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Post by randomvioce on Aug 14, 2010 18:20:31 GMT
Let's leave the political party dogma aside when it comes to health - it's too important for people to have knee-jerk views, whether of right or left. I agree it is too important to let political dogma come into it. Someone who says that the NHS is a 'sixty year mistake' cannot be trusted with our NHS.
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Post by mouse on Aug 14, 2010 18:33:08 GMT
Mouse - why do you assume that the foreign people you see getting treatment are somehow fiddling, or at least that they might not be entitled to treatment? That is over suspicious - someone might be getting something they might not be entitled to!! Not, someone's having their life saved by our wonderful health service, regardless of their background, origin, or ability to pay. Besides, we do have reciprocal health arrangements with many countries. no its not overly supicious... its based on a great deal of personal knowledge tell me who pays for the NHS....have they no rights to demand they are not ripped off...because every time a person who has not payed in gets treated it means less in the pot for those who have paid in...its as simple as that there is no endless supply of monies and resources...and those who pay in have first call on those resources... i have no problem with treating the sick regardless of origin...but i do expect reciprical treatment for our people[which of course we do not get]and i expect foriegners to have medical innsurance in the same way as we have medical insurance when we go abroad[and any one of ours who dont have insurance soon know about it][but more fool them]
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Post by mouse on Aug 14, 2010 18:37:15 GMT
oh great you found one...but be assured torries use the NHS just as much as anyone else and most certainly would not like or sit back quietyly while it was dismantled this tory labour fairy tail is well passed its sell by date,,its pathetic.. you sound like presscott on speed..he lives in la la land too with his house,,his boat and his jags and his title ;D ;D
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Post by aubrey on Aug 14, 2010 18:37:23 GMT
We should be treating people first and checking their credentials later.
I assume that everyone I see getting treatment is entitled, one way or another. Saves a lot of worry.
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Post by mouse on Aug 14, 2010 19:01:51 GMT
We should be treating people first and checking their credentials later. I assume that everyone I see getting treatment is entitled, one way or another. Saves a lot of worry. some cancer patients are not getting the treatment they need,,,postcode still happens....overseas aid patients cost the national health some 30,000 a yr EACH last figures i saw...so every 30,000 spent is 30,000 less for some one elses treatment of whatever...its a question of priorities,,,and our own should come way top of the list the nhs budget is not everlasting and infinite
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Post by mouse on Aug 14, 2010 19:03:00 GMT
We should be treating people first and checking their credentials later. I assume that everyone I see getting treatment is entitled, one way or another. Saves a lot of worry. for whom??? certainly not the auditors who have to balance the books...
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Post by aubrey on Aug 14, 2010 19:21:38 GMT
Well you, for one. If you're getting upset that every tinted looking person you see in a hospital should not be there, it can't be good for your health.
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Post by jean on Aug 14, 2010 19:32:29 GMT
....overseas aid patients... Who are these people? I have never heard of them before.
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Post by riotgrrl on Aug 14, 2010 19:36:28 GMT
Mouse - why do you assume that the foreign people you see getting treatment are somehow fiddling, or at least that they might not be entitled to treatment? That is over suspicious - someone might be getting something they might not be entitled to!! Not, someone's having their life saved by our wonderful health service, regardless of their background, origin, or ability to pay. Besides, we do have reciprocal health arrangements with many countries. no its not overly supicious... its based on a great deal of personal knowledge tell me who pays for the NHS....have they no rights to demand they are not ripped off...because every time a person who has not payed in gets treated it means less in the pot for those who have paid in...its as simple as that there is no endless supply of monies and resources...and those who pay in have first call on those resources... i have no problem with treating the sick regardless of origin...but i do expect reciprical treatment for our people[which of course we do not get]and i expect foriegners to have medical innsurance in the same way as we have medical insurance when we go abroad[and any one of ours who dont have insurance soon know about it][but more fool them] Mouse, how much do you pay in to the NHS every year? I'm a tax-payer on a good income, so I pay in shedloads. Do you?
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Post by riotgrrl on Aug 14, 2010 19:52:55 GMT
What cuts are you talking about mouse? It was the Tories that are attempting to dismantle the NHS. oh get a grip... the nhs is in dire straights along with the rest of the country and if the cons can get even a little of it sorted out...good for them...gowd knows it needs sorting in casualty the other day with a friend of mine... one woman brought a child with a splinter[err a splinter?? two men were ejected for being violent and fighting some one else needed a bandage changing[in A7E ??] I went to A&E with a splinter ( a skelf as we call it up here.) Don't quite see your point there. Better I went to A&E and got it out at night than I left it festering in my thigh until I could get a GP appointment. some one else had an apoint ment at the fracture clinic but had over slept and had had the temerity to ring for an ambulance and was kicking off because the ambulance was refused come on...you think the nhs doesnt need reform..go on the front line or work on the wards and see what actually y happens...then come back and say it doesnt need reform..from over staffing in management and bad management to under staffing..waste..and misuse wards were closing and cuts were in place before the election and you know it
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Post by iamjumbo on Aug 14, 2010 21:05:23 GMT
Stop it with the nonsense Riotgrrl. I'm all for individual freedom. But Islam is not about the individual. It is a regimen of conformity to a sick ideology. You defend Islam but you'd be the firs victim were they to take over. Can't imagine you accepting Sharia law or being one of four wives with no rights. Remember the photo I posted a week ago showing the eleven year old girl betrothed to the forty one year old Muslim with beard and turban. The 11 year old would only be one wife. He can have three more. Would you like to be one of them? No, don't be silly. But then, I wouldn't live in Aghanistan. And nor would most Americans I suspect. Because they choose to live in a state where they can be free. I don't care for the tenets of any religion, but I believe that people have a right to worship who they like, how they like, within the law. You don't. The difference between us is that I believe in freedom, and you don't. you obviously don't believe in freedom or you wouldn't support those whose sole goal is the total destruction of freedom
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Post by iamjumbo on Aug 14, 2010 21:07:28 GMT
But you presumably supported the income distribution that took place under Bush (not just traxes: wages as well). But the lower paid deserve their lot, don't they? unfortunately, das believes in doing everything possible to widen the disparity between rich and poor.
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Post by iamjumbo on Aug 14, 2010 21:10:22 GMT
Aubrey - It sounds like you found yourself in a health care system that does cater to your personal condition. I'm glad you are able to get the treatments that you need. Congratulations on living in the right country for your health problems. But your situation is far from universal. As we can see from the article I referenced in an above posting, the UK health services are cutting budgets and denying critically needed treatments to many patients. This is what always happens with government provided healthcare. When push comes to shove, their budgets are more important than your health. wrong again lad. it is the insurance companies who are so deluded that they think they have a right to make a profit at the expense of children's lives
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Post by iamjumbo on Aug 14, 2010 21:15:57 GMT
BA - you have not said anything about the redistribition of wealth under Reagan and the Bushes from the lower income groups tpo the higher income group. The thing about a capitalist system is that it needs a huge base of the lower paid. This is ok if the wealthy do not keep pilfering off them, as they did under Reagan and Bush. The fact that a very few can maybe make it into the ranks of the wealthy does not make it ok for the rest, who have no chance. And equality of opportunity all very well, but not if some have a massive head start - for eg - would the younger Bush have got anywhere at all without the wealth and influence of the Bush family behind him? The Conservatives in the UK have always done their best to destroy the NHS, and they're doing it now. This is not a fault of the NHS, but a fault of the Conservatives. poor das keeps his eyes closed so he doesn't have to face the reality that the republicans are adamantly opposed to equality of opportunity. every republican since eisenhower has strived to hinder opportunity for anyone who was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth. ronnie made it his mission to do as much harm to working people as possible, and dumbya followed suit, more successfully of course, since he put ten percent of the population out of work
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Post by iamjumbo on Aug 14, 2010 21:20:36 GMT
What gets to me is that when I go to a hospital MOST of the outpatients obviously DON'T speak English as their first language and nor do most of the staff! THAT is the cause of the financial difficulties
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Post by iamjumbo on Aug 14, 2010 21:23:12 GMT
I go to a big teaching hospital in London three times a week. There are lots of nurses and patients who seem to come from a different country. Everyone I see can speak English (except one patient; and she can speak some - 1st language, 2nd language - who cares? (one nurse I had knew 4 languages, inc English. I know only one, and that's a Yorks version of it). Mouse - why do you assume that the foreign people you see getting treatment are somehow fiddling, or at least that they might not be entitled to treatment? That is over suspicious - someone might be getting something they might not be entitled to!! Not, someone's having their life saved by our wonderful health service, regardless of their background, origin, or ability to pay. Besides, we do have reciprocal health arrangements with many countries. she's not talking about tourists or visitors. she's talking about the immigrants coming in and mooching
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Post by jean on Aug 14, 2010 22:04:41 GMT
If they're immigrants rather than tourists or visitors, they're paying tax and national insurance like everyone else.
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Post by riotgrrl on Aug 14, 2010 22:11:46 GMT
No, don't be silly. But then, I wouldn't live in Aghanistan. And nor would most Americans I suspect. Because they choose to live in a state where they can be free. I don't care for the tenets of any religion, but I believe that people have a right to worship who they like, how they like, within the law. You don't. The difference between us is that I believe in freedom, and you don't. you obviously don't believe in freedom or you wouldn't support those whose sole goal is the total destruction of freedom See, the thing is that I don't think 'not encouraging' is the same as 'supporting'. I don't encourage Islam (or any other religion), but I don't want to start deporting people or sending them on trains to death camps either. Only by a severe twisting of the brain can you translate that as 'supporting'. However, if you mean that 'not hating in madly wound up and pychotic way' is the same as 'supporting' . . .
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Post by june on Aug 14, 2010 22:41:14 GMT
you obviously don't believe in freedom or you wouldn't support those whose sole goal is the total destruction of freedom See, the thing is that I don't think 'not encouraging' is the same as 'supporting'. I don't encourage Islam (or any other religion), but I don't want to start deporting people or sending them on trains to death camps either. Only by a severe twisting of the brain can you translate that as 'supporting'. However, if you mean that 'not hating in madly wound up and pychotic way' is the same as 'supporting' . . . Thinking does seem to be the defining factor here...........
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Post by mouse on Aug 15, 2010 6:07:02 GMT
have paid all my adult life...and yes,,still do[as have and do my family] i am firmly committed to the NHS always have been and hate to see the mismanagement and abuse of the system..which impacts on us all
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