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UFO Files
Sept 28, 2015 16:43:07 GMT
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 28, 2015 16:43:07 GMT
Hi everybody, I can hardly bear to read what you have all been saying. We as a race of human beings are dumb in comparison to the Aliens who are definitely visiting this earth and have been visiting since at least before the Bible was written, because Alien craft are mentioned in the Bible.
I'm really sick of all the scepticism as to whether they exist. There are Aliens whose intelligence surpasses our primitive minds, so why wouldn't they also have advanced technology that enables them to travel anywhere? I really can't believe that you are saying the things that you are uttering. I feel like screaming in frustation, when it is so obvious that Aliens and their advanced craft exist.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 17:03:11 GMT
Hi everybody, I can hardly bear to read what you have all been saying. We as a race of human beings are dumb in comparison to the Aliens who are definitely visiting this earth and have been visiting since at least before the Bible was written, because Alien craft are mentioned in the Bible. I'm really sick of all the scepticism as to whether they exist. There are Aliens whose intelligence surpasses our primitive minds, so why wouldn't they also have advanced technology that enables them to travel anywhere? I really can't believe that you are saying the things that you are uttering. I feel like screaming in frustation, when it is so obvious that Aliens and their advanced craft exist. Well Scottish Lassie, I'm happy for your that you can be so positive on your conclusions. Of course others may want more evidence than supposition and maybes and guessing, etc. As I said, there are things we don't know, there are many, many things we don't know, and while it would be nice, maybe even comforting, to feel that we know the answers, accepting conclusions not based on solid evidence gains nothing for anyone. So keep on with what you have decided are the answers to these unknown things, for me I'll continue to be the skeptic seek actual evidence.
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UFO Files
Sept 29, 2015 0:38:31 GMT
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 29, 2015 0:38:31 GMT
Hi everybody, I can hardly bear to read what you have all been saying. We as a race of human beings are dumb in comparison to the Aliens who are definitely visiting this earth and have been visiting since at least before the Bible was written, because Alien craft are mentioned in the Bible. I'm really sick of all the scepticism as to whether they exist. There are Aliens whose intelligence surpasses our primitive minds, so why wouldn't they also have advanced technology that enables them to travel anywhere? I really can't believe that you are saying the things that you are uttering. I feel like screaming in frustation, when it is so obvious that Aliens and their advanced craft exist. Well Scottish Lassie, I'm happy for your that you can be so positive on your conclusions. Of course others may want more evidence than supposition and maybes and guessing, etc. As I said, there are things we don't know, there are many, many things we don't know, and while it would be nice, maybe even comforting, to feel that we know the answers, accepting conclusions not based on solid evidence gains nothing for anyone. So keep on with what you have decided are the answers to these unknown things, for me I'll continue to be the skeptic seek actual evidence. Thankyou for your understanding Men an tol, but it is beginning to get to me. You are right, my belief is so strong, not just from my own experiences, but because of the experiences of others from a way back in time. Who were the visitors that were given the name angels and is written about in the Bible? They were certainly different from the norm. My intelligence along with my experiences causes me to think the way that I do and a diet of so much scepticism is getting too much for me, that is certainly true. I apologise for my outburst.
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UFO Files
Sept 29, 2015 10:06:48 GMT
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 29, 2015 10:06:48 GMT
Not a bad list Big Lin. As of this time there is no acceptable evidence of the reality of alien craft visiting the earth. there does seem to be (admittedly supposition) that there is some need in at least some people to accept some theory (without real evidence) as being true. And that may be the real question as to why that is part of some people. Hi Men an tol, Most people know that what they are seeing is not the normal technology that prevails, but is something completely different. So if it doesn't come from this earth then it must come from another planet or dimension, and keep in mind we are not necessarily the most intelligent race of people that inhabits the Universe.
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Post by interestedbob on Sept 29, 2015 14:09:23 GMT
Not a bad list Big Lin. As of this time there is no acceptable evidence of the reality of alien craft visiting the earth. there does seem to be (admittedly supposition) that there is some need in at least some people to accept some theory (without real evidence) as being true. And that may be the real question as to why that is part of some people. Hi Men an tol, Most people know that what they are seeing is not the normal technology that prevails, but is something completely different. So if it doesn't come from this earth then it must come from another planet or dimension, and keep in mind we are not necessarily the most intelligent race of people that inhabits the Universe. No, they don't, Scottish Lassie, and that makes the second part of your argument invalid, because it is based on a false assumption. Like all of us, they merely think they know. They see something they don't recognise or understand, and in most cases, rather than try to find a logical explanation, they assume that because they don't recognise it, nobody else can either, so it must be extraterrestrial or supernatural. I know I have mentioned this dozens of times on various forums, but the International Space Station is a classic example of that attitude. There are dozens of reports on websites of 'UFOs' which are obviously misidentifications of the ISS, given the locations, times, dates, direction of travel, angle above the horizon, times of disappearance, and the angle above the horizon at which they disappear. All that information is predicted and published on various sites, and can be verified, so if a 'UFO' sighting occurs which corresponds precisely with the known visibility of the ISS at that location, and the witness doesn't mention seeing the ISS at the same time, then given the fact that the ISS is usually only visible for at most five or six minutes, at exactly the same time that the UFO was claimed to be visible, it's fairly obvious to anyone but an autobeliever that what was seen was indeed the ISS. What happens when a more sceptical person points out that fact? They are shouted down by the believers, who actually, and this is the crazy bit, accuse the sceptics of having closed minds! Somebody who is determined to completely ignore verifiable evidence rather than consider the possibility that they might not be absolutely correct in their beliefs, has the nerve to tell someone openmindedly trying to work out what really happened that they have a closed mind. I'm sick of having to keep saying this, but sceptics have open minds, they are just not easily convinced by claims without a shred of evidence. Believers and nonbelievers both have closed minds, because they have already decided that aliens do or don't exist, and have no intention of changing their minds. Believers expect us to believe that aliens are visiting, with no verifiable evidence, simply because they believe it. Disbelievers expect us to believe that aliens are not visiting, with no verifiable evidence, simply because they believe it. If you think that a diet of so much scepticism is getting too much for you, Scottish Lassie, start backing up your claims with some evidence that can be verified. Claims that are not supported by evidence fall foul of Hitchen’s Dictum. If you're really interested in finding out a bit about UFOs, or want to check if I'm telling the truth about mistaken reports, do what I have done and spend hours and hours on this site, making sure you read all the comments, as well as the reports. Sadly that site is no longer updated, but there should be more than enough reports there to keep you interested for a while. You may even come across yours truly posting as Grumpy Old Bob, and possibly also as Old Bob. If you have seen a mysterious light and would like to check if what you have seen is likely to have been the ISS, or if you want to see for yourself what it looks like if you have never seen it before, visit this site to find out when it will be visible in your location. You will need to enter your location by clicking the Location Lookup button.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 16:42:23 GMT
Nice piece Bob.
More than just narrowing this to UFOs and associated ideas, it is clearly evident that something is going on, but not what many people think is going on. That is, there seems to be an innate attribute in humans to have everything explained, everything understood, to eliminate unknowns. Obviously this is an important and necessary human character trait without which it is unlikely we would have advanced as far as we have.
There is a downside to this human trait, that is, answering that unknown. We can answer it with a known, a learned known, or we can can answer it with a belief. Such a belief might be true or, more likely, it isn't true. For most things there is little harm in accepting the belief, but periodically it can be disastrous and generally it provides a false paradigm that leads to additional beliefs (assumptions) which are also false.
For some people having an answer (even based on belief) may be comforting, but it is not practical, nor safe, not an advancing of human knowledge. For example, if we still believed that the Earth was the center of the Universe, we would never have gotten into space and never have gotten to other planets and moons.
Accepting those beliefs (whatever they may be) puts in a sort of an 'Alice Through the Looking Glass.' Imagining and hypothesizing is a useful tool when dealing with the world, but to use only such things as if they were solidly accepted leads to wrong conclusions, lack of communication, and mistakes.
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UFO Files
Sept 29, 2015 19:32:29 GMT
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 29, 2015 19:32:29 GMT
Hi Men an tol, Most people know that what they are seeing is not the normal technology that prevails, but is something completely different. So if it doesn't come from this earth then it must come from another planet or dimension, and keep in mind we are not necessarily the most intelligent race of people that inhabits the Universe. No, they don't, Scottish Lassie, and that makes the second part of your argument invalid, because it is based on a false assumption. Like all of us, they merely think they know. They see something they don't recognise or understand, and in most cases, rather than try to find a logical explanation, they assume that because they don't recognise it, nobody else can either, so it must be extraterrestrial or supernatural. I know I have mentioned this dozens of times on various forums, but the International Space Station is a classic example of that attitude. There are dozens of reports on websites of 'UFOs' which are obviously misidentifications of the ISS, given the locations, times, dates, direction of travel, angle above the horizon, times of disappearance, and the angle above the horizon at which they disappear. All that information is predicted and published on various sites, and can be verified, so if a 'UFO' sighting occurs which corresponds precisely with the known visibility of the ISS at that location, and the witness doesn't mention seeing the ISS at the same time, then given the fact that the ISS is usually only visible for at most five or six minutes, at exactly the same time that the UFO was claimed to be visible, it's fairly obvious to anyone but an autobeliever that what was seen was indeed the ISS. What happens when a more sceptical person points out that fact? They are shouted down by the believers, who actually, and this is the crazy bit, accuse the sceptics of having closed minds! Somebody who is determined to completely ignore verifiable evidence rather than consider the possibility that they might not be absolutely correct in their beliefs, has the nerve to tell someone openmindedly trying to work out what really happened that they have a closed mind. I'm sick of having to keep saying this, but sceptics have open minds, they are just not easily convinced by claims without a shred of evidence. Believers and nonbelievers both have closed minds, because they have already decided that aliens do or don't exist, and have no intention of changing their minds. Believers expect us to believe that aliens are visiting, with no verifiable evidence, simply because they believe it. Disbelievers expect us to believe that aliens are not visiting, with no verifiable evidence, simply because they believe it. If you think that a diet of so much scepticism is getting too much for you, Scottish Lassie, start backing up your claims with some evidence that can be verified. Claims that are not supported by evidence fall foul of Hitchen’s Dictum. If you're really interested in finding out a bit about UFOs, or want to check if I'm telling the truth about mistaken reports, do what I have done and spend hours and hours on this site, making sure you read all the comments, as well as the reports. Sadly that site is no longer updated, but there should be more than enough reports there to keep you interested for a while. You may even come across yours truly posting as Grumpy Old Bob, and possibly also as Old Bob. If you have seen a mysterious light and would like to check if what you have seen is likely to have been the ISS, or if you want to see for yourself what it looks like if you have never seen it before, visit this site to find out when it will be visible in your location. You will need to enter your location by clicking the Location Lookup button. Hi Interested Bob, I have seen and recognise the ISS. But there is a great difference between that and an object that travels at a vast speed here and there accross the sky, and it is not a shooting star. My brain still functions, so I am still capable of using my reasoning powers, believe it or not.
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UFO Files
Sept 29, 2015 20:17:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 29, 2015 20:17:09 GMT
Nice piece Bob. More than just narrowing this to UFOs and associated ideas, it is clearly evident that something is going on, but not what many people think is going on. That is, there seems to be an innate attribute in humans to have everything explained, everything understood, to eliminate unknowns. Obviously this is an important and necessary human character trait without which it is unlikely we would have advanced as far as we have. There is a downside to this human trait, that is, answering that unknown. We can answer it with a known, a learned known, or we can can answer it with a belief. Such a belief might be true or, more likely, it isn't true. For most things there is little harm in accepting the belief, but periodically it can be disastrous and generally it provides a false paradigm that leads to additional beliefs (assumptions) which are also false. For some people having an answer (even based on belief) may be comforting, but it is not practical, nor safe, not an advancing of human knowledge. For example, if we still believed that the Earth was the center of the Universe, we would never have gotten into space and never have gotten to other planets and moons. Accepting those beliefs (whatever they may be) puts in a sort of an 'Alice Through the Looking Glass.' Imagining and hypothesizing is a useful tool when dealing with the world, but to use only such things as if they were solidly accepted leads to wrong conclusions, lack of communication, and mistakes. Hi Men an tol, I always thought that before something becomes a belief. A process of the reasoning of your experiences comes first, then the belief, after you have decided whether the experience is true or not. I do not lend myself to the premise of 'blind faith'
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Post by interestedbob on Sept 29, 2015 21:19:14 GMT
Who suggested that your brain doesn't function, Scottish Lassie? I certainly didn't, so please don't imply that I did. What specifically are you referring to when you speak of that object? Please describe in detail what you mean. What do you mean by 'vast speed'? How did you estimate the speed? What do you mean by 'here and there across the sky'? Vague descriptions like that are typical of many UFO reports, and they are effectively useless without more accurate details of precisely what was seen. This is half the reason that UFO reports don't get taken seriously by people outside the UFO community. Where and when was the object seen, and by how many people? How high did it appear to be, and how far away? How fast did it appear to be travelling, compared to, for example, a jet aircraft at a similar distance? Was it showing lights, and if so what colour(s)? Was there any sound? How long was it visible for? Were you able to take a photograph or video? This is the kind of basic information that is needed for a report to make any real sense. I can think of at least one perfectly logical explanation for an object that appears to travel at vast speed and is capable of rapidly changing direction backwards and forwards across the sky, all in perfect silence. Please give me a detailed description of your object, and then we'll see if my explanation might fit. Edit: In fact I can think of at least two possible explanations.
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UFO Files
Sept 30, 2015 1:47:53 GMT
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 30, 2015 1:47:53 GMT
Who suggested that your brain doesn't function, Scottish Lassie? I certainly didn't, so please don't imply that I did. What specifically are you referring to when you speak of that object? Please describe in detail what you mean. What do you mean by 'vast speed'? How did you estimate the speed? What do you mean by 'here and there across the sky'? Vague descriptions like that are typical of many UFO reports, and they are effectively useless without more accurate details of precisely what was seen. This is half the reason that UFO reports don't get taken seriously by people outside the UFO community. Where and when was the object seen, and by how many people? How high did it appear to be, and how far away? How fast did it appear to be travelling, compared to, for example, a jet aircraft at a similar distance? Was it showing lights, and if so what colour(s)? Was there any sound? How long was it visible for? Were you able to take a photograph or video? This is the kind of basic information that is needed for a report to make any real sense. I can think of at least one perfectly logical explanation for an object that appears to travel at vast speed and is capable of rapidly changing direction backwards and forwards across the sky, all in perfect silence. Please give me a detailed description of your object, and then we'll see if my explanation might fit. Edit: In fact I can think of at least two possible explanations. By Golly Interested Bob, You dig too deep for me!!! We all recognise a shooting star so the object is not that. To my reasoning, it is a round solid object such as a Flying Saucer and is flying faster than any known plane, perhaps stopping for a while and then heading off in another directon. That can only be a flying craft of some kind and definitely not a mirage or vapour either as Big Lin suggested.. I think you are toying with me IB. I know what I saw and it was definitely a typical Alien Craft, my reasoning power tells me so, and I won't think otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 2:18:55 GMT
Scottish Lassie, Bob offered the key item for these UFO reports. The ambiguity, the general nature, the descriptions without being specific, do nothing for your cause except make it seem to represent imaginations.
During World War II there were people who were plane spotters. That doesn't mean that they called their superiors and said, “I've seen a plane and it must have been the enemy because it didn't act like one of our planes. I just know it was the enemy because I saw it.”
As I'm sure you can guess, such reporting doesn't count for anything. It is meaningless.
All plane spotters were supplied with books of plane shapes. From those they selected which ones appeared to be what they were seeing. They had ways of judging altitude, of judging distance, and judging speed, and judging directions. Even then such sightings were not taken as true but had to have separate supporting sightings.
The reasons for this is that personal sightings are are known to be notoriously inaccurate.
Just consider, there are millions and millions of people with cameras and now with video cameras and now phones that take pictures. Nearly the entire world is covered. And yet, not a single verified sighting that can be used as solid evidence.
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UFO Files
Sept 30, 2015 4:48:54 GMT
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 30, 2015 4:48:54 GMT
Scottish Lassie, Bob offered the key item for these UFO reports. The ambiguity, the general nature, the descriptions without being specific, do nothing for your cause except make it seem to represent imaginations. During World War II there were people who were plane spotters. That doesn't mean that they called their superiors and said, “I've seen a plane and it must have been the enemy because it didn't act like one of our planes. I just know it was the enemy because I saw it.” As I'm sure you can guess, such reporting doesn't count for anything. It is meaningless. All plane spotters were supplied with books of plane shapes. From those they selected which ones appeared to be what they were seeing. They had ways of judging altitude, of judging distance, and judging speed, and judging directions. Even then such sightings were not taken as true but had to have separate supporting sightings. The reasons for this is that personal sightings are are known to be notoriously inaccurate. Just consider, there are millions and millions of people with cameras and now with video cameras and now phones that take pictures. Nearly the entire world is covered. And yet, not a single verified sighting that can be used as solid evidence. Hi Men an tol, as a married woman with a whole lot of children, it has just been a case of work and more work. I had no time for myself. It is only now that I have the time to post on the Internet. There is always work to be done, so that eats up a good deal of your time. I have a vegetable garden so that is hard work, with all that is entailed. As for spotting the differences between planes, there would be a bit of difficulty there, because the planes have a similar shape. But you can't mistake a completely round shape that is definitely not the norm so what else could it be? Perhaps all that we comprehend is maybe not real at all, everything that we hear and see is maybe nothing but our imagination? Why believe anything in that case? I am just going to go ahead and believe what I believe according to what I am experiencing and have experienced. I just don't have the time to investigate any further. I have other interests I also checked old UFO reports. I haven't made use of the other link yet.
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Post by interestedbob on Sept 30, 2015 12:23:54 GMT
Scottish Lassie, what on earth do you mean about me digging too deep? All I'm asking for is the basic information about what you saw, so we can try to get some idea of what it might have been. You haven't yet given any kind of coherent description of what you saw, just vague hints, yet you claim it as proof that aliens are definitely visiting Earth. I am most certainly not 'toying with you', I have far better things to do with my time. I just want to stop messing around and get to the point. Why are you evading the questions about what you saw? Please give us some basic information, such as I outlined in my previous post. I have already said that I have two possible theories that might explain your sighting, based on my limited knowledge of what you saw, and I'm more than happy to rule them out completely if your evidence shows them to be wrong, but I can't do that until I know what your information is. You keep saying you want to find out about UFOs, but you don't seem to want to get involved in any kind of serious discussion about anything specific. I suspect that may be why you are not made welcome on some UFO forums. I don't agree with all their views, but there are some very intelligent people on some of those forums, and most of them insist on proper, logical debates. That statement makes it absolutely clear that you are not the least bit interested in finding out what the truth about UFOs might be. You have a closed mind on the subject, and just want everyone to accept your beliefs as facts, without giving a shred of evidence to support your claims. Like everyone else on here, I'm ready and willing to discuss the subject if you really are interested in a sensible debate, but I won't waste any more of my time if all you want to do is talk about vague generalities and your own rigid beliefs. The choice is yours.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 13:11:24 GMT
Bob, I suspect that I am not offering anything here to which you are not aware.
I have found that there are people who apparently want to be accepted as some authority on some subject and enter into discussions about the subject being addressed. Then when others ask for specifics these same people withdraw citing too many 'other' demands on their time to provide the specific information and instead say that others are attacking them or being unreasonable or some other excuse that makes them a victim. This is not unique to the subject of UFOs and aliens but rather seems to be a type of communication that is centered on that individual and not the primary subject.
I have come to believe that (for whatever reason) there are people who have no desire to seek actual facts, to seek truth, have no real interest in sources, and no interest to find common ground, rather they simply wish to be accepted as an authoritative source simply because they say they are an authoritative source.
In a different venue I have been involved in exchanges with someone who expounds with assumed authority on the subject of the Constitution of the United States. When actual facts with sources are pointed out he reverts to being the victim with accusations that we (who offer actual citations, case law, papers, etc.) are skewing the facts for base political reasons. Obviously the details are different as compared to to the subject of UFOs and aliens, but the pattern is much the same. No real desire to enter into dialog.
In my opinion this lack of specifics seem to be in many areas of life and not just in the Internet (where one might expect it as we all do not have to backup what we say) such as the university environment which I have found rife with such attitudes, and yes, it gets very tiresome when running into such apparent attitudes. Who knows, maybe this is a result of some genetic difference or at the very least a taught cultural bias.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Oct 1, 2015 1:10:47 GMT
Scottish Lassie, what on earth do you mean about me digging too deep? All I'm asking for is the basic information about what you saw, so we can try to get some idea of what it might have been. You haven't yet given any kind of coherent description of what you saw, just vague hints, yet you claim it as proof that aliens are definitely visiting Earth. I am most certainly not 'toying with you', I have far better things to do with my time. I just want to stop messing around and get to the point. Why are you evading the questions about what you saw? Please give us some basic information, such as I outlined in my previous post. I have already said that I have two possible theories that might explain your sighting, based on my limited knowledge of what you saw, and I'm more than happy to rule them out completely if your evidence shows them to be wrong, but I can't do that until I know what your information is. You keep saying you want to find out about UFOs, but you don't seem to want to get involved in any kind of serious discussion about anything specific. I suspect that may be why you are not made welcome on some UFO forums. I don't agree with all their views, but there are some very intelligent people on some of those forums, and most of them insist on proper, logical debates. That statement makes it absolutely clear that you are not the least bit interested in finding out what the truth about UFOs might be. You have a closed mind on the subject, and just want everyone to accept your beliefs as facts, without giving a shred of evidence to support your claims. Like everyone else on here, I'm ready and willing to discuss the subject if you really are interested in a sensible debate, but I won't waste any more of my time if all you want to do is talk about vague generalities and your own rigid beliefs. The choice is yours. Hi Interested Bob, I am not an Einstein, I am just a simple person interested in the belief that Alien Flying Craft do exist and are able to travel to this world because of their advanced inteliigence. There is no way whatsoever that I would be able to provide you with what you require. I have no technical knowledge of how to guage distance and speed at my fingertips. You may have all this information in your head or you are able to get it from your ability to browse the Internet. I am unable to do either, so I am limited in regard to having the information that you seek. If you think it is beneath you to converse with me, then so be it. I have at no time tried to pass myself off as anything other that what I am. a person who is interested in lots of topics, but not as an expert.. I am a member of a few forums just so I can discuss with others, certain issues of interest. I was hoping to learn the things of which I have no knowledge but I am not a doormat or a yes man. I believe what I believe which is everyone's prerogative, if I can't find it within me to accept someone's viewpoint, then I won't. I must at all times be true to myself first and foremost, but I do respect people and have everyon's best interests at heart. My parents have been my role models, consequently I was brought ip to consider others and to treat everyone kindly and with respect.
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