♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Feb 1, 2009 21:34:28 GMT
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/30/AR2009013003431.html QUOTE: Bishop Apologizes to Pope but Does Not Retract Holocaust Denial By Francis X. Rocca Religion News Service Saturday, January 31, 2009; Page A10 VATICAN CITY, Jan. 30 -- A Holocaust-denying bishop who was readmitted to the Catholic Church apologized Friday to Pope Benedict XVI for the "unnecessary distress and problems" caused by his "imprudent remarks." Bishop Richard Williamson, one of four leaders of the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X whose 1988 excommunications were lifted by the pope Jan. 21, posted the statement on his personal blog. Jewish groups have voiced outrage that Williamson recently told Swedish television that "historical evidence is hugely against 6 million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler." On Thursday, Israel's chief rabbinate, the country's highest Jewish body, severed ties with the Vatican. In an apparent response to the controversy, Benedict on Wednesday condemned the Nazi genocide of "millions of Jews" and expressed his "full and indisputable solidarity" with the Jewish people. The pope has not, however, explicitly condemned Williamson's remarks. Williamson's apology came in the form of a letter, dated Jan. 28, to Cardinal Dario Castrillón Hoyos, head of the Vatican office that deals with the Society of St. Pius X and other traditionalist groups disaffected by church reforms stemming from the Second Vatican Council (1962-65). "Amidst this tremendous media storm stirred up by imprudent remarks of mine on Swedish television, I beg of you to accept . . . my sincere regrets for having caused to yourself and to the Holy Father so much unnecessary distress and problems," Williamson wrote. The bishop also expressed gratitude for Benedict's cancellation of his excommunication and promised to "offer a Mass" for the pope and Castrillón. In an introductory comment for readers of his blog, Williamson suggested that critics had exploited his remarks merely to attack Benedict. "Last week's media uproar" was "surely aimed rather at the Holy Father than at a relatively insignificant bishop," he wrote. Williamson also hinted that his apology was not a retraction of his inflammatory historical statements but a gesture of deference to the pope. Introducing the letter to Castrillón, Williamson noted that the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, founder of the Society of St. Pius X, "gave his Society the example of never so cleaving to God's Truth as to abandon respect for the men holding God's Authority." Also Friday, an Israeli government official said that the Jewish state maintains good relations with the Vatican despite the controversy over Williamson, the Associated Press reported. Israel's ambassador to the Holy See, Mordechay Lewy, said that "the climate is good" and that there is "a lot of potential for cooperation" between the Vatican and Israel.
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Feb 2, 2009 12:56:53 GMT
Holocaust denying scum. AH
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 2, 2009 14:00:52 GMT
if the church was real, trash like this wouldn't be a bishop to begin with
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Post by Big Lin on Feb 2, 2009 15:46:38 GMT
Well, I was raised a Presbyterian and though I'm now an Anglican I certainly find it totally unbelievable that even a Pope who used to be in the Hitler Youth could be quite so stupid.
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 2, 2009 19:03:15 GMT
he yearns to be torquemada
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Feb 2, 2009 21:32:27 GMT
Well, I was raised a Presbyterian and though I'm now an Anglican I certainly find it totally unbelievable that even a Pope who used to be in the Hitler Youth could be quite so stupid. Being in the Hitler Youth wasn't really a choice in those days Lin. He's still a prat, but you can't hold stuff like that against Germans of that generation (who were children at the time). AH
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Post by Big Lin on Feb 3, 2009 16:30:55 GMT
Maybe not, but at least he had enough experience of the Nazis to know that promoting a holocaust denier was sick and disgusting (to say nothing of making him look stupid.)
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 3, 2009 16:58:31 GMT
Maybe not, but at least he had enough experience of the Nazis to know that promoting a holocaust denier was sick and disgusting (to say nothing of making him look stupid.) not to mention hypocritical as hell
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♫anna♫
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The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Feb 7, 2009 22:37:52 GMT
tinyurl.com/de7utn QUOTE: Pope right to ask bishop to recant The Edmonton JournalLecturing spiritual groups on their internal decisions is generally no one's business other than members of the faith community at hand. Certainly, religious freedom in its fullness is a cornerstone of any democracy worthy of the name, Canada obviously included. That said, there are moments when essentially private matters of church, temple or mosque spill over into the secular world, affecting the wider community conversation. That has been the case of late in the issue of the troubled Vatican rehabilitation of Bishop Richard Williamson. Late last month, Pope Benedict XVI revoked the excommunications of four bishops from the arch-conservative Society of St. Pius X, including Williamson. That act, clearly designed to help heal rifts within the Catholic family and bring traditionalist schismatics back into the Church of Rome, has backfired horribly. Williamson, born in Britain, has had a long history of trumpeting Holocaust denial. In his travels to Canada, he has been reported as telling a 1989 Sherbrooke Que., congregation that, "Jews made up the Holocaust, Protestants get their orders from the devil and the Vatican has sold its soul to liberalism." At the same time, he praised the odious Ernst Zundel, who had been convicted the previous year for spreading false news on the Holocaust. Of course there are many skeletons in many closets on this subject, sad to say. The church recognizes that, for any sin, also comes the possibility for redemption. It's understandable that a conservative pontiff such as Benedict would want to extend a hand to doctrinal hardliners who have left the fold. The problem is that so far Williamson has made no effort to recant his appalling comments. In fact, on Jan. 21 of this year, Swedes watched him on television proclaim that, "I believe there were no gas chambers" used by the Nazis, and that 300,000 Jews died in concentration camps, not the six million universally recognized. For its part, the Society of St. Pius X apologized a few days later on Swedish TV for Williamson's remarks and said his position in no way reflected the society's beliefs. Wednesday, against a backdrop of global outrage from within and outside the church, the Vatican announced that the Holy Father was unaware of Williamson's recent Holocaust comments. If he wants to become a bishop in the Roman Catholic Church, he must publicly renounce "his position on the Shoah." At this writing, there has been no word from Williamson, who lives in a seminary near Buenos Aires. This has been a tragic episode for an institution that is a force for good in the world. That it has come on the watch of a German Pope who spent time -- as thousands of blameless children did -- in the Hitler Youth and has been apologizing ever since makes it even more poignant. The literal and figurative prayer is that it will be over very soon.
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 8, 2009 12:51:01 GMT
300,000 Jews died in concentration camps, not the six million universally recognized.
that makes him even more stupid than he's already proclaimed that he is. what the hell difference does it really make even if there were only 300,000?
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Feb 9, 2009 14:51:40 GMT
300,000 Jews died in concentration camps, not the six million universally recognized. that makes him even more stupid than he's already proclaimed that he is. what the hell difference does it really make even if there were only 300,000? In Germany it's a crime to deny the 6,000,000 number of Jewish dead and say it was less as this Bishop does! Reducing the number of other concentration camps victims-e.g. Gypsies, Russian POWs, homosexuals, political prisoners, Jehoviah witnesses, etc. has in contrast never led to a trial in Germany! edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/02/08/germany.bishop/index.html QUOTE: (CNN) -- A Holocaust denier Pope Benedict XVI welcomed back into the Roman Catholic Church last month has been removed from his position as head of a seminary in Argentina. The views of Bishop Richard Williamson, who has led the seminary in La Reja since 2003, do not reflect those of The Society of St. Pius X, said Christian Bouchacourt, head of its Latin American chapter. "It's obvious that a Catholic bishop cannot talk with the ecclesiastical authority, but to things related to faith and morality," Bouchacourt said in a written statement. Williamson, shortly before the pope lifted his excommunication, denied the Nazis had systematically murdered 6 million Jews during World War II. In his blog Saturday, Williamson, referring to himself, posted a note, saying, "His Excellency is neither dead, dying, nor retired." Earlier Sunday, German Chancellor Angela Merkel phoned Pope Benedict about the issue, though neither side seemed to have shifted its position over Williamson. "It was a very constructive conversation," the German government and the Vatican said in a joint statement about the call. Merkel and the pope expressed respect for each other's opinion, the release said -- diplomatic-speak for saying neither side budged. Merkel demanded Tuesday that the pope firmly reject Holocaust denial. "The pope and the Vatican must make absolutely clear that there can be no denial of the Holocaust," Merkel said. The Vatican has pointed to several statements by Pope Benedict in the past few years condemning the destruction of European Jewry, including his visits to concentration camps. He has also said he did not know of Williamson's views on the Holocaust when he lifted the excommunication. "I believe that the historical evidence is strongly against -- is hugely against -- 6 million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler," Williamson said recently in an interview with a Swedish television station, which also appeared on various Web sites after its broadcast. "I believe there were no gas chambers." Germany's Catholic bishops Saturday called for the expulsion of Williamson, a member of an ultra-conservative group expelled from the Church by Pope John Paul II in 1988. "Mr. Williamson is impossible and irresponsible," Archbishop Robert Zollitsch, chairman of the German Bishops' Conference, said Saturday, according to Spiegel Online. "I now see no room for him in the Catholic church." In the Saturday article, Spiegel quotes Williamson saying he will not recant and that he would need more evidence to believe the Holocaust really happened. "If I find this proof, then I will correct myself," he said. "But that will require some time." On Wednesday, the Vatican had ordered Williamson to "distance himself" from his views "in an absolutely unequivocal and public manner." The Vatican's secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, said Williamson will not be allowed to perform priestly functions if he does not recant. He said the pope was unaware of the comments when he rehabilitated Williamson and three other members of the Society of Saint Pius X. Williamson apologized last week for the "distress" he has caused the pope, but did not retract his comments. Williamson, who now lives in Argentina, and three other bishops who belong to the Society of Saint Pius X were excommunicated 20 years ago. The society was founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who rebelled against the Vatican's modernizing reforms in the 1960s, and who consecrated the men in unsanctioned ceremonies. Williamson's reinstatement and comments have been fiercely criticized by Israel, American Jewish groups and political leaders. The pope -- who was born in Germany and was a child during the Nazi era -- rejected Holocaust denial in public statements on January 28. At the end of his weekly audience, the pope discussed his trips to the former concentration camp at Auschwitz and the images of "the heinous slaughter of millions of Jews, the innocent victims of a blind racial and religious hatred." After his 14th birthday in 1941, Benedict -- then called Joseph Ratzinger -- was forced along with the rest of his class in Bavaria, southern Germany, to join the Hitler Youth. However his biographer John Allen Jr., said Ratzinger's family was strongly anti-Nazi. His spokesman, Father Federico Lombardi, called Williamson's remarks to Swedish television "absolutely indefensible." Journalist Brian Byrnes in Buenos Aires,
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Post by Big Lin on Feb 9, 2009 18:56:21 GMT
I know there are people who claim that only the Jews suffered for their ethnicity but as someone whose uncle was a porraimos survivor who lost his parents, brother and sister in Auschwitz to the loathsome Hoess I know that isn't true.
I find it offensive when people argue about the NUMBERS of people who were murdered as if somehow that made it any LESS despicable.
As the German poet Erich Fried put it in his poem 'The Hagglers,' speaking on the very subject of 'rounding down' the numbers of victims:
'Who bids lower?'
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Feb 10, 2009 2:41:18 GMT
I know there are people who claim that only the Jews suffered for their ethnicity but as someone whose uncle was a porraimos survivor who lost his parents, brother and sister in Auschwitz to the loathsome Hoess I know that isn't true. I find it offensive when people argue about the NUMBERS of people who were murdered as if somehow that made it any LESS despicable. As the German poet Erich Fried put it in his poem 'The Hagglers,' speaking on the very subject of 'rounding down' the numbers of victims: 'Who bids lower?' No one denies that gypsies were kidnapped into concentration camps by the nazis for slave labor! It was no different than the kidnappings that common criminals carry out! Not even the holocaust deniers deny that many died of diseases and that the food and health care was a joke.. The full extent of murders, medical experiments, gas chambers, etc.. will probably never be known..
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Feb 11, 2009 21:07:11 GMT
The segment of Bishop Williamson's interview where he denied the existence of gas chambers can be viewed here. Apparently the Bishop is refusing to renounce his statement.
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Post by Big Lin on Feb 12, 2009 13:32:45 GMT
The segment of Bishop Williamson's interview where he denied the existence of gas chambers can be viewed here. Apparently the Bishop is refusing to renounce his statement. The kindest way I can describe this POS is as a 'plonker' or as a 'total wally.!
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 27, 2010 2:14:34 GMT
Bishop Williamson is back in the news again for making interviews. An attempt is being made to have him extradicted to Germany to face charges for his opinions.content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2010/01/holocaust-jews-catholic-vatican-pope-benedict-richard-williamson/1 QUOTE: Bishop Williamson is back -- doubting Holocaust, bashing Israel He's back. Holocaust-denying British Bishop Richard Williamson is giving interviews again, adding Israel-bashing to his opinion portfolio. He gave a 15 minute interview with a minor French politician known for anti-Zionist views, Pierre Panet, that was, posted in various French media, just in time to compete for headlines with Pope Benedict XVI's synagogue visit this week. Williamson is quoted saying there were "absolutely irreconcilable" differences between traditionalists and discussions at the Vatican "will end up as a dialog of the deaf." Williamson is one of four bishops who were excommunicated decades ago for their refusal to accept the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. Benedict made critical headlines last winter when he tried to envelop them back into the church -- if they let go of their discordant views and were rehabilitated. Williamson continued to give Holocaust denial interviews so alarming even his own leader in the ultra-right Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) gagged him, and brought him back from his seminary post in Argentina to England, reports Reuters religion editor Tom Heneghan at FaithWorld. Pope Benedict XVI, shown here visiting the Nazi Auschwitz death camp in Poland in 2006, is trying to rehabilitate traditionalist bishops such as Richard Williamson, who denies the Holocaust. Willamson says talks between the Vatican and his group will be "a dialog of the deaf." CAPTIONBy Alberto Pizzoli, AFP/Getty ImagesIn October, a German court fined Williamson 12,000 Euros after he was found guilty of Holocaust denial -- a hate crime under German law. Williamson had told Swedish television that there were no gas chambers, and only a few hundred thousand Jews, not six million, were killed by the Nazis. Now that talks between SSPX officials and the Vatican are underway, according to Williamson, they're going nowhere. Williamson continued: The two positions are absolutely irreconcilable. 2+2=4 and 2+2=5 are irreconcilable. Either those who say 2+2=4 renounce the truth and agree that 2+2=5 -- that is, the SSPX abandons the truth, which God forbids us to do -- or those who say 2+2=5 convert and return to the truth. Or the two meet halfway and say that 2+2=4-1/2. That's wrong. Either the SSPX becomes a traitor or Rome converts or it's a dialog of the deaf." Anna Arco's Diary blog carries an unofficial translation and the video in French as well. In this transcript Williamson says he spends his days "eating and sleeping" and writing in a blog that requires a private password to access. He also got his digs in at Israel, saying Christians have been "chased out" of the Holy Land and that, until the establishment of the Jewish State, ... in the many of the countries of the Middle East, Christians and Muslims have lived together in peace for centuries because of the force of things. Each recognized that he would not convert the other, therefore we lived together. (I would gather his peaceful time line is dated after the crusades.) Panet: The state of Israel: Does it have religious or political legitimacy? Williamson: The question is obviously delicate. Let us say that many people believe it is legitimate. This does not necessarily mean that it is. Williamson goes on to say Jews who don't accept Jesus are no longer the "chosen people." He also has more to say about faith and reason and why he thinks philosopher Immanuel Kant is "a criminal."
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Post by mikemarshall on Jan 27, 2010 3:28:14 GMT
The man is obviously deranged - as they would say in German, he is 'ganz sinloss.'
As someone who is married to a person who lost family members in Auschwitz because of their ethnicity, and who got on extremely well with her second cousin Jaime (whom she always referred to as 'Uncle Jaime') who, as it happened, was himself an Auschwitz survivor who had to live with the guilt of his own survival while his parents, brother and sister perished in that ghastly inferno, I have nothing but contempt for a man who can spread such poisonous and dishonest lies that not only re-open the wounds of those few survivors who still live and of their younger family members who grew up hearing first-hand about the appalling atrocities inflicted upon them but also whose lies give aid and comfort to neo-Nazis and racists all over the world. My own father fought in the Second World War - one of his few GOOD actions in life - and he physically helped to liberate one of the Nazi camps.
Men like this bishop, supposedly a member of a religion that at least pretends to espouse love, fill me with loathing, contempt and a deep desire to see them permanently ensconced in a padded cell within a secure mental institution!
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Post by mikemarshall on Jan 27, 2010 3:30:25 GMT
As for his remarks about Kant, one of my favourite philosophers and a man thoroughly committed to liberal humanist values, it is hardly surprising that someone as totally devoid of any sense of reality should oppose his enlightened and challenging views.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 27, 2010 3:45:26 GMT
The man is obviously deranged - as they would say in German, he is 'ganz sinloss.' As someone who is married to a person who lost family members in Auschwitz because of their ethnicity, and who got on extremely well with her second cousin Jaime (whom she always referred to as 'Uncle Jaime') who, as it happened, was himself an Auschwitz survivor who had to live with the guilt of his own survival while his parents, brother and sister perished in that ghastly inferno, I have nothing but contempt for a man who can spread such poisonous and dishonest lies that not only re-open the wounds of those few survivors who still live and of their younger family members who grew up hearing first-hand about the appalling atrocities inflicted upon them but also whose lies give aid and comfort to neo-Nazis and racists all over the world. My own father fought in the Second World War - one of his few GOOD actions in life - and he physically helped to liberate one of the Nazi camps. Men like this bishop, supposedly a member of a religion that at least pretends to espouse love, fill me with loathing, contempt and a deep desire to see them permanently ensconced in a padded cell within a secure mental institution! Sinnlos usually translates as senseless! Verrückt is the main German word for crazy. The Vatican as well as American and British wartime intelligence has a lot of secret classified information on what they knew was happening in Auschwitz, but they still refuse to release this information. Apparently they knew what was happening, but preferred to remain silent.
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Post by mouse on Jan 27, 2010 10:36:48 GMT
... in the many of the countries of the Middle East, Christians and Muslims have lived together in peace for centuries because of the force of things. Each recognized that he would not convert the other, therefore we lived together.""""
what a load of tosh
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