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Post by jean on Aug 19, 2010 16:12:12 GMT
now why wouldnt foriegners have a passport The foreigners will have theirs - but I think aubrey's talking about the poor natives, who are going to have to prove entitlement as well (since you can't always tell who's a foreigner just by looking.)
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Post by aubrey on Aug 19, 2010 19:37:28 GMT
Yes - that was a hypothetical conversation by an English person trying to get treatment if foreigners are stopped. There would have to be a test, to see who is entitled. So - Passport (I have one, but a lot of British people don't).
Birth Certificate: I do have one, but I don't know where it is. A lot of people will have lost theirs.
Nat Ins number: I do know mine, but only because I use it a lot. I remember, a few years ago, Iit took a bit of finding.
My girlfriend was born in Malasia (or Malaya), and recently, trying to register with a Jobs agency, she discovered that she could not prove that she is British (she is; her parents - both English - moved back to England before she was 1 year old). She doesn't have a passport - well, she does, but it ran out years ago.
And there would also be mistakes: even a very small percentage of mistakes would add up to a large number of British people not getting treatment, or not getting treatment in time.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Aug 20, 2010 23:33:44 GMT
Aubrey - Perhaps you'll be able to visit your girlfriend in Malaysia after she's deported. That would seem to be the best solution here.
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Post by mouse on Aug 21, 2010 7:55:20 GMT
Aubrey - Perhaps you'll be able to visit your girlfriend in Malaysia after she's deported. That would seem to be the best solution here. as her parents were english and she has been here since she was one...why would she be deported ?? and i fail to see why she couldnt register...she obviously if she has lived here since a yr old..went to school,,had medical treatment etc....and if your 51 she must have a national insurence number ...it all sounds a little odd
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Post by aubrey on Aug 21, 2010 8:24:52 GMT
She has a national insurance number. She didn't know that she might need more until a couple of weeks ago. She has lived in England since she was under 1: IE, 45 odd years.
BA. I wouldn't go to Malaysia. I've read enough Anthony Burgess to know that it's a hellhole.
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Post by mouse on Aug 21, 2010 8:38:25 GMT
She has a national insurance number. She didn't know that she might need more until a couple of weeks ago. She has lived in England since she was under 1: IE, 45 odd years. BA. I wouldn't go to Malaysia. I've read enough Anthony Burgess to know that it's a hellhole. ah..i see....but she will if her parents are alive have proof..and if they are dead have their birth and death certificates bit like the jobsworths who tried to stop my husbands cousins from entering the country from oz...[born here grew up here] there always an eejit some where lots going on in malaysia..not good
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Post by randomvioce on Aug 21, 2010 9:43:12 GMT
This talk of N.I numbers, passports, ID cards etc, is just sheer nonsense. There is NO WAY we are going to deny anyone treatment. What do you really think? What is in your tiny mind? That someone with a seriously broken leg or a burst appendix is going to be put on a plane to the Country of origin in agony? No, that is never going to happen. We are going to treat people in pain whenever someone turns up to A&E or requires pain relief, antibiotics, bandages or dressings etc.
Every doctor is sworn to treat patients and no doctor will deny someone treatment because they have the wrong paperwork. So, sorry to burst your little fantasy bubble but we are not going to allow a few children to suffer in abject agony, just to satisfy the perverted cravings of a few bitter and twisted Tories.
So you can go to sleep safe in the knowledge that there are millions of illegal immigrants getting life saving and very expensive treatment every day, and there are Muslims getting IVF treatment so they can have a child and strengthen their claim for asylum in this Country. Not only that, but there are other illegal immigrants getting boob jobs so they can marry white men for passports too.
I hope that cheers you up, mouse. Remember this goes on in every hospital in the Country. If you feel that strongly about it, you could campaign to have the whole NHS down. It is what you Tories have been wanting anyway.
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Post by fretslider on Aug 21, 2010 10:11:31 GMT
Wow
Ho: If you disagree with RV you are a Tory.
Therefore if you agree with him you must be a communist
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Post by mouse on Aug 21, 2010 10:20:09 GMT
Wow Ho: If you disagree with RV you are a Tory. Therefore if you agree with him you must be a communist the mans a lunatic....what he doesnt know he makes up... ...he knows nothing except a few insults and they get very boring after the first few times mind you its quite some thing to be able to clean ones teeth without opening ones mouth....luckily few are so far up them selves or tooth brush makers would go for broke
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Post by fretslider on Aug 21, 2010 10:29:51 GMT
Wow Ho: If you disagree with RV you are a Tory. Therefore if you agree with him you must be a communist the mans a lunatic....what he doesnt know he makes up... ...he knows nothing except a few insults and they get very boring after the first few times mind you its quite some thing to be able to clean ones teeth without opening ones mouth....luckily few are so far up them selves or tooth brush makers would go for broke I think you've got his number!
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Post by aubrey on Aug 21, 2010 11:02:17 GMT
Yes, annoying - but maybe those "Jobsworths" really would have lost their jobs if they allowed someone into the country without the correct documents.
Like the Jobs agency would have got into some kind of trouble - heavy fines, I think - if it allowed someone onto their books without proof that she really is English.
Individuals should not be blamed for observing the law. If the law is wrong, blame the law.
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Post by mouse on Aug 21, 2010 15:15:34 GMT
i dont think English really comes into it....but jobsworths are a pain in the proverbial..too many instances to quote
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Post by aubrey on Aug 21, 2010 17:19:23 GMT
Well, they had to have proof that she was really English before they took her on. This was not someone being awkward; it was the law.
And if there is a law saying that everyone treated by the NHS has to prove that they're entitled, you will get lots of people who can't prove it: at least not immediately. So, if the treatment is required urgently, what happens then? Do you just wait, and maybe let them die?
How do you know that the people in your instances wouldn't have been sacked - or at least reprimanded - if they'd done as you wanted?
I often (working in a place selling small quantities of bubblewrap) used to refuse to let people off without a receipt (or paying VAT), and I must have seemed like a jobsworth to them: but how was I to know they weren't VAT inspectors? I thought it was a bloody cheek asking in the first place.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Aug 23, 2010 0:20:04 GMT
So RV, we have a group of radical Islamic terrorists bombing a train in London. They manage to murder 500 people who are passengers or on boarding ramps. Some of the terrorists are injured. The question is, are those injured terrorists entitled to taxpayer supported medical care or would you prefer to put them on a plane to hell?
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Post by mouse on Aug 23, 2010 6:46:06 GMT
So RV, we have a group of radical Islamic terrorists bombing a train in London. They manage to murder 500 people who are passengers or on boarding ramps. Some of the terrorists are injured. The question is, are those injured terrorists entitled to taxpayer supported medical care or would you prefer to put them on a plane to hell? this question was asked many times after the scots airport attempt when the burned terrorist was given treatment by the NHS...many were of the mind he should have been left to rot
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Post by aubrey on Aug 23, 2010 16:07:42 GMT
Entitled to treatment.
We should not go down to their level.
If we can't be civilised, how the hell can we expect anyone else to be?
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Post by firedancer on Aug 23, 2010 20:56:29 GMT
I'm with Aubrey on this one.
I don't believe in letting others' primitive behaviour dictate our standards.
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