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Post by jollyroger on Jan 12, 2011 21:43:24 GMT
It's true that that is often quoted as the reson the amendment exists, and in times of huge civil wars there is some sense to that protection. I am truly, truly sorry that you feel that insecure about your 21st Century country. Don't you think you'd notice if someone tried to bring in a dictatorship in America? It must be one of the most watched and documented countries in the world. Land of the free, my ass, apparently. Land of the armed and alarmist, all ready for hostile takeover. 1. Perhaps cars should be banned. It's worth discussing. 2. You'll have noticed that drunk drivers are banned. Perhaps more state control over gun ownership might be equally appropriate? 3. A car is primarily a transportation tool. A gun has only one purpose. Yes. It is. But trying to pretend that the gun was irrelevant is an injustice to the victims. You don't know that and it's disrespectful to assert it so strongly. If only one of those defenseless victims had a gun and shot back we would have another case supporting the right to self defense, which includes the right to bear arms!! OR, they wouldn't have had a clue how to use it and there would be more dead people, but hey...... if packing heat gives you a stiffy why let victims get in the way of the right to carry a gun.
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Post by jollyroger on Jan 12, 2011 21:45:09 GMT
You'll love this Miss Anna...
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 12, 2011 22:48:20 GMT
If only one of those defenseless victims had a gun and shot back we would have another case supporting the right to self defense, which includes the right to bear arms!! Why didn't they? You have the right to bear arms so why didn't they? I don't think this argument is going to work, do you? Dearest Trubble! We all know that potential burglars scout out the houses they break into! Which window sticker above would deter the average burglar from breaking and entering?
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 12, 2011 22:52:21 GMT
Please note: Lack of gun control has just produced 14 unarmed victims, including a little girl. And there have been more, and there will be more. As for good ol' Hitler, you must be joking. I am going to presume you are, because you cannot be equating Hitler with discussing limiting the amount of ammunition you can buy for one load (from 30 to 10 in this case -- please note that the gunman was apprehended whilst changing his pack, after 30 shots, perhaps if it had only been 10....well, who knows, but do we need 30?) or discussing limiting who you sell guns to, or what references are needed, and so on. Here. Have some toast. ;D You have admit that tyrants can only rule after they disarm the population!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 12, 2011 23:16:47 GMT
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Post by pumpkinette on Jan 13, 2011 6:21:29 GMT
Please realize that MANY evil dictators through history have DISARMED their slaves! It's disgusting! They WANT a disarmed public in order to have less trouble. When I learned this a few years ago, it was mind-blowing. It was something I NEEDED to learn! Also, a big reason there IS a 2nd amendment to the US Constitution is because the founding fathers of the US plus the 1's who came after them KNEW FROM EXPERIENCE how these ###*** dictators disarmed the people to make them easier to manage and LESS free. It's true that that is often quoted as the reson the amendment exists, and in times of huge civil wars there is some sense to that protection. I am truly, truly sorry that you feel that insecure about your 21st Century country. Don't you think you'd notice if someone tried to bring in a dictatorship in America? It must be one of the most watched and documented countries in the world. Land of the free, my ass, apparently. Land of the armed and alarmist, all ready for hostile takeover. 1. Perhaps cars should be banned. It's worth discussing. 2. You'll have noticed that drunk drivers are banned. Perhaps more state control over gun ownership might be equally appropriate? 3. A car is primarily a transportation tool. A gun has only one purpose. Yes. It is. But trying to pretend that the gun was irrelevant is an injustice to the victims. You don't know that and it's disrespectful to assert it so strongly. Small list of executive orders, etc., that have ALREADY taken away the freedoms of many US citizens: Patriot Act Presidential directive 51 Military commissions act There's more things I could list. Are you serious when you say that the fears that those is the US have of the above and MORE like them are JUST insecurity? The fact is that many have ALREADY lost their freedoms OVER TIME. What's happening is it's being done GRADUALLY. I think if it weren't this way that there would have already been some kind of huge revolution! The ##*** who start these evils KNOW that the gradual approach is the safest and most convenient way for them to do it! An FYI, another reason to have guns is for those who live in the country to protect their animals from predators (like chickens from wolves, etc.) and also to put their animals out of their misery quickly if they're already hurt and are going to die, i.e., there's nothing more the veterinarian can do, etc.
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Post by pumpkinette on Jan 13, 2011 6:28:49 GMT
Please realize that MANY evil dictators through history have DISARMED their slaves! It's disgusting! They WANT a disarmed public in order to have less trouble. When I learned this a few years ago, it was mind-blowing. It was something I NEEDED to learn! Also, a big reason there IS a 2nd amendment to the US Constitution is because the founding fathers of the US plus the 1's who came after them KNEW FROM EXPERIENCE how these ###*** dictators disarmed the people to make them easier to manage and LESS free. It's true that that is often quoted as the reson the amendment exists, and in times of huge civil wars there is some sense to that protection. I am truly, truly sorry that you feel that insecure about your 21st Century country. Don't you think you'd notice if someone tried to bring in a dictatorship in America? It must be one of the most watched and documented countries in the world. Land of the free, my ass, apparently. Land of the armed and alarmist, all ready for hostile takeover. 1. Perhaps cars should be banned. It's worth discussing. 2. You'll have noticed that drunk drivers are banned. Perhaps more state control over gun ownership might be equally appropriate? 3. A car is primarily a transportation tool. A gun has only one purpose. Yes. It is. But trying to pretend that the gun was irrelevant is an injustice to the victims. You don't know that and it's disrespectful to assert it so strongly. I don't know that people who want to kill will use other weapons if there's not a gun around? Really? It happened in my OWN FAMILY. Also, MANY serial killers DON'T USE GUNS! They tend to be used by what are known as "spree killers" or "mass murderers". Many serial killers enjoy using their hands (Ted Bundy was 1 example) and NOT guns. It's not disrespectful for me to talk about the facts of my familys' case. Where do you get this? I say the more we MVS talk about our cases the better! And a PART of our case was the FACT that no gun was there so knives were used instead. You're right in that if this ###*** in Arizona had used a knife instead the damage done would have been less in the same time period, but do you really think that this ###*** wouldn't have use a knife or something else if he couldn't have gotten that gun? Seriously? Also, my familys' case isn't the only 1 where people chose to use other weapons besides guns. What about the many murders caused by poison?
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Post by trubble on Jan 13, 2011 10:33:52 GMT
Condolences, Pumpkinette. Yes. It is. But trying to pretend that the gun was irrelevant is an injustice to the victims. You don't know that and it's disrespectful to assert it so strongly. I don't know that people who want to kill will use other weapons if there's not a gun around? Really? It happened in my OWN FAMILY. Also, MANY serial killers DON'T USE GUNS! They tend to be used by what are known as "spree killers" or "mass murderers". Many serial killers enjoy using their hands (Ted Bundy was 1 example) and NOT guns. It's not disrespectful for me to talk about the facts of my familys' case. Where do you get this? I say the more we MVS talk about our cases the better! And a PART of our case was the FACT that no gun was there so knives were used instead. I had no idea we were talking about your case. I thought you were talking about the shootings in Tucsan. Yep. I think it's perfectly plausible, yes. He seems to have been a disturbed man, perhaps only temporarily, and not someone from a background of knife use. I think there's no way that either you or I can judge this accurately but that there is nothing to suggest he had the skills or rage to knife down even one person. His urge to kill may have passed. Temporary. It may not have surpassed the difficulties of other methods. I imagine, in a gun culture, that a gun makes it quite easy to kill spontaenously. ? You just need to get your pluck up for such a short time, and not as much physical exertion as other methods....? No one's arguing that guns are the only way to murder someone. Murder is probably as old as the human race. In this case, though, even you agree that the gun caused more problems than had he not had a gun. Which leads one to an obvious conclusion that gun ownership, in this case, was a contributing factor to these deaths. Which begs the questions -- what could have been done to stop this, and what could be done to stop it happening again?
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Post by trubble on Jan 13, 2011 10:42:49 GMT
Um... yeah, I am serious when I say that American laws, rules, govt control, etc hasn't got anywhere near the sort of scenario that would require the greater public to mount an armed coup.
For pity's sake.
While there are many reasons to be angry and suspicious with those in power, it's a matter of fine tuning, not dictatorship, it's not Nazi Wartime Germany, it's not Myanmar, it's not Tiannamen Square. Ok?
What I find slightly perturbing is that it's this sort of overblown fear and OTT distrust that seems to have sent the shooter of the edge. The same argument that says you need guns desperately is the reasoning behind this killing of innocents in Arizona.
Even in 'gun-free' countries, where gun control is at its strictest, in Ireland where I live, for example, farmers and associated rural concerns own guns for these purposes. So that's not an issue and probably never will be.
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Post by trubble on Jan 13, 2011 10:46:16 GMT
Please note: Lack of gun control has just produced 14 unarmed victims, including a little girl. And there have been more, and there will be more. As for good ol' Hitler, you must be joking. I am going to presume you are, because you cannot be equating Hitler with discussing limiting the amount of ammunition you can buy for one load (from 30 to 10 in this case -- please note that the gunman was apprehended whilst changing his pack, after 30 shots, perhaps if it had only been 10....well, who knows, but do we need 30?) or discussing limiting who you sell guns to, or what references are needed, and so on. Here. Have some toast. ;D You have admit that tyrants can only rule after they disarm the population!Anna, do you consider the British to be ruled by tyrants? The Irish? Who are you talking about? Do you really consider that America would become a military dictatorship if the public did not own guns? Because..... that's what you are saying.
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Post by trubble on Jan 13, 2011 10:51:28 GMT
Interesting. from the article: Dear Anti-Gun-Control Posters, Would it be so awful to turn the system around so that instead of going through checks to be disqualified, you go through checks to qualify? Then, at least, the delay in checks would merely slow down getting a gun rather than let fruitloops through a loophole. Whaddaya say?
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Post by trubble on Jan 13, 2011 10:54:52 GMT
Pumpkinette and Anna, in your suspicion that gun control is a way of disarming the public so that a dictator can take over America, do you ever ponder on the more plausible 'conspiracy' that the Weapons Industry is already controlling you - perhaps whipping up this ''need'' for guns?
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Post by trubble on Jan 13, 2011 10:57:04 GMT
As usual i don't respond to posts with any vulgar or obscene connotations. The westboro church thread title doesn't count?
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Post by trubble on Jan 13, 2011 11:01:45 GMT
Why didn't they? You have the right to bear arms so why didn't they? I don't think this argument is going to work, do you? Dearest Trubble! We all know that potential burglars scout out the houses they break into! Which window sticker above would deter the average burglar from breaking and entering?I'm not for sticker control, particularly. I used to own some stickers myself. Nowadays I've switched to magnets. I am totally against magnet control. Totally.
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Post by june on Jan 13, 2011 11:20:42 GMT
These are my principles - if you don't like those I have others...... ;D As usual i don't respond to posts with any vulgar or obscene connotations. The westboro church thread title doesn't count?
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Post by pumpkinette on Jan 13, 2011 13:17:52 GMT
Interesting. from the article: Dear Anti-Gun-Control Posters, Would it be so awful to turn the system around so that instead of going through checks to be disqualified, you go through checks to qualify? Then, at least, the delay in checks would merely slow down getting a gun rather than let fruitloops through a loophole. Whaddaya say? There already ARE laws in place to screen those who buy guns. I think a lot of them came into effect after John Hinckley tried to kill President Ronald Reagan in the early 1980's. You've probably heard of the Brady Bill. That came about from the attempt on Reagan. However, there's still ###*** that manage to get guns. The killer of John Lennon is 1 example. An FYI, I'm FOR these checks on people to GET guns! There have been a few abuses of these, though. But, overall, from what I know about them, I think they WORK most of the time. Please don't assume that those of us who are against the worst kinds of gun control also aren't for screening those who want to buy them!
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 13, 2011 13:41:45 GMT
REALITY!!! we already have strict gun control laws. that is what makes the gun grabber nutjobs whining so pathetic. their constant screaming that criminals obey the law is all the more ridiculous in the face of the FACT that we have such stringent gun control laws. this chap, as well as the virginia tech shooter, bought their guns from a licensed dealer. in this lad's case, the law was not followed. had the proper checks been done, he would not have been able to buy a gun legally. of course, he would still have bought a gun. an absolute gun ban would not have prevented him from acquiring a gun. the moronic gun grabber nuts have had their little idiocy proven wrong over and over again. the simple FACT is that, as long as any military, police, or any other official agnecy has guns, criminals will have guns. NO rational person would suggest otherwise
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Post by june on Jan 13, 2011 19:31:04 GMT
Dearest Trubble! We all know that potential burglars scout out the houses they break into! Which window sticker above would deter the average burglar from breaking and entering? I'm not for sticker control, particularly. I used to own some stickers myself. Nowadays I've switched to magnets. I am totally against magnet control. Totally. are the different stickers meant to represent some sort of compelling argument
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 17, 2011 5:10:12 GMT
The gunman posted this and other deranged videos on YouTube. It's obvious that he has lost touch with reality. The most dangerous insane people are the ones, who believe they know it all!
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