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Post by Lauren on May 6, 2010 16:35:43 GMT
Hypocrisy noun: 1 the act of pretending to have feelings, beliefs or principles which one does not actually have. So how can a smoker tell someone else that smoking is bad FOR that particular person, but continue to do it themselves? The fact that they are telling others what to do, is making them a hypocrite when they still do it themselves. It's the YOU can't or shouldn't do it, but I still can that makes them hypocritical. Yes they do, because if they truly believed smoking is bad for everyone, THEY WOULD QUIT, instead of lighting up another smoke, while telling someone else not to. They are presenting a false character, because they are saying it's bad for others, but not bad enough for them to make them quit. That is a hypocrite. I've noticed.
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Post by Lauren on May 6, 2010 17:04:29 GMT
Dearest Novak! Again the cigarette smokers, who stay hooked, but discourage others from getting hooked are my favorite smokers! Much more pleasant than the nicotine addicts, who try to get others hooked! I have honestly never met a smoker who pushed cigarettes on others, after one had said "No". As opposed to what? Asking God for help? One that no one can prove actually exists? How is saying "No" theoretical talk? It's a simple two letter word that works. "No. I don't want to do drugs." or "No. I don't want to smoke." or "No. I don't want to go out." The only time No doesn't work is if you give into that peer pressure crap, and let other people dictate who you are or want to be. So you believe that Will Power had nothing to do with you being able to quit? I have lived my whole life on Will Power. There isn't anything I can't do, as long as I am persistent, stick to it, and Will myself to keep going when at times it would be easier to give up. I don't think Will Power is a form of pride, and it can triumph. People just give up on themselves to easily, and op for the easy way out. As someone once said, "Don't avoid the obstacle, just because it is a challenge." I just don't understand what Will Power has to do with Pride?
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Post by fretslider on May 6, 2010 17:25:47 GMT
Hypocrisy noun: 1 the act of pretending to have feelings, beliefs or principles which one does not actually have. So how can a smoker tell someone else that smoking is bad FOR that particular person, but continue to do it themselves? The fact that they are telling others what to do, is making them a hypocrite when they still do it themselves. It's the YOU can't or shouldn't do it, but I still can that makes them hypocritical. Yes they do, because if they truly believed smoking is bad for everyone, THEY WOULD QUIT, instead of lighting up another smoke, while telling someone else not to. They are presenting a false character, because they are saying it's bad for others, but not bad enough for them to make them quit. That is a hypocrite. I've noticed. "So how can a smoker tell someone else that smoking is bad FOR that particular person, but continue to do it themselves? The fact that they are telling others what to do, is making them a hypocrite when they still do it themselves. " You clearly have no idea of what addiction is. When you've experienced it you'll come to realise that applying black and white dictionary definitions are meaningless. "Yes they do, because if they truly believed smoking is bad for everyone, THEY WOULD QUIT, instead of lighting up another smoke, while telling someone else not to. " You clearly have no idea of what addiction is. When you've experienced it you'll come to realise that applying black and white dictionary definitions are meaningless.
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Post by Lauren on May 6, 2010 18:11:04 GMT
You clearly have no idea of what addiction is. When you've experienced it you'll come to realise that applying black and white dictionary definitions are meaningless. Okay, so let me get this straight. Once a person becomes an addict, they are no longer a hypocrite? Okay. Now I got it. Thanks for the clarification. So I guess standard dictionary definitions of murder, rape, pedophilia are meaningless to murderers, rapists and pedophiles because none of those actions are just black and white either. A murderer can't be a murderer just because they've murdered someone. Got it.
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Post by fretslider on May 6, 2010 18:39:50 GMT
You clearly have no idea of what addiction is. When you've experienced it you'll come to realise that applying black and white dictionary definitions are meaningless. Okay, so let me get this straight. Once a person becomes an addict, they are no longer a hypocrite? Okay. Now I got it. Thanks for the clarification. So I guess standard dictionary definitions of murder, rape, pedophilia are meaningless to murderers, rapists and pedophiles because none of those actions are just black and white either. A murderer can't be a murderer just because they've murdered someone. Got it. Murderers do not spare or try to spare lives Rapists by their actions mess up lives Paedophiles by their actions mess up lives See the pattern?
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Post by Lauren on May 6, 2010 19:08:01 GMT
Murderers do not spare or try to spare lives Rapists by their actions mess up lives Paedophiles by their actions mess up lives See the pattern? Obviously. My point was to show that the definition of murder is clearly applied to a murderer, just like the definition of rape and pedophilia is clearly applied to rapists and pedophiles, just like the definition of a hypocrite is clearly applied to those who are hypocrites.
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Post by fretslider on May 6, 2010 19:19:52 GMT
Murderers do not spare or try to spare lives Rapists by their actions mess up lives Paedophiles by their actions mess up lives See the pattern? Obviously. My point was to show that the definition of murder is clearly applied to a murderer, just like the definition of rape and pedophilia is clearly applied to rapists and pedophiles, just like the definition of a hypocrite is clearly applied to those who are hypocrites. Obviously, your point is entirely erroneous when it comes to the example of the smoker. Hypocrisy noun: 1 the act of pretending to have feelings, beliefs or principles which one does not actually have. 2 the act of concealing one's true character. A smoker who advises someone against starting the habit neither pretends to have feelings, beliefs or principles which they do not actually have, nor do they conceal their character. Quod Erat Demonstrandum
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Post by Lauren on May 6, 2010 19:31:26 GMT
Obviously, your point is entirely erroneous when it comes to the example of the smoker. Right, because as you said no addict can be a hypocrite. Got it. Can you please then tell me how a person who is so concerned with other peoples health, and not their own doesn't make them a hypocrite?
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Post by fretslider on May 6, 2010 19:49:56 GMT
Obviously, your point is entirely erroneous when it comes to the example of the smoker. Right, because as you said no addict can be a hypocrite. Got it. Can you please then tell me how a person who is so concerned with other peoples health, and not their own doesn't make them a hypocrite? "Right, because as you said no addict can be a hypocrite. Got it." No, you haven't got it at all, and that is NOT what I said. Go back and read it again
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Post by randomvioce on May 6, 2010 20:15:26 GMT
Good grief! Why is this so difficult?
Someone who smokes, but pretends not to is a hypocrite. Someone who admits to smoking but ADVISES others not to start is not a hypocrite, but merely offering advice. Someone who smokes and asks someone to stop, whilst they cannot is not a hypocrite either, but offering advice on the health benefits of stopping. The fact they cannot or will not take their own advice does not invalidate that advice, as the advice is still strong anyway.
Gay minister who hides his sexualatity whislt denouncing that same sexualality? HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hope that helps.
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Post by Big Lin on May 6, 2010 20:37:17 GMT
I'm not happy with the tone of some of the recent posts. Novak has put her opinions forward with your usual intelligence, open-mindedness and willingness to learn and she does NOT deserve the buckets of abuse that one or two members have thrown over her.
I'd appreciate it if people could remember to attack the POST and NOT the poster.
Thank you.
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Post by Lauren on May 6, 2010 21:55:22 GMT
Good grief! Why is this so difficult? I'm stubborn. Right. Yes, but they still aren't taking their own advice, which is hypocritical, or they are a phony. See the question I keep asking, but people aren't explaining is why it isn't hypocritical for one person to tell someone to watch their own health, but then they don't watch their own? I know, but that advice is plastered everywhere anyway. It's not like it's new information to a person wanting to smoke. So to clarify: If a person, for example, tells their friend not to get married because 50% of all marriages end in divorce, but then they go get married/stay married themselves they are not a hypocrite.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on May 7, 2010 2:01:26 GMT
Life is filled with such contradictions and good intentions Novak
I'm a bit overweight but I'll be happy to advise others to watch what they eat. I'm intending to lose weight myself too. But I've been putting it off one year at a time for quite a while.
I did quit smoking many years ago. It is a horrible chemical addition. When I smoked I did advise others to quit and I knew I should too. Overcoming a nicotine addiction is a challenge.
"I dearly love my wife and family but you are so incredibly beautiful and we're here alone tonight. I would not advise anyone who is happily married like me to have an affair. Now can I help you with your bra strap Monica?" (Bill Clinton)
Should you have that dessert? No of course you should not. Should you advise others that they also don't need that dessert. Sure -- it's true so why not tell them.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on May 7, 2010 2:53:07 GMT
I don't blame those politicans for supporting legislation against homosexuality, even though they lapse into a darker form of it at times! So you actually think the government should be regulating the private sex lives of consenting adults? Politicans and people in general are usually not asked about their sexual practices either. And they shouldn’t be! If i'm correctly informed the legislation that these politicans supported made no attempt to limit what consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes.
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♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on May 7, 2010 3:25:29 GMT
Dearest Novak, In your example of being a hard core drug user there is a difference. If you deny having ever been involved with hard drugs and preach against drug abuse, while continually taking hard drugs, i can understand the hypocrisy accusation. But can't you also understand why others would view people who tell you not to smoke, while smoking a cigarette themselves as hypocrites too? I mean, what if the other person really wanted to smoke? No one has the right to tell others what to do with their own bodies, and it is especially hypocritical when the person telling you you shouldn't smoke is smoking right in front of you. It only becomes hypocritical if you still engage in the act. It wouldn't be hypocritical if you no longer participate in the act you are warning others not to do. I mean, would it be hypocritical of me to tell my sister she can't get married because 50% of marriages lead to divorce, and then I go get married myself? It's only impossible if YOU think it is impossible. I mean, what's wrong with saying No? Dearest Novak, I don't think anyone on this board claims to be perfect!
Unlike you i'm very reserved about using the term "hypocrite" and define this term much more rigidly. If i talk to others negatively about my flaws, bad habits, mistakes, whatever, even if i may or will relapse i don't feel i'm being hypocritical.
My friends often talk about their flaws and i don't feel they're hypocritical, if they can't become perfect or warn me about a bad habit they're caught up in.
You're example of telling someone not to get married because of a divorce seems like just an opinion and not hypocrisy..
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Post by Lauren on May 7, 2010 3:59:59 GMT
Dearest Novak, I don't think anyone on this board claims to be perfect! Neither do I, and I am not afraid to admit that I have been hypocritical too. I have told others not to do something, but then I do the the thing I told them not to do, which has made me a hypocrite. Maybe it's a mistake in my education. I have always been taught that hypocrisy is when you tell others to do something, and then you still do what you tell others not to. So I have a loose definition of the term hypocrisy. So what's the correct definition for a person who advises one not to do something, but does the same thing? A walking contradiction? [/color][/size][/quote] But I can still get married. They can't. Doesn't that make me a hypocrite?
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Post by mouse on May 7, 2010 11:55:55 GMT
this has already been answered.....its only hyporcritical if you condem in others what you your self indulge in a smoker advising others to stop isnt hypocracy but sound advise based on knowledge a man publickly condeming homosexuality while indulging in homosexuality in secret is a hyporcrite
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 13:14:32 GMT
Yes, but they still aren't taking their own advice, which is hypocritical, or they are a phony. No, that is not correct. If someone says 'Don't start smoking because you will become addicted and unable to stop smoking, like me' They are offering advice, based on their own life. They are not pretending not to smoke. If they say 'Stop smoking, it causes cancers and lot of othe nasty conditions' That is stating a bald fact and offering advice. If that person has tried to stop and failed, that does not make the statement or the advice invalid, does it? You would have a point if they said. 'I don't smoke' when they do, then that would be a lie.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on May 7, 2010 15:42:00 GMT
Dearest Novak, I don't think anyone on this board claims to be perfect! Neither do I, and I am not afraid to admit that I have been hypocritical too. I have told others not to do something, but then I do the the thing I told them not to do, which has made me a hypocrite. Maybe it's a mistake in my education. I have always been taught that hypocrisy is when you tell others to do something, and then you still do what you tell others not to. So I have a loose definition of the term hypocrisy. So what's the correct definition for a person who advises one not to do something, but does the same thing? A walking contradiction? [/color][/size][/quote] But I can still get married. They can't. Doesn't that make me a hypocrite? [/quote] I would say the worst that we are when we advise someone to avoid a human failing that we may possess is "inconsistent". But we're not robots and i accept human inconsistency and it's not even worth criticizing. The good intentions of a smoker advising someone not to start smoking constitute a positive act.
Hypocrisy is something i associate with evil hidden plots, two facedness, etc.. Like the Pharisees trying to vilify Christ and fool the masses into believe they were righteous. I wouldn't cheapen the term hypocrisy by applying it to innocent human inconstencies, where good intentions are involved.
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Post by beth on May 12, 2010 2:41:09 GMT
Hypocrisy is something i associate with evil hidden plots, two facedness, etc.. Like the Pharisees trying to vilify Christ and fool the masses into believe they were righteous. I wouldn't cheapen the term hypocrisy by applying it to innocent human inconstencies, where good intentions are involved. Few people here would agree with that, Anna. Dictionary definition: Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie. Hypocrisy may come from a desire to hide from others actual motives or feelings.
Hypocrisy is closely related to self-Righteousness. > Maybe there's a language barrier that causes misunderstanding.
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