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Post by jade on Mar 19, 2010 13:43:27 GMT
A true find from another place - ten politically prominent gay guys who tried to hide their gayness by calling for all sorts of gay stuff to be banned: ClicketyClickThen got found out. Truly, you cannot cure it, you cannot hide it, you cannot deny it Maybe its time to live with it. Indeed as population growth is the biggest danger facing the planet perhaps we ought to be encouraging it in those bisexuals who currently are dunned into denying and hiding their leanings
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Mar 19, 2010 14:04:09 GMT
And Mary Magdaleine was a prostitute, who opposed prostitution! Most cigarette smokers admit that smoking is a bad thing too, etc. etc..
There is no such thing as a human being free of weaknesses, failings and sin, if i may use this anti-PC term!
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Post by jade on Mar 19, 2010 14:51:09 GMT
a prostitute can hold whatever views s/he likes - its being in a power position and using that power to oppose your own nature that makes them hypocrits
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Mar 19, 2010 15:26:25 GMT
a prostitute can hold whatever views s/he likes - its being in a power position and using that power to oppose your own nature that makes them hypocrits Dearest Jade, Are you saying that say for example any cigarette smoker, politican or otherwise, who supports anti-cigarette laws, etc. is a hypocrite?
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Post by jade on Mar 19, 2010 15:31:58 GMT
I think that someone who practices in private something they condemn in public is a hypocrite, yes
And this is the more appalling if they are legislating concerning that practice
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 16:29:27 GMT
Once I worked in a drop in centre, and one man in particular kept voicing his opinion about "nonces" and whether they should be banned.
Guess who got arrested for abusing children? I don't think he was a hypocrite, though; it is more likley tht he was trying avoid anyone even considering he might be one himself. It could be so with these gay men; a desperate (and as it turns out unsuccessful) attempt to keep the homophobes away.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Mar 19, 2010 16:33:28 GMT
I think that someone who practices in private something they condemn in public is a hypocrite, yes And this is the more appalling if they are legislating concerning that practice I read your examples on the first post! If these politicans are trying to battle an affliction that they have and prevent others from developping in that manner i don't see where the problem is! Do they have to be "approving" of this stuff! We are all sinners! The fact that many of us try to especially fight the particular sins that are written in our hearts by having a particularly negative attitude about them is not reprehensible!
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Post by trubble on Mar 19, 2010 18:04:05 GMT
You are all making interesting points so I thought I should look up these Top Ten ''Gay Liars'' for myself. 1. Troy King - The list describes him as ''known for his vocal opposition to gay rights and for his attempt to outlaw sex-toys''... Firstly, those are two separate issues. Surely being opposed to sex toys is irrelevant to this topic. Also, it appears that rather than champion a law to ban them, he took over the already ongoing case when he took the job of Attorney General. Besides, his job in the case was defending the already existing law banning such items. Now I'm very dubious about that list. It clearly has an agenda that permits it to twist the truth around a little bit. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_KingThere's a lot on wiki about his conservative policies but nothing about gay-bashing. There's something on a google search about some letters he wrote in college. Can anyone tell me what anti-gay stuff he has said? He certainly appears never to have legislated against gay rights. The rumours on the net about his wife finding him bed with a man appear wholly unsubstantiated by any reputable source. That doesn't mean they are not true but... ...you read the bit about him having a wife and kids, yeah? Are we sure he's gay? Or a liar? Seems a little borderline to me.
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Post by Synonym on Mar 19, 2010 18:56:05 GMT
I think that someone who practices in private something they condemn in public is a hypocrite, yes They may believe that what they are doing is wrong and they are wrong for doing it, but as others have said, they may be 'weak-willed'. With that in mind, they may look upon it as trying to dissuade others from getting into those activities, and becoming 'addicted' themselves. Would a cocaine addict be hypocritical for voting against it. Still, pity that they can't just change their mind about the wrongness of gay sex, and just get on with it without causing anyone any harm, as it does not.
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Post by trubble on Mar 19, 2010 19:04:09 GMT
2. Jim West The list says: "However, for 25 years, West was having sexual relationships with boys and young men from his community..." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_E._West_(politician) Wiki says: " In 2005, while Mayor of Spokane, Washington, he was the target of allegations of the sexual abuse of boys twenty years earlier. These allegations became public after West became a target of a sting operation conducted by his hometown newspaper, the Spokesman Review. He admitted to engaging in homosexual behavior with adults in recent years, despite an earlier record of supporting "anti-gay" legislation. Though never charged, he was removed from office by recall in 2005. The Federal Bureau of Investigation eventually closed its investigation and took no action for lack of evidence." Again, I find "Joanne's" interpretation rather skewed. An associate of Wests, named Hahn, had committed suicide following allegations of him abusing boys. Wiki again: Reporter Bill Morlin worked on the story for more than a year but failed to find a link between West and the crimes committed by his friend Hahn twenty years earlier.Except that West is now deceased, he'd probably have a good case for threatening Joanne with libel. ? Joanne, if you're reading this, perhaps you are the real liar. I am wondering whether I should bother to read any more about any of these on this list. Joanne has really turned me off the cause. Edited to add: Hi Jade, just in case this reads otherwise...I'm not suggesting you are a liar by the way!!! I am just getting cross with a very..er...unhelpful.. blog that you happened to link to.
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Post by Synonym on Mar 19, 2010 19:05:43 GMT
The chap mentioned at the very top: In light of prominent anti-gay activist Roy Ashburn recently being caught walking out of a gay bar, and proving once again that conservative voters have little to no Gaydar, here's a list of 10 conservative anti-gay activists who turnas I said elsewhere, he could have been in there to give the gays a lecture, or lobby the owner to change the place
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Post by trubble on Mar 19, 2010 19:29:28 GMT
Quite so, Octopus. Possible. Although that would be hilariously funny. 2. Jim West (continued) Gay? Looks like it. Liar? Why? How? Doesn't much look like it... Listen, he voted in a bill that I personally find abhorrent, that would prevent gay people from holding normal jobs because they are evil blah blah blah. It's indefensible that anyone, gay or straight, should be voting yes for that, in my humble... But let's not lose sight of the fact that it's a hot potato -- for some bizarre reason -- and that the community in that area supported the bill. Jim said: "If someone hires you to paint their house red, then you paint it red. Even if you think it would look better green." Well...there's some sense in that. Although there's no backbone. Ultimately, Jim West appears to have struggled with his sexuality and so opted to keep it a private matter. He voted along party lines, so to speak, and who says that just because he's gay he has to agree with all other gay people and only represent them? He didn't get voted in as a homosexual. What expectations did he shatter? He was a devoted Republican. And perhaps that vote was a difficult decision for him to make but he assuaged himself by knowing he represented many, perhaps the majority of his voters. The newspaper's determination to bring him down one way or another is clear. They annihilated his career. Maybe that's fair, maybe not, but he died only months after being hounded like this and that seems a poor end to a respected political career. I'm afraid I pity him for being a fairly normal human being with complex issues much more than rage against him for being a hypocrite.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Mar 22, 2010 1:29:21 GMT
>>>I think that someone who practices in private something they condemn in public is a hypocrite, yes
No reasonable person ever doubted that Bill Clinton is a hypocrite (in addition to his many other failings).
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Post by mouse on Mar 22, 2010 10:46:23 GMT
I think that someone who practices in private something they condemn in public is a hypocrite, yes And this is the more appalling if they are legislating concerning that practice very true...and there are a hell of a lot of them....all saying one thing and saying practising and doing another.....
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Mar 22, 2010 14:48:11 GMT
I think that someone who practices in private something they condemn in public is a hypocrite, yes And this is the more appalling if they are legislating concerning that practice very true...and there are a hell of a lot of them....all saying one thing and saying practising and doing another..... Well mouse i still don't get it! Again the emotionally neutral question: What's so bad about a cigarette smoker condemning cigarette smoking? This is not the same thing as someone, who preaches honesty and constantly steals from others.
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Post by jade on Mar 22, 2010 15:50:16 GMT
Anna there is no mention, suggestion, hint or clue that these are miserable repenting sinners.
None of the examples (with a massive cautionary note based on trubbles post above) are about them admitting publicly that they are doing something of which they are ashamed and would want to stop. They are (on the face of it, bearing in mind Trubbles post above) saying in effect:
" I am doing this in secret but I choose to deny you the opportunity to do something that I enjoy"
A Cigarette smoker might very well be miserable in his addiction and could happily campaign against smoking if indeed he does so admitting he is doing something he knows to be wrong
I see nothing to say that is the case with these people
caveats galore, naturally.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Mar 22, 2010 19:50:26 GMT
Anna there is no mention, suggestion, hint or clue that these are miserable repenting sinners. None of the examples (with a massive cautionary note based on trubbles post above) are about them admitting publicly that they are doing something of which they are ashamed and would want to stop. They are (on the face of it, bearing in mind Trubbles post above) saying in effect: " I am doing this in secret but I choose to deny you the opportunity to do something that I enjoy" A Cigarette smoker might very well be miserable in his addiction and could happily campaign against smoking if indeed he does so admitting he is doing something he knows to be wrongI see nothing to say that is the case with these people caveats galore, naturally. Dearest Jade! A lot of homosexuals themselves would tell you that it's better to become heterosexual, if possible. I can't imagine that the politicans in your link find/found any forefillment in their sexual lapses! It just looks like cheap quickie sex! I'll bet they were disgusted with themselves afterwards! Male homosexuality is especially notorious for sex without bonding or commitment. I don't blame those politicans for supporting legislation against homosexuality, even though they lapse into a darker form of it at times! Politicans and people in general are usually not asked about their sexual practices either.
At least i had some emotional bonding in my affairs so it would be easier to call me a "traitor" or a "hypocrite"!
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Post by jade on Mar 24, 2010 8:41:37 GMT
Dearest Anna! A lot of homosexuals themselves would tell you that it's better to become heterosexual, if possible. I am sure you have spoken to people who have said that, and that you have seen it reported. what is your point? I can't imagine that the politicans in your link find/found any forefillment in their sexual lapses! you have a very limited imagination in that case. It just looks like cheap quickie sex! correct. It probably is. I agree. What's your point? I'll bet they were disgusted with themselves afterwards! other than the first time it ever happens, then if this is the case it forms part of the attraction. Male homosexuality is especially notorious for sex without bonding or commitment. from my very limited experience I cannot agree. The gay guys I know want a lifelong commitment with someone who loves them - with children and a happy, stable family life. Maybe you move in different circles. Or maybe what we are lookikng at here is the visible, promiscuous sex that most of us possibly had (or wanted) when in our more (ahem) active years. Whatever. I would not say that because teenagers in Cardiff are rampant, drunken, flirty, sexy and possibly casual about their sexual liaisons that these characteristics define them for the rest of their lives. I don't blame those politicans for supporting legislation against homosexuality, even though they lapse into a darker form of it at times! Politicans and people in general are usually not asked about their sexual practices either. You're kidding, right? You mean there is zero benefit in politicians presenting a view of themsleves to the world as an ideal, nuclear family man? No interst from anyone if they happen to be having illicit affairs? Gay liaisons? Nobody asks? Nobody cares? This is a view of the world, and the press / media etc I find incomprehensible At least i had some emotional bonding in my affairs so it would be easier to call me a "traitor" or a "hypocrite"! How are you a traitor or hypocrite for having genuine emotinoal ties? You are only such if you continue your same sex liaisons secretly whilst publicly denouncing such behaviour or are you sharing?
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Post by Big Lin on Mar 24, 2010 10:01:00 GMT
I can't see what all the fuss is about.
Why can't these people be comfortable about their sexuality?
After all, Alan Duncan, Chris Smith, Ben Bradshaw and Mildred Gordon were all quite open about their sexual orientation.
I'd rather have a politician who was honest about the fact that he or she was attracted to the same sex than one who lied about it because after all if they lie about that what else are they going to be telling us porkies about?
As for the idea that casual sex isn't fun and leaves someone who does it feeling disgusted with themselves, well, as somebody who had a lot of it as a teenager, I'm afraid that's not really true, Anna. It's fun (providing it's consensual, of course) and that's half the trouble.
It's like people telling me I shouldn't smoke or that I eat too much ice cream.
The trouble is that I enjoy it and so do these people enjoy their own little pleasures!
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Post by Lauren on May 4, 2010 18:43:58 GMT
Well mouse i still don't get it! Again the emotionally neutral question: What's so bad about a cigarette smoker condemning cigarette smoking? This is not the same thing as someone, who preaches honesty and constantly steals from others. Yes it is. The fact that you do something that you condemn makes one a hypocrite, no matter what the scenario.
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