have interstellar craft capable of travelling at exactly the speed of light. Ignoring the fact that according to Einstein, when they reach the speed of light they would have infinite mass, etc, the journey to Earth would take them 4.2 years, because Proxima Centauri is 4.2 light years away. The journey back would take them another 4.2 years, of course. That means they would need to make a round trip of almost eight and a half years. It's a long time to be travelling, but yes, it could be done. Remember though, that this is the time to and from the nearest star to our sun, which on a cosmic scale is no distance at all. The second problem is, at what period of time do the two civilisations exist? The first great apes appeared on Earth about 14 million years ago, so let's assume that for humans to evolve to where we are now has taken 15 million years. Let's also assume that the human race will survive on Earth for a further 15 million years, giving a total of 30 million years. Then add on a load more for luck, and call it a total of 100 million years, and let's assume the inhabitants of Proxima Centauri also have a 100 million year period of existence. For the two civilisations to meet, even ignoring the practicalities of travelling vast distances, both groups would have to exist within the same 200 million years window, or they will simply miss each other, and never meet. The latest estimate of the age of the Universe is 13.82 billion years, so the two periods of 100 million years each (and that's a huge overestimate) floating around in that 13.82 billion year ocean, would have to overlap for any contact to be possible. That's why I have serious doubts about them getting here. Of course, we could just assume that faster than light travel is possible, and so is time travel, in which case there would be no problem at all, but at the moment everything we know suggests that both are impossible. One other thing that gives me doubts about aliens visiting Earth is the question, why, when they cross these vast distances to visit us, do they then not make proper contact with us? If they are so much more advanced than us, what do they have to fear from us? Why don't they contact the great thinkers and scientists of the world, or the political leaders? Why don't they just land on the White House lawn, or in front of the Kremlin, or in Tiananmen Square? That would surely be the sensible thing for super advanced beings to do, wouldn't it? Flitting around the night sky and scaring solitary humans in the middle of nowhere seems more like the actions of a bunch of idiots to me. I hope you find plenty to interest you on that sightings reports page I linked to, Scottish Lassie. Hi Interested Bob, I did say earlier that you were delving deep, and you are. I understand what you are saying, but I have long forgotten all that.kind of info. But what about worm holes? As far as I am concerned, there has to be another way of getting here that we don't know of as yet. They are here, as we are seeing their craft in the sky, and I do believe that people have been abducted, they have related their experiences. What about the famous Barney Hill and his wife? Anyway there is the possibility that they came in earlier times and just didn't go home. If a craft has been seen flying out of the water they could be living in the depth of the sea, who knows? As I believe that other dimensions exist and that all dimensions occupy the same space as they are vibrating at a different speed. Which is all about Quantum Physics. I don't profess to know much about that, but I have read about it and seen some programs on TV. That's the extent of my knowledge.
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UFO Files
Oct 2, 2015 22:16:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Scottish Lassie on Oct 2, 2015 22:16:42 GMT
Bob, I am not necessarily directing this about Scottish Lassie, but rather the methodology of concluding something is true without actual proof. Before the days of understanding microbes, many different things were believed (strongly believed) to cause illness, and yet they all turned out to be false as they were based on nothing but beliefs from things people saw. Then there are things such as when were the Americas settled? We all know (knew) that the first people in the Americas came over the North Western land bridge that existed when the seas were lower. Now settlements have been found that predate that period and there is gathering evidence that settlement may be as far back as 30,000 years, maybe more. Another case of beliefs being replaced by actual evidence. Throughout the histories of humans, beliefs have continually been replaced by found and developed evidence. In some cases it may even turn out that some of the beliefs had (at least some) factual foundations, but by and large beliefs have cause people to takes paths that become dead ends. And then look at what they are giving up! Here we are with people in England, Australia, America, exchanging thoughts just as if we were face to face. Just after World War II the World population was about 2.5 billion and today it is over 7 billion and we feed them and could easily feed twice that number, not by belief but by factual research. Have you ever plowed a field and then put your hand into the open furrow and feel and smell the life that exists there. Not belief, but facts you can touch. In my lifetime we (the world) has flown the old prop plans and expanded through that to circling the earth, landing on our moon, putting rovers on Mars and sending probes into deep space. No belief, but rather developed and proven facts, something we could not do based on the 'belief' of Earth as the center of all, but we researched that as begun by Newton which led to understanding planet rotation around the Sun. Not beliefs, but facts. How can anyone narrow their life by existing in myth, in beliefs, when the world, the universe, is so grand as to raise goose bumps just by looking at the night sky? Even so, it seems that the numbers of people who would prefer to base their understanding of the world on merely beliefs is large, maybe even growing, and their accepted conclusions seem to become more iron-bound rather than less so. I realize (I hope) that this is an overstatement, but it often seems that a large segment of humans have some innate desire to live in a 'dark age' ruled by myth and magic. Consider just a simple number 2 pencil. Do people realize that no person can make that simple tool? And yet every day people who don't even know each other, mine the graphite, cut the lumber, harvest the rubber for the eraser, mine the ore and smelt the metal that will make the metal fastener for that eraser, together others take these materials and manufacture that pencil, and then market it to the world, in all sorts of colors getting it to people when they need it, and (most amazingly) no one is directing them, no one is telling them what to do, or telling them how much to charge for that pencil. It we, as a species can accomplish that complex process to manufacture that simple product, we can do anything. No myth, no belief, only the reality of the world and honest exchanges with others. Hi Menantol, Myth and Magic is still in evidence today, just because you think of it as the dark ages. Do you recognize that Spiritual planes exist? You seem to be fixated on the physical only. I, like you, appreciate the beauty and wonder of this physical plane and enjoy nothing better than working in my vegetable garden.and I do love the beauty of Nature and all that you mentioned. But the spiritual dimensions do exist, which you seem to know nothing about and they far exceed the beauty and wonder of the physical plane besides being filled with the feeling of bliss so great, that you want to dwell in these realms forever. You certainly can't beat that!!! But you evidently are too caught up with the things of the physical so have chosen to ignore that spiritual realms also exist. I have been there, so I know!!! There is so much that the human race is missing out on, simply because some people close their minds to the existence of anything else other than the physical dimension.
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Post by interestedbob on Oct 2, 2015 23:16:23 GMT
I don't think I'm really delving all that deep, Scottish Lassie, it's basically fairly simple, but maybe I didn't explain it very well, so I'll try to explain it in a simpler way. It sounds a bit silly, but bear with me. Just let go of reality for a few minutes, and read this little story. The first part of that story is the equivalent of an alien crossing the vast distances of space and reaching Earth. It may be possible for them to somehow exceed the speed of light and reach Earth, but that's only part of the job done. The second part of the story is the equivalent of the alien civilisation existing in a totally different time period from humans on Earth. For me to meet Ned Kelly, his lifetime needed to overlap mine, but it didn't, so there was no chance of us meeting. To meet us, the aliens need to exist at the same time as we do, and there's no guarantee that has happened, or will happen. _________________ Wormholes may prove to be true, but are currently just a theoretical possibility. The alleged abduction of Barney and Betty Hill may be perfectly true, but the only evidence that exists is their own testimony, most of which came from hypnotic regression sessions, and their accounts, especially Barney's, frequently changed dramatically. We will just have to disagree about our opinions concerning multiple dimensions. You apparently visualise them as different 'places', occupying the same space, and I don't. The End. It's too complicated to try to explain it. I don't know which of us is right.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 1:00:20 GMT
Bob, I am not necessarily directing this about Scottish Lassie, but rather the methodology of concluding something is true without actual proof. Before the days of understanding microbes, many different things were believed (strongly believed) to cause illness, and yet they all turned out to be false as they were based on nothing but beliefs from things people saw. Then there are things such as when were the Americas settled? We all know (knew) that the first people in the Americas came over the North Western land bridge that existed when the seas were lower. Now settlements have been found that predate that period and there is gathering evidence that settlement may be as far back as 30,000 years, maybe more. Another case of beliefs being replaced by actual evidence. Throughout the histories of humans, beliefs have continually been replaced by found and developed evidence. In some cases it may even turn out that some of the beliefs had (at least some) factual foundations, but by and large beliefs have cause people to takes paths that become dead ends. And then look at what they are giving up! Here we are with people in England, Australia, America, exchanging thoughts just as if we were face to face. Just after World War II the World population was about 2.5 billion and today it is over 7 billion and we feed them and could easily feed twice that number, not by belief but by factual research. Have you ever plowed a field and then put your hand into the open furrow and feel and smell the life that exists there. Not belief, but facts you can touch. In my lifetime we (the world) has flown the old prop plans and expanded through that to circling the earth, landing on our moon, putting rovers on Mars and sending probes into deep space. No belief, but rather developed and proven facts, something we could not do based on the 'belief' of Earth as the center of all, but we researched that as begun by Newton which led to understanding planet rotation around the Sun. Not beliefs, but facts. How can anyone narrow their life by existing in myth, in beliefs, when the world, the universe, is so grand as to raise goose bumps just by looking at the night sky? Even so, it seems that the numbers of people who would prefer to base their understanding of the world on merely beliefs is large, maybe even growing, and their accepted conclusions seem to become more iron-bound rather than less so. I realize (I hope) that this is an overstatement, but it often seems that a large segment of humans have some innate desire to live in a 'dark age' ruled by myth and magic. Consider just a simple number 2 pencil. Do people realize that no person can make that simple tool? And yet every day people who don't even know each other, mine the graphite, cut the lumber, harvest the rubber for the eraser, mine the ore and smelt the metal that will make the metal fastener for that eraser, together others take these materials and manufacture that pencil, and then market it to the world, in all sorts of colors getting it to people when they need it, and (most amazingly) no one is directing them, no one is telling them what to do, or telling them how much to charge for that pencil. It we, as a species can accomplish that complex process to manufacture that simple product, we can do anything. No myth, no belief, only the reality of the world and honest exchanges with others. Hi Menantol, Myth and Magic is still in evidence today, just because you think of it as the dark ages. Do you recognize that Spiritual planes exist? You seem to be fixated on the physical only. I, like you, appreciate the beauty and wonder of this physical plane and enjoy nothing better than working in my vegetable garden.and I do love the beauty of Nature and all that you mentioned. But the spiritual dimensions do exist, which you seem to know nothing about and they far exceed the beauty and wonder of the physical plane besides being filled with the feeling of bliss so great, that you want to dwell in these realms forever. You certainly can't beat that!!! But you evidently are too caught up with the things of the physical so have chosen to ignore that spiritual realms also exist. I have been there, so I know!!! There is so much that the human race is missing out on, simply because some people close their minds to the existence of anything else other than the physical dimension. Scottish Lassie, you really do provide for me a great deal of humor. You take what I say and then twist it through your beliefs and make conclusions that are not reflective of my position at all. I have suggested in the past that you spend some time reading into the beliefs systems of Gnosticism. It should be pretty easy reading because (in my opinion) it lays the foundation for much of your belief system that you have described. If you find it of interest you could extend those readings into the works of Plato, where much of it arose. The discovery of the Gnostic Codices near Nag Hammadi in 1947 provided the modern stimulus for many new off shoots of religion. Such as L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. I have suggest this because this (Gnosticism) is not mysticism but rather the real world of philosophy and you will find your multiple planes there in that 'real world' philosophy. So too with your references to quantum physics. This has been developed from real world mathematics and evolved to the point that some (emphasize some not all) physicists have come to believe in multiple dimensions. The point is that no one needs myth and magic to believe in such concepts. It would seem to me (of course I could be wrong) that your approaching these things through myth and magic and (in my words) Alice through the looking glass, and that approach is denial of the real world. But hey! I understand the real world is a tough, demanding place. Anyway, please, your making a real mistake trying to define what I accept or do not accept. I know far more about your belief system that I have admitted to and have found it wanting in the extreme. Even so, if you find it to your liking, surely, stay with it, worship it, even wallow in it, what ever trips your trigger (so they say), but in the end it will be far less meaningful than the real world.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Oct 3, 2015 4:14:39 GMT
I don't think I'm really delving all that deep, Scottish Lassie, it's basically fairly simple, but maybe I didn't explain it very well, so I'll try to explain it in a simpler way. It sounds a bit silly, but bear with me. Just let go of reality for a few minutes, and read this little story. The first part of that story is the equivalent of an alien crossing the vast distances of space and reaching Earth. It may be possible for them to somehow exceed the speed of light and reach Earth, but that's only part of the job done. The second part of the story is the equivalent of the alien civilisation existing in a totally different time period from humans on Earth. For me to meet Ned Kelly, his lifetime needed to overlap mine, but it didn't, so there was no chance of us meeting. To meet us, the aliens need to exist at the same time as we do, and there's no guarantee that has happened, or will happen. _________________ Wormholes may prove to be true, but are currently just a theoretical possibility. The alleged abduction of Barney and Betty Hill may be perfectly true, but the only evidence that exists is their own testimony, most of which came from hypnotic regression sessions, and their accounts, especially Barney's, frequently changed dramatically. We will just have to disagree about our opinions concerning multiple dimensions. You apparently visualise them as different 'places', occupying the same space, and I don't. The End. It's too complicated to try to explain it. I don't know which of us is right. Hi Interested Bob, I understood you the first time around, there was no need to bring Ned Kelly into the picture.I'll let you off the hook this time!!! But seriously there has to be a way to visit this world by going out one door and through another. We just don't know about it yet. I keep saying to you that the Aliens are an advanced Intelligence, we are primitive in comparison. You keep ignoring this fact.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Oct 3, 2015 7:55:51 GMT
Hi Menantol, Myth and Magic is still in evidence today, just because you think of it as the dark ages. Do you recognize that Spiritual planes exist? You seem to be fixated on the physical only. I, like you, appreciate the beauty and wonder of this physical plane and enjoy nothing better than working in my vegetable garden.and I do love the beauty of Nature and all that you mentioned. But the spiritual dimensions do exist, which you seem to know nothing about and they far exceed the beauty and wonder of the physical plane besides being filled with the feeling of bliss so great, that you want to dwell in these realms forever. You certainly can't beat that!!! But you evidently are too caught up with the things of the physical so have chosen to ignore that spiritual realms also exist. I have been there, so I know!!! There is so much that the human race is missing out on, simply because some people close their minds to the existence of anything else other than the physical dimension. Scottish Lassie, you really do provide for me a great deal of humor. You take what I say and then twist it through your beliefs and make conclusions that are not reflective of my position at all. I have suggested in the past that you spend some time reading into the beliefs systems of Gnosticism. It should be pretty easy reading because (in my opinion) it lays the foundation for much of your belief system that you have described. If you find it of interest you could extend those readings into the works of Plato, where much of it arose. The discovery of the Gnostic Codices near Nag Hammadi in 1947 provided the modern stimulus for many new off shoots of religion. Such as L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. I have suggest this because this (Gnosticism) is not mysticism but rather the real world of philosophy and you will find your multiple planes there in that 'real world' philosophy. So too with your references to quantum physics. This has been developed from real world mathematics and evolved to the point that some (emphasize some not all) physicists have come to believe in multiple dimensions. The point is that no one needs myth and magic to believe in such concepts. It would seem to me (of course I could be wrong) that your approaching these things through myth and magic and (in my words) Alice through the looking glass, and that approach is denial of the real world. But hey! I understand the real world is a tough, demanding place. Anyway, please, your making a real mistake trying to define what I accept or do not accept. I know far more about your belief system that I have admitted to and have found it wanting in the extreme. Even so, if you find it to your liking, surely, stay with it, worship it, even wallow in it, what ever trips your trigger (so they say), but in the end it will be far less meaningful than the real world. Hi Menantol, That makes two of us then, as I am equally amused with your assumptions of the reality of life. We are all Soul, created in the spiritual planes or dimensions. The Physical body is the temporary vehicle for Soul whilst sojourning in this physical plane, put into being especially to give Soul experiences so that it might come to learn certain things that is relevent to Soul. You have come to believe that the physical plane is the reality, but it isn't. We in ECKANKAR are making our way back to the Godhead in the true spiritual planes where we were created.. We know that they are real because we can visit there by out of the body experiences.The physical body dies and returns to the earth but Soul, which is a unit of awareness, continues on.
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Post by interestedbob on Oct 3, 2015 10:09:27 GMT
Sorry I explained it in a more simple way, Scottish Lassie. Your reference to my delving deep led me to think I hadn't made it clear. You certainly completely ignored what I was trying to explain, and just reasserted your beliefs about aliens. Why does there have to be a way to visit this world by going out one door and in another? We can't even cross the street in that way. You want to believe it's possible, so you believe it's possible, and then you assume that everyone will accept it as a fact, because you say it is. How do you know that the Aliens are an advanced Intelligence, and we are primitive in comparison? You don't know it, you believe it. I don't keep ignoring the so-called 'fact' that aliens are an advanced race. It is simply not a fact, it is one of your beliefs, which I don't accept as facts, because they are not supported by any evidence, or even any logic. Why do you keep ignoring the fact that what you refer to as the "physical plane" works according to physical laws that are fairly well understood by the scientists? What you claim goes on in your "spiritual plane" may well be perfectly true for people who believe in such things, though I wouldn't mind betting that every one of them has their own slightly different view of it, and they probably all believe that their own view is the only true one. They're probably all right, too. On the other hand, as far as I'm concerned, it's all no more than wishful thinking, dreams, illusions and fantasy, with a generous sprinkling of fairy dust, and I reckon you would have a hard job proving me wrong. Feel free to try, of course. It would give you some useful experience of what it's like having to deal with unsubstantiated beliefs being bandied about as facts. I'm sorry if that offends you, but it is my belief, and like you, I am entitled to state my beliefs.
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UFO Files
Oct 3, 2015 13:39:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by Scottish Lassie on Oct 3, 2015 13:39:07 GMT
Sorry I explained it in a more simple way, Scottish Lassie. Your reference to my delving deep led me to think I hadn't made it clear. You certainly completely ignored what I was trying to explain, and just reasserted your beliefs about aliens. Why does there have to be a way to visit this world by going out one door and in another? We can't even cross the street in that way. You want to believe it's possible, so you believe it's possible, and then you assume that everyone will accept it as a fact, because you say it is. How do you know that the Aliens are an advanced Intelligence, and we are primitive in comparison? You don't know it, you believe it. I don't keep ignoring the so-called 'fact' that aliens are an advanced race. It is simply not a fact, it is one of your beliefs, which I don't accept as facts, because they are not supported by any evidence, or even any logic. Why do you keep ignoring the fact that what you refer to as the "physical plane" works according to physical laws that are fairly well understood by the scientists? What you claim goes on in your "spiritual plane" may well be perfectly true for people who believe in such things, though I wouldn't mind betting that every one of them has their own slightly different view of it, and they probably all believe that their own view is the only true one. They're probably all right, too. On the other hand, as far as I'm concerned, it's all no more than wishful thinking, dreams, illusions and fantasy, with a generous sprinkling of fairy dust, and I reckon you would have a hard job proving me wrong. Feel free to try, of course. It would give you some useful experience of what it's like having to deal with unsubstantiated beliefs being bandied about as facts. I'm sorry if that offends you, but it is my belief, and like you, I am entitled to state my beliefs. Hi Interested Bob, You have said that some sightings cannot be explained, I wonder why that is? if everyone is so clever. The fact is that these craft have been around for a long time. People see them and their common sense tells them they are not craft that have been made by our technology. The fact that they are being seen means that they are here. And if they are here it means they know how to get here, and we are just in recent times sending rockets and such like out into space. If they have been able to get here ages ago, then it stands to reason that they must be more intelligent. My common sense is what tells me what is so and I cannot go against that, besides having certain experiences that prrove to me that they are real. Whilst here in the physical plane we are aware, the same applies when we are in the spiritual planes, we are also aware. You give your opinion on things that you don't know, which ofcourse is just supposition, as apparently you have never been there. I have been there so I am speaking from experience. Maybe when the Aliens come to rescue us from annihilation, then you will be forced to accept that they exist. By the way, I do not get offended, I am sure I have mentioned this so many times before. I have risen above this stupidity. ECKANKAR promotes love!!!
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Post by interestedbob on Oct 3, 2015 15:21:09 GMT
I didn't say some sightings cannot be explained, Scottish Lassie. What I actually said was "....I will offer a possible logical explanation if I think there is one, and sometimes there isn't an obvious explanation. Those are the sightings we should be looking at". That's not quite the same thing. To answer your question about why it should be that some sightings should be difficult to explain, maybe, like you, the people reporting them don't give sufficient information for anyone to work out what was seen, so nobody is able to give an explanation. If that's the case, it's the fault of the witnesses, not the people trying to explain the phenomenon, and it certainly doesn't prove that aliens were involved. It is not a fact that 'these craft have been around for a long time'. It is a fact that people have seen things that they couldn't recognise, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are alien craft. That is purely a conclusion jumped to by people who couldn't recognise what they saw. In virtually every one of the hundreds of sighting reports I have read, the witness's lack of relevant knowledge meant they couldn't identify an object that a person with more knowledge in the relevant area could easily identify. You accept without question that if someone sees an object they can't identify, it must be of alien origin, then use that 'fact' to 'prove' your next statement. That would have been a very good argument if it had ever been proved that alien craft are visiting Earth, but it has never been proved, it has only been claimed, with no verifiable evidence. You are using a completely unproven 'fact' as your only evidence to prove that aliens are intelligent, when you haven't even proved your original claim that they are here, so your whole statement is therefore also unproven. As for you saying that I give my opinion on things that I don't know, and that that is just supposition, that sounds exactly the same as what you are doing in every single one of your claimed 'facts'. This conversation is heading absolutely nowhere. I see no point in carrying on a discussion where I'm expected to accept half truths and guesses as facts, and I don't want it to descend to bickering, so please carry on without me.
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UFO Files
Feb 10, 2016 9:47:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 10, 2016 9:47:59 GMT
Hi TBN, How come you know so much? From whom are you receiving your information? You Wouldn't Believe Me If I Could Tell You... Your experience sounds valid. No but start here... Government Information Security Act of 1999 : report of the Committee on Governmental Affairs, United States Senate, to accompany S. 1993, to reform government ... www.worldcat.org/title/government-information-security-act-of-1999-report-of-the-committee-on-governmental-affairs-united-states-senate-to- accompany-s-1993-to-reform-government-information-security-by-strengthening-information-security-practices-throughout-the-federal-government/oclc/44271545&referer=brief_results Hi TBN, I would believe you, so how about telling me, I am very interested. Pretty Please?
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UFO Files
Feb 10, 2016 10:08:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 10, 2016 10:08:54 GMT
The idea of the Majestic 12 has about as much credibility as the “Report from Iron Mountain” that is, no credibility at all. Hi Men an tol, PROVE IT.!!!
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UFO Files
Feb 10, 2016 18:33:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 10, 2016 18:33:16 GMT
Not a bad list Big Lin. As of this time there is no acceptable evidence of the reality of alien craft visiting the earth. there does seem to be (admittedly supposition) that there is some need in at least some people to accept some theory (without real evidence) as being true. And that may be the real question as to why that is part of some people. Hi Men an tol, Are you suggesting that nobody should believe the evidence of their own eyes. What a way to go through life always unsure about what you see. I don't agree with that supposition. I am sure of what I have seen, that is what a brain is designed for, to analyse.!!!
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UFO Files
Feb 10, 2016 19:05:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 10, 2016 19:05:36 GMT
Hi BigLin. In speaking in general you were talking to all the members of your forum who would read your post. You advised them to read with a cautious and open mind rather than an attitude of naive credulity or dogmatic assertions. You are suggesting then, that either of these attitudes could be possible, and were advising against thinking this way.
I was just respondiing to your post in like kind. Why add, that at least you are answering on the right thread, if you weren't being somewhat catty? I reply on the thread that someone more experienced than I has posted, why didn't you tell them? No doubt you are in one of your high and mighty moods that you display every once in a while?
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UFO Files
Feb 11, 2016 1:36:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 11, 2016 1:36:55 GMT
We are all individuals with brains that think and analyse data and the personal experiences that we each have which bring us to the conclusions that we have decided to be true. We each put these viewpoints forward in our posts. I am no different than anyone else.
We have to decide whether each person is stating the truth of their experience, that is all that is required really.!!! You ofcourse demand more proof, which ofcourse I am unable to give, so you label it as fantasy, thus suggesting that I am perhaps having a hallucination, or maybe worse still, calling me a liar.
We, men an tol and Interested Bob and I, were talking about the possibility of the existence of 'worm holes' which would provide a doorway for quick and easy space travel. As far as I am concerned there is definitely a way that we still haven't discovered.
When experiencing Soul travel, we can go back in time or into the future, depending on on what is necessary for our spiritual benefit and consequent evolvement. I have been shown many past lives and I have also seen into the future. I know this because, what I saw beforehand has come true.
To me the proof is there for me alone, as I am the one having that particular experience. It is obvious therefore that I am never going to be able to prove it.!!! Hopefully you will understand that and just take my viewpoints for what they are worth. No skin off my nose, for sure.!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 12:37:43 GMT
Scottish Lassie offered, “ . . . To me the proof is there for me alone, as I am the one having that particular experience. It is obvious therefore that I am never going to be able to prove it.!!! Hopefully you will understand that and just take my viewpoints for what they are worth. No skin off my nose, for sure.!!! . . . . “
That you state that you believe this is obvious. I don’t think anyone disputes that.
We all work from what we believe and as you personally believe these things is great for you, but for me I have to have something more than just someone else’s words. For example, when Albert Einstein first went public with his theory of Special Relativity he believed it and there were other Mathematicians who didn’t believe. He had reputation of being a great mathematician and yet there was no proof and it turned out through further effort that he came to understand that actual proof was required and from that her redeveloped his position into the Theory of General Relativity, which provided a firm foundation for these individual to accept his work.
With this new theory, others could take what he offered and do their own work to to prove his theories. This doesn’t exist with what you offer. You believe because you believe that you had these experiences and others cannot believe because they haven’t had these experiences. Most even have ‘other’ beliefs. Clearly this is difficult for you to understand. That your beliefs (or forms of them) have been around for a long time is true and others have known about them, and not accepted them. That you cannot accept the positions of others is obvious. You see others do take your viewpoints for what they are worth.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 12:41:44 GMT
Not a bad list Big Lin. As of this time there is no acceptable evidence of the reality of alien craft visiting the earth. there does seem to be (admittedly supposition) that there is some need in at least some people to accept some theory (without real evidence) as being true. And that may be the real question as to why that is part of some people. Hi Men an tol, Are you suggesting that nobody should believe the evidence of their own eyes. What a way to go through life always unsure about what you see. I don't agree with that supposition. I am sure of what I have seen, that is what a brain is designed for, to analyse.!!! Yes, I am suggesting that people do not always correctly understand what they believe that they have seen. In a court of law the visual witness is most often the least reliable and that is the reason that most cases require corroborating evidence.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 14:05:29 GMT
Hi BigLin. In speaking in general you were talking to all the members of your forum who would read your post. You advised them to read with a cautious and open mind rather than an attitude of naive credulity or dogmatic assertions. You are suggesting then, that either of these attitudes could be possible, and were advising against thinking this way. I was just respondiing to your post in like kind. Why add, that at least you are answering on the right thread, if you weren't being somewhat catty? I reply on the thread that someone more experienced than I has posted, why didn't you tell them? No doubt you are in one of your high and mighty moods that you display every once in a while?WOA! no cat fighting here!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 14:08:47 GMT
We are all individuals with brains that think and analyse data and the personal experiences that we each have which bring us to the conclusions that we have decided to be true. We each put these viewpoints forward in our posts. I am no different than anyone else. We have to decide whether each person is stating the truth of their experience, that is all that is required really.!!! You ofcourse demand more proof, which ofcourse I am unable to give, so you label it as fantasy, thus suggesting that I am perhaps having a hallucination, or maybe worse still, calling me a liar. We, men an tol and Interested Bob and I, were talking about the possibility of the existence of 'worm holes' which would provide a doorway for quick and easy space travel. As far as I am concerned there is definitely a way that we still haven't discovered. When experiencing Soul travel, we can go back in time or into the future, depending on on what is necessary for our spiritual benefit and consequent evolvement. I have been shown many past lives and I have also seen into the future. I know this because, what I saw beforehand has come true. To me the proof is there for me alone, as I am the one having that particular experience. It is obvious therefore that I am never going to be able to prove it.!!! Hopefully you will understand that and just take my viewpoints for what they are worth. No skin off my nose, for sure.!!! the thing is that that is not proof at all, that is like a mentally ill person who has delusions saying just because they are having those particular experiences that they are real
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 14:09:44 GMT
Hi Men an tol, Are you suggesting that nobody should believe the evidence of their own eyes. What a way to go through life always unsure about what you see. I don't agree with that supposition. I am sure of what I have seen, that is what a brain is designed for, to analyse.!!! Yes, I am suggesting that people do not always correctly understand what they believe that they have seen. In a court of law the visual witness is most often the least reliable and that is the reason that most cases require corroborating evidence. it's even harder to prove when it's happening inside their own head!
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