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Post by june on Jan 10, 2011 20:37:41 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12150161Witnesses said Jared Loughner opened fire with an automatic firearm in a supermarket where Ms Giffords was holding an event to meet her constituents. He was then wrestled to the ground. The weapon has been identified as a Glock 19 9mm semi-automatic pistol which Mr Loughner purchased legally at a sports store in Tucson, Arizona, on 30 November, 2010. Authorities say he had finished one magazine of bullets and was attempting to load a second when an unidentified woman ripped the gun away from him Among the dead were a nine-year-old girl and a federal judge. A total of 14 people were injured, in addition to the six who were killed. YUP - you should be mighty proud of your right to bear arms America!
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Post by pumpkinette on Jan 11, 2011 6:02:48 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12150161Witnesses said Jared Loughner opened fire with an automatic firearm in a supermarket where Ms Giffords was holding an event to meet her constituents. He was then wrestled to the ground. The weapon has been identified as a Glock 19 9mm semi-automatic pistol which Mr Loughner purchased legally at a sports store in Tucson, Arizona, on 30 November, 2010. Authorities say he had finished one magazine of bullets and was attempting to load a second when an unidentified woman ripped the gun away from him Among the dead were a nine-year-old girl and a federal judge. A total of 14 people were injured, in addition to the six who were killed. YUP - you should be mighty proud of your right to bear arms America! I know 1st hand from my family tragedy that people will use ANYTHING they can to kill. There were NO guns where I lived (which is where our tragedy happened). Knives were used instead. If someone wants to kill they WILL find a way!
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Post by june on Jan 11, 2011 7:23:22 GMT
But a gun makes it much easier!
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 11, 2011 8:01:17 GMT
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Post by trubble on Jan 11, 2011 11:08:25 GMT
But that still doesn't refute that a gun makes it easier.
Even in my most angry and depressed states, I could never have managed to kill 10 people by knife or rope or even poison.
But a gun..... okay, I'm not saying I would have managed double figures but I can recall a couple of times where I might have at least stroked the gun... and.... well, I'm not a great aim. Look, a gun would make it possible where otherwise it would be impossible.
Let's move on.
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Post by trubble on Jan 11, 2011 16:22:46 GMT
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Post by pumpkinette on Jan 11, 2011 17:50:31 GMT
But a gun makes it much easier! Please realize that MANY evil dictators through history have DISARMED their slaves! It's disgusting! They WANT a disarmed public in order to have less trouble. When I learned this a few years ago, it was mind-blowing. It was something I NEEDED to learn! Also, a big reason there IS a 2nd amendment to the US Constitution is because the founding fathers of the US plus the 1's who came after them KNEW FROM EXPERIENCE how these ###*** dictators disarmed the people to make them easier to manage and LESS free. Should CARS be banned because some ###*** get drunk and hit people with them? NO! Guns are the same way. It's the ###*** like the 1 this thread is about who choose to do this evil. If he hadn't been able to get a gun, he would have found a knife, etc., whatever it took!
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Post by trubble on Jan 11, 2011 21:04:15 GMT
But a gun makes it much easier! Please realize that MANY evil dictators through history have DISARMED their slaves! It's disgusting! They WANT a disarmed public in order to have less trouble. When I learned this a few years ago, it was mind-blowing. It was something I NEEDED to learn! Also, a big reason there IS a 2nd amendment to the US Constitution is because the founding fathers of the US plus the 1's who came after them KNEW FROM EXPERIENCE how these ###*** dictators disarmed the people to make them easier to manage and LESS free. It's true that that is often quoted as the reson the amendment exists, and in times of huge civil wars there is some sense to that protection. I am truly, truly sorry that you feel that insecure about your 21st Century country. Don't you think you'd notice if someone tried to bring in a dictatorship in America? It must be one of the most watched and documented countries in the world. Land of the free, my ass, apparently. Land of the armed and alarmist, all ready for hostile takeover. 1. Perhaps cars should be banned. It's worth discussing. 2. You'll have noticed that drunk drivers are banned. Perhaps more state control over gun ownership might be equally appropriate? 3. A car is primarily a transportation tool. A gun has only one purpose. Yes. It is. But trying to pretend that the gun was irrelevant is an injustice to the victims. You don't know that and it's disrespectful to assert it so strongly.
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♫anna♫
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The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 11, 2011 21:23:18 GMT
But a gun makes it much easier! I concede that using a gun as a weapon may influence the "thrill killer" as to who his victims will be. Thrill killers who only have a knife tend to attack the defenseless. Take a look at the serial attacks of knife killers against school children in China! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Chinese_school_attacks
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Post by june on Jan 11, 2011 22:20:11 GMT
Good post Trubble - I agree with all your points.
I don't get the American obsession with firearms.
I can understand wanting something for Game shooting (if that is your bag) but, why does ANYONE need to own Glock? Personal protection? My arse!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 11, 2011 23:28:50 GMT
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 12, 2011 0:01:18 GMT
Please realize that MANY evil dictators through history have DISARMED their slaves! It's disgusting! They WANT a disarmed public in order to have less trouble. When I learned this a few years ago, it was mind-blowing. It was something I NEEDED to learn! Also, a big reason there IS a 2nd amendment to the US Constitution is because the founding fathers of the US plus the 1's who came after them KNEW FROM EXPERIENCE how these ###*** dictators disarmed the people to make them easier to manage and LESS free. It's true that that is often quoted as the reson the amendment exists, and in times of huge civil wars there is some sense to that protection. I am truly, truly sorry that you feel that insecure about your 21st Century country. Don't you think you'd notice if someone tried to bring in a dictatorship in America? It must be one of the most watched and documented countries in the world. Land of the free, my ass, apparently. Land of the armed and alarmist, all ready for hostile takeover. 1. Perhaps cars should be banned. It's worth discussing. 2. You'll have noticed that drunk drivers are banned. Perhaps more state control over gun ownership might be equally appropriate? 3. A car is primarily a transportation tool. A gun has only one purpose. Yes. It is. But trying to pretend that the gun was irrelevant is an injustice to the victims. You don't know that and it's disrespectful to assert it so strongly. If only one of those defenseless victims had a gun and shot back we would have another case supporting the right to self defense, which includes the right to bear arms!!
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Post by trubble on Jan 12, 2011 2:46:25 GMT
Please note: Lack of gun control has just produced 14 unarmed victims, including a little girl. And there have been more, and there will be more. As for good ol' Hitler, you must be joking. I am going to presume you are, because you cannot be equating Hitler with discussing limiting the amount of ammunition you can buy for one load (from 30 to 10 in this case -- please note that the gunman was apprehended whilst changing his pack, after 30 shots, perhaps if it had only been 10....well, who knows, but do we need 30?) or discussing limiting who you sell guns to, or what references are needed, and so on. Here. Have some toast. ;D
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Post by trubble on Jan 12, 2011 2:48:36 GMT
If only one of those defenseless victims had a gun and shot back we would have another case supporting the right to self defense, which includes the right to bear arms!! Why didn't they? You have the right to bear arms so why didn't they? I don't think this argument is going to work, do you?
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Post by trubble on Jan 12, 2011 2:49:35 GMT
Good post Trubble - I agree with all your points. I don't get the American obsession with firearms.I can understand wanting something for Game shooting (if that is your bag) but, why does ANYONE need to own Glock? Personal protection? My arse! Thanks, and me neither, I suppose it must be a cultural thing?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 11:43:38 GMT
I would be a little surprised if the congresswoman didn't have some kind of security, such as an armed bodyguard.
I strongly suspect that the reason the gunman wasn't shot was because he was moving, and firing at him could have bagged a few other innocent lives.
If all the gunman had had was a knife, and his intended victim was the injured woman, I doubt if he would have got near her to inflict a wound. And even if he had, there wouldn't be half a dozen other victims..
Just to add, I've discovered there was no security because the shootings took place at an informal event. I haven't found out if the gunman has a licence; presumably not, because he is was known to the police. And to be fair, anyone can get hold of a gun, even in Britain.
But I stand by my remarks about the difficulty of shooting a gunman who is moving around in a crowd.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 12, 2011 18:18:00 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12150161Witnesses said Jared Loughner opened fire with an automatic firearm in a supermarket where Ms Giffords was holding an event to meet her constituents. He was then wrestled to the ground. The weapon has been identified as a Glock 19 9mm semi-automatic pistol which Mr Loughner purchased legally at a sports store in Tucson, Arizona, on 30 November, 2010. Authorities say he had finished one magazine of bullets and was attempting to load a second when an unidentified woman ripped the gun away from him Among the dead were a nine-year-old girl and a federal judge. A total of 14 people were injured, in addition to the six who were killed. YUP - you should be mighty proud of your right to bear arms America! of course we should be, since NO rational person would suggest that the right to own guns has anything whatsoever to do with this crime. of course, the gun grabber looney tunes always come out of the woodwork when there is a shooting
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 12, 2011 18:23:36 GMT
I would be a little surprised if the congresswoman didn't have some kind of security, such as an armed bodyguard. I strongly suspect that the reason the gunman wasn't shot was because he was moving, and firing at him could have bagged a few other innocent lives. If all the gunman had had was a knife, and his intended victim was the injured woman, I doubt if he would have got near her to inflict a wound. And even if he had, there wouldn't be half a dozen other victims.. Just to add, I've discovered there was no security because the shootings took place at an informal event. I haven't found out if the gunman has a licence; presumably not, because he is was known to the police. And to be fair, anyone can get hold of a gun, even in Britain. But I stand by my remarks about the difficulty of shooting a gunman who is moving around in a crowd. anyone can get hold of a gun, even in Britain. exactly, which is what makes the gun grabber nutjobs lunatical idea that criminals obey the law even more pathetic. hell, england's total gun ban works so well that five 13-15 year olds can shoot and kill an eleven year old boy to steal his bicycle.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 18:46:51 GMT
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 12, 2011 20:15:50 GMT
i know he got it legally. someone just dropped the ball. there is supposed to be a five day waiting period while they do checks on you before you can take possession of the gun. someone didn't do the checks, since this chap was fairly well known to be looney. the founding fathers specifically excluded criminals and crazies from the right to bear arms. nonetheless, the gun grabbers,who keep screaming that criminals obey the law are proven ever more looney. it wouldn't matter if they did, since, it's been conclusively proven time and again that banning guns does not prevent gun crime. hell, in the u.s., the two cities with virtually total gun bans, d.c. and chicago, are the two cities with the highest murder rate in the country. very first grader knows that banning guns is an imbecillic idea
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