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Post by sadie1263 on Dec 29, 2010 22:54:06 GMT
msnbc.com
updated 1 hour 45 minutes ago
JOLIET, Ill.— A former Marine who was convicted of second-degree murder in the shooting death of a man whose puppy urinated on his award-winning lawn was sentenced Wednesday to four years probation.
Charles Clements, 69, won't do any jail time for killing his neighbor Joshua Funches, 23, during an argument outside Clements' home. He could have been sentenced to as long as 20 years in prison, The Chicago Tribune reported.
"This is not justice," said Gail Williams, the slain man's aunt, according to the Tribune.
In May 2009, as Funches passed Clements' home while walking his fox terrier, the dog lifted its leg and relieved itself, witnesses said. The two men got into an argument. After Funches cursed at him, Clements pulled out a .45-caliber handgun, then put it back in his pocket, the Tribune reported. Soon after, Funches punched Clements in the face. Clements said Funches was standing still when he redrew the gun and shot him, the Tribune reported.
Funches later died of his injuries.
Funches was the father of three young children, including one born after his death, according to the Tribune.
The Will County state's attorney indicated it would not appeal county Judge Daniel Rozak's sentence. The attorney's office issued a statement following the ruling:
“Given the serious nature of the crime and the evidence presented at trial, the State’s Attorney’s Office asked the judge for a prison sentence for Charles Clements. After presiding over the trial and hearing all the facts and circumstances, the judge determined that probation was an appropriate sentence. He is an excellent judge and we respect his decision.”
The judge told Clements the slaying wasn't about a dog urinating on a lawn, but "about your reaction ... to being yelled at, pushed and punched in the face by a 23-year-old man," the Tribune reported.
Having repeatedly earned University Park's lawn upkeep award, Clements often verbally harassed anyone who stepped near or on his precious grass, neighbors said.
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Over a yard..........absolute insanity.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 29, 2010 23:24:33 GMT
it's a bit over the top, to be sure. however, the chap wasn't shot for his dog pissing in the yard. he was shot for punching the fool. he should have just ignored the clown
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Post by sadie1263 on Dec 30, 2010 1:39:48 GMT
The dog peed on his yard........seriously...........that is what the fight started over.......that's what I find ridiculous......the 23 yr old should have just kept walking and the idiot 69 yr old should not have come outside......much less with a gun.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2010 6:07:19 GMT
I can only think that the court decided it was a reaction to the pain of the punch. Another good reason to ban handguns; what was the silly old fool doing with one in his pocket?
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 30, 2010 14:35:05 GMT
The dog peed on his yard........seriously...........that is what the fight started over.......that's what I find ridiculous......the 23 yr old should have just kept walking and the idiot 69 yr old should not have come outside......much less with a gun. it doesn't say whether or not the chap had a carry permit, but it's not likely in illinois, which has some of the most stringent gun control laws in the country. therefore, he did violate the law by bringing the gun outside his house. there is also the little point that, it doesn't say anything about whether or not the boy was about to punch him again. if he wasn't presenting a threat, you can't shoot him, even in texas. he hadn't stolen anything
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 30, 2010 14:36:51 GMT
I can only think that the court decided it was a reaction to the pain of the punch. Another good reason to ban handguns; what was the silly old fool doing with one in his pocket? since owning a gun is the god given RIGHT of every law abiding citizen, that is not viable. you are correct though that he had no business with the gun in his pocket
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Post by sadie1263 on Dec 30, 2010 15:03:19 GMT
The story does say that the older guy verbally harassed anyone that even STEPPED on his grass!! What a blithering idiot!!!
Good points though.....if he wasn't in imminent threat of being hit again or anything then how did he get away with the shooting.....
I will see if there is more on the story.........
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Post by sadie1263 on Dec 30, 2010 15:32:42 GMT
Well....this is his story.....I have seen others that say the 23yr old had his arms down............ "Man Who Killed Dog Walker Talks for the First Time Updated: Wednesday, 22 Dec 2010, 1:46 PM CST Published : Tuesday, 21 Dec 2010, 8:39 PM CST By Mark Saxenmeyer, FOX Chicago News University Park, Ill. - It's a story that had plenty of people talking this year: Charles Clements, an elderly South Suburban man, shot his neighbor. He was supposedly upset that his neighbor's dog relieved himself on his lawn. The 69-year-old has now been convicted of second degree murder and could be sentenced to anywhere between probation and 40 years in prison. "I am not a demented person. I am not a violent person," Clements said. On Mother's Day, 23-year-old Joshua Funches walked his dog past Clements' house in University Park. Clements said he suspected Funches' dog had been responsible for some dropping he'd found on his property earlier. "The regulations state when you walk your animal, you're supposed to clean up behind it," Clements said. "He sees me sitting on the steps and he's got a smug, defiant look on his face, and then he lets his dog wander on the property." Clements, who's a former Marine and truck driver with no criminal history, admits he takes the maintenance and upkeep of his yard very seriously. He mows his lawn every other day. Clements said he and Funches exchanged words. "I said will you please keep your dog on the sidewalk. He started cursing me and threatening me," Clements said. Clements said that he showed Funches a gun he often takes into the yard -- because there are people "up and down the block who are less than desirable" -- that Funches punched him in the face. "I was bleeding, I was dazed, I was rattled," Clements said. "I don't know if he was getting ready to throw another punch. All I know is that I reacted instinctively. I pulled the weapon, racked a round and fired it. I was a throw back to my military training , my reasoning that when somebody attacks you, and you have a gun, thinking they can overpower you and take you weapon. It's a do or die situation." Funches was hit in the abdomen. He died. "I was in a state of shock. I broke down and cried like a baby," Clements said. Earlier this fall, a jury rejected first-degree murder charges but did find him guilty of second-degree murder. On Tuesday, during a sentencing hearing, attorneys made their final arguments to the judge. "My heart hurts real bad," said Funches' mother after the hearing. "I think now he's remorseful that he's losing everything, but not for what he did." "This was not premeditated," Clements said. "This was a mistake. The most serious mistake i have ever made in my life." In the end, prosecutors didn't suggest to the court just how many years they felt Clements should serve. but the judge could sentence him to as many as 40 years in prison. The judge said he will make his decision on December 29." www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/special_report/charles-clements-joshua-funches-killed-guy-man-dog-lawn-university-park-20101221*********************************** What strikes me..........is that he often sat on his steps with a gun.........that he had no idea if the poop that had been on his yard was from this guy's dog or not.....(and seriously what an idiot)......and he was a former Marine......there were other things he could have done...then just shoot him.
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Post by june on Dec 30, 2010 16:39:06 GMT
I can only think that the court decided it was a reaction to the pain of the punch. Another good reason to ban handguns; what was the silly old fool doing with one in his pocket? since owning a gun is the god given RIGHT of every law abiding citizen, that is not viable. you are correct though that he had no business with the gun in his pocket What a ridiculous post, where does any god grant the right to own a gun. What utter rubbish and nothing to do with god.
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Post by june on Dec 30, 2010 20:35:12 GMT
It's a sad state of affairs when a person thinks it is their right to carry around a loaded weapon. He doesn't need to.
It's even worse when the person actually kills someone over a very minor and stupid neighbourly dispute.
He has no regard for life - perhaps a spell in prison will instill in him the value of liberty and living. Stupid selfish unhinged cretin.
Why are morons like him allowed to have access to forearms - he is obviously not a fit person and sadly that has been proven.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 30, 2010 21:32:32 GMT
It's a sad state of affairs when a person thinks it is their right to carry around a loaded weapon. He doesn't need to. It's even worse when the person actually kills someone over a very minor and stupid neighbourly dispute. He has no regard for life - perhaps a spell in prison will instill in him the value of liberty and living. Stupid selfish unhinged cretin. Why are morons like him allowed to have access to forearms - he is obviously not a fit person and sadly that has been proven. EVERYONE is born with forearms dear. this chap is NOT going to prison. EVERY law abiding person who gets a carry permit has the right to walk around with a gun in his pocket. three strikes. sorry, you're out
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 30, 2010 21:35:58 GMT
since owning a gun is the god given RIGHT of every law abiding citizen, that is not viable. you are correct though that he had no business with the gun in his pocket What a ridiculous post, where does any god grant the right to own a gun. What utter rubbish and nothing to do with god. there is only one god, and yes, it has everything to do with god notwithsatanding that however, the founders of our country were intelligent enough to know that everyone should own a gun, and provided that inalienable right in the constitution
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 30, 2010 21:37:27 GMT
Well....this is his story.....I have seen others that say the 23yr old had his arms down............ "Man Who Killed Dog Walker Talks for the First Time Updated: Wednesday, 22 Dec 2010, 1:46 PM CST Published : Tuesday, 21 Dec 2010, 8:39 PM CST By Mark Saxenmeyer, FOX Chicago News University Park, Ill. - It's a story that had plenty of people talking this year: Charles Clements, an elderly South Suburban man, shot his neighbor. He was supposedly upset that his neighbor's dog relieved himself on his lawn. The 69-year-old has now been convicted of second degree murder and could be sentenced to anywhere between probation and 40 years in prison. "I am not a demented person. I am not a violent person," Clements said. On Mother's Day, 23-year-old Joshua Funches walked his dog past Clements' house in University Park. Clements said he suspected Funches' dog had been responsible for some dropping he'd found on his property earlier. "The regulations state when you walk your animal, you're supposed to clean up behind it," Clements said. "He sees me sitting on the steps and he's got a smug, defiant look on his face, and then he lets his dog wander on the property." Clements, who's a former Marine and truck driver with no criminal history, admits he takes the maintenance and upkeep of his yard very seriously. He mows his lawn every other day. Clements said he and Funches exchanged words. "I said will you please keep your dog on the sidewalk. He started cursing me and threatening me," Clements said. Clements said that he showed Funches a gun he often takes into the yard -- because there are people "up and down the block who are less than desirable" -- that Funches punched him in the face. "I was bleeding, I was dazed, I was rattled," Clements said. "I don't know if he was getting ready to throw another punch. All I know is that I reacted instinctively. I pulled the weapon, racked a round and fired it. I was a throw back to my military training , my reasoning that when somebody attacks you, and you have a gun, thinking they can overpower you and take you weapon. It's a do or die situation." Funches was hit in the abdomen. He died. "I was in a state of shock. I broke down and cried like a baby," Clements said. Earlier this fall, a jury rejected first-degree murder charges but did find him guilty of second-degree murder. On Tuesday, during a sentencing hearing, attorneys made their final arguments to the judge. "My heart hurts real bad," said Funches' mother after the hearing. "I think now he's remorseful that he's losing everything, but not for what he did." "This was not premeditated," Clements said. "This was a mistake. The most serious mistake i have ever made in my life." In the end, prosecutors didn't suggest to the court just how many years they felt Clements should serve. but the judge could sentence him to as many as 40 years in prison. The judge said he will make his decision on December 29." www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/special_report/charles-clements-joshua-funches-killed-guy-man-dog-lawn-university-park-20101221*********************************** What strikes me..........is that he often sat on his steps with a gun.........that he had no idea if the poop that had been on his yard was from this guy's dog or not.....(and seriously what an idiot)......and he was a former Marine......there were other things he could have done...then just shoot him. i don't believe his whole story, but, the judge did, and he's the only one who counts
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Post by june on Dec 30, 2010 22:00:53 GMT
What a ridiculous post, where does any god grant the right to own a gun. What utter rubbish and nothing to do with god. there is only one god, and yes, it has everything to do with god notwithsatanding that however, the founders of our country were intelligent enough to know that everyone should own a gun, and provided that inalienable right in the constitution But God did not write your constitution - and therefore your original staement is bunkum - God does not give you the right to bear arms. Which is just what I said.
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Post by june on Dec 30, 2010 22:15:39 GMT
It's a sad state of affairs when a person thinks it is their right to carry around a loaded weapon. He doesn't need to. It's even worse when the person actually kills someone over a very minor and stupid neighbourly dispute. He has no regard for life - perhaps a spell in prison will instill in him the value of liberty and living. Stupid selfish unhinged cretin. Why are morons like him allowed to have access to forearms - he is obviously not a fit person and sadly that has been proven. EVERYONE is born with forearms dear. this chap is NOT going to prison. EVERY law abiding person who gets a carry permit has the right to walk around with a gun in his pocket. three strikes. sorry, you're out Fire arms - it was an obvious typo Given the idiot murdered someone and wandred around with a gun in his pocket he's not my idea of law abiding. No wonder america is screwed, with that sort of thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2010 8:53:00 GMT
Jumbo, I presume that the jury as well as the judge believed Clements when he said
"I was bleeding, I was dazed, I was rattled.......I don't know if he was getting ready to throw another punch. All I know is that I reacted instinctively. I pulled the weapon, racked a round and fired it. I was a throw back to my military training , my reasoning that when somebody attacks you, and you have a gun, thinking they can overpower you and take you weapon. It's a do or die situation."
Otherwise it would have been first degree murder wouldn't it? I always thought that second degree murder was a little like our manslaughter; homicide with extenuating circumstances.
But if a guy's military training kicks in so that he fires in these circumstances, perhaps we had better stop allowing these highly trained people to carry guns. Along with the untrained, of course, who are probably just as likely to over-react, but have less chance of killing anyone.
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Post by sadie1263 on Dec 31, 2010 18:04:17 GMT
Given the idiot murdered someone and wandred around with a gun in his pocket he's not my idea of law abiding. No wonder america is screwed, with that sort of thinking. No kidding June........if people think they have to protect their frickin' lawn from a fox terrier peeing on it with a gun.......we are screwed!!!
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 31, 2010 23:15:34 GMT
Jumbo, I presume that the jury as well as the judge believed Clements when he said "I was bleeding, I was dazed, I was rattled.......I don't know if he was getting ready to throw another punch. All I know is that I reacted instinctively. I pulled the weapon, racked a round and fired it. I was a throw back to my military training , my reasoning that when somebody attacks you, and you have a gun, thinking they can overpower you and take you weapon. It's a do or die situation." Otherwise it would have been first degree murder wouldn't it? I always thought that second degree murder was a little like our manslaughter; homicide with extenuating circumstances. But if a guy's military training kicks in so that he fires in these circumstances, perhaps we had better stop allowing these highly trained people to carry guns. Along with the untrained, of course, who are probably just as likely to over-react, but have less chance of killing anyone. hell, the chap has been out of the military for a couple of decades or so. that is so lame. if his wife came at him with a frying pan, would he shoot her? i doubt it. he would just take the pan away like any real man. in this case, he could have just punched the boy back and let it go at that the untrained should NEVER have a gun. there's nothing worse than some fool with a gun who either don't know how to use it, or is too chickenshyt to use it. they call fools like that DEAD
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 31, 2010 23:20:43 GMT
there is only one god, and yes, it has everything to do with god notwithsatanding that however, the founders of our country were intelligent enough to know that everyone should own a gun, and provided that inalienable right in the constitution But God did not write your constitution - and therefore your original staement is bunkum - God does not give you the right to bear arms. Which is just what I said. no. since bearing arms is an inherent part of the right to life, and god gave me the right to life, the right to have a gun is included, just like the right to breathe
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 31, 2010 23:24:47 GMT
EVERYONE is born with forearms dear. this chap is NOT going to prison. EVERY law abiding person who gets a carry permit has the right to walk around with a gun in his pocket. three strikes. sorry, you're out Fire arms - it was an obvious typo Given the idiot murdered someone and wandred around with a gun in his pocket he's not my idea of law abiding. No wonder america is screwed, with that sort of thinking. we have to assume that the gun was registered. we can pretty safely assume that the lad did not have a carry permit, since those are few and far between in illinois. he did not have a criminal record, which means that he was a law abiding citizen entitled to own the gun. the number of cases such as this is so minscule as to be nonexistent. there have been over two million gun permits issued in florida, and only 145 have been revoked. only 68 of those were revoked for a gun related crime. you have no rational basis for your assertion whatsoever
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