♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 10, 2009 15:03:58 GMT
The alledged Jack the Ripper diary which supposedly reveals James Maybrick as the ripper is interesting. I'm not convinced and Maybrick doesn't seem like the type. Part1/6
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 10, 2009 15:20:13 GMT
I disagree that a criminal mindset, here a thief, etc. makes someone less likely to become a murderer. On the contrary many serial killers started earlier with other crimes. I don't know if Ostrog always had his beard, if so that weakens the case against him. www.casebook.org/suspects/ostrog.html
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 11, 2009 5:13:36 GMT
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 11, 2009 5:25:46 GMT
You can't overlook McNaughton. He named Druitt, Ostrog and Klosminski. I have spent many years believing in Druitt as Jack but I have big reservations on that now. As far as Druitt goes as well as the very well forged ( i believe ) Maybrick diary. i don't believe the ripper had any remorse or conscience. Commiting acts that evil and repeating them is crossing far beyond the point of no return. I'd like to believe that the worst of the murderers suffer from guilt, but the facts don't support this. Since these 2 suspect theories are associated with remorse they fall way to the bottom of my suspect list.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 11, 2009 5:43:38 GMT
Thanks for posting the illustrations anna. The one big fact about Druitt that still makes him interesting as a suspect was the fact that he committed suicide at the right time if you believe, as I do, that Jack never killed again after Miller's Ct. He's also round about the correct age from witness statements but that's about it.
When I read the Maybrick Diary, shortly after it was 1st published, I thought, wow! This is incredible. But, it was too good to be true. If there was any chance of provenance for the diary, maybe, just maybe. But there isn't. As you say, a fabulous piece of forgery. A lot of care and thought went into it. I don't believe Mike Barrett produced the diary. I don't think he was clever enough. I would like to know who did produce the diary.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 11, 2009 11:09:25 GMT
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 12, 2009 5:27:07 GMT
Thanks for posting the illustrations anna. The one big fact about Druitt that still makes him interesting as a suspect was the fact that he committed suicide at the right time if you believe, as I do, that Jack never killed again after Miller's Ct. He's also round about the correct age from witness statements but that's about it. When I read the Maybrick Diary, shortly after it was 1st published, I thought, wow! This is incredible. But, it was too good to be true. If there was any chance of provenance for the diary, maybe, just maybe. But there isn't. As you say, a fabulous piece of forgery. A lot of care and thought went into it. I don't believe Mike Barrett produced the diary. I don't think he was clever enough. I would like to know who did produce the diary. www.casebook.org/suspects/druitt.htmlThe timeline with Druitt corresponds and the popular belief that a person couldn't live with his conscience after such murders sways people to support the Druitt theory. He doesn't seem to have that conspicious moustache that the ripper alledgedly had, at least in these pictures! I'm sure whoever forged the Maybrick diary is profiting from it! My belief is that the forger is a ripperologist and maybe had access or was an insider to the information that wasn't released until 1987. Still the ink and all have withstood forensic tests. The graffitti that was probably random and not associated with the ripper about the Jewes is said to really spell James ( Maybrick ) for the diary believers. The wording of the graffitti too is different, depending on the source or link! www.answers.com/topic/jack-the-ripper
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Post by gabriel on Oct 12, 2009 6:15:40 GMT
Good old Montagu John. If McNaughton hadn't mentioned him, I doubt anyone would have ever placed him anywhere near a Jack suspect. Big downer for him is that he was off playing cricket the day one of the early victims was found - Nicholls, I think. A spot of serial killing then anyone for cricket? Just doesn't gel, not for me.
I agree with you about the Diary. Someone who really knows their stuff wrote that. And what an audacious choice to name Jack as a murder victim well known to history buffs. It's got everything going for it, except the truth.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 12, 2009 11:23:02 GMT
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6164544.stm Last Updated: Monday, 20 November 2006, 10:53 GMT Jack the Ripper's face 'revealed' The case has fascinated people for decades An e-fit showing what detectives believe serial killer Jack the Ripper looked like has been revealed. Using new profiling techniques, investigators have created a picture of what they believe the 19th Century murderer would have looked like. The man, who evaded police in the 1880s, is thought to have killed and mutilated five London prostitutes. The Scotland Yard team describe him as "frighteningly normal" but someone capable of "extraordinary cruelty". And investigators have admitted that police at the time were probably searching for the wrong kind of man. Head of analysis for Scotland Yard's Violent Crime Command Laura Richards, who has studied serial killer Fred West and Soham murderer Ian Huntley, revisited the case using modern police techniques. She brought together a team of experts, including pathologists, historians and a geographical profiler, to find out if the case could ever be solved. The result has been the most accurate physical, geographical and psychological portrait of the Ripper ever put together. This is further than anyone else has got. It would have been enough for coppers to get out and start knocking on doors... they would have got him Ms Richards said the 118-year-old evidence shows the Ripper was between the ages of 25 and 35, between 5ft 5ins and 5ft 7ins tall. He was also of stocky build. Investigators have even been able to pinpoint his address. Ms Richards said: "For the first time, we are able to understand the kind of person Jack the Ripper was. "We can name the street where he probably lived; and we can see what he looked like; and we can explain, finally, why this killer eluded justice." Metropolitan Police Commander John Grieve, who has worked with the team of experts, believes the killer would have been caught if officers at the time had this new information. "This is further than anyone else has got," he said. "It would have been enough for coppers to get out and start knocking on doors... they would have got him." Dubbed Britain's first serial killer, the Ripper is believed to have killed at least five prostitutes in Whitechapel, east London, in 1888, but was never caught. His victims were stabbed, with some of the bodies badly mutilated and even having organs removed. Some believed he had medical training. Celebrity suspects The pseudonym Jack the Ripper was coined from a letter sent to a London news agency at the time of the murders, supposedly from the killer himself, but which police later dismissed as a hoax. Using their experience of modern-day crime to examine 13 different witness statements taken at the time of the killings, the team were left with a picture of someone Ms Richards described as " perfectly sane, frighteningly normal, and yet capable of extraordinary cruelty". Mr Grieve added: "It's a popular misconception that nobody ever saw the murderer, that he just vanished into the fog of London.
"Well that's just not right. There were witnesses at the time who were highly thought of by the police. "If we were doing this investigation today, we could pool together all these descriptions and the kind of face that the police were clearly looking for. "You could come up with a composite and you can go beyond just a full face, you can get something that really helps the police to look for suspects." This is a few years old but still interesting. He has some slight, and I mean slight, resemblance to Druitt.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 12, 2009 14:10:47 GMT
It seems like everyone has their prime suspects. In the pictures at least Druitt seems a bit on the frail side. True Chapman was 23 when the murders started, but some serial killer types start as teenagers. I think the computer's attempt to determine where the ripper lived neglects the fact that the woman the ripper targeted-easy to approach prostitutes-were primarily in WhiteChapel. Gabriel what district was further east of WhiteChapel? It's my suspicion that the district east of WhiteChapel was probably void of prostitution and the women there would be harder and riskier to approach. Perhaps the computer neglects this. George Chapman/Severin Klosowskiwww.suite101.com/lesson.cfm/18593/1945/5 QUOTE: Shortly before her death, Mary was seen by a neighbor woman. She was wearing a dark, shabby skirt, red jacket and no hat. The neighbor said Mary was accompanied by a man with a thick, carroty mustache. She described him as being dressed in dark clothing and wearing a black billycock hat. At 2:00 AM, witness George Hutchinson saw Mary with another man near the Queen's Head pub. He gave a lengthy description of this gentleman who was "Jewish looking", with a heavy dark mustache, wearing a soft felt hat, a long dark coat, and white collar with black necktie. He also had a massive gold chain in his waistcoat. He had kid gloves in his right hand and a small package in his left. He saw the man give Mary Kelly a red handkerchief.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 13, 2009 6:54:18 GMT
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 13, 2009 13:06:16 GMT
Thanks Gabriel! The ripper apparently never struck in Stepney.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 14, 2009 6:43:28 GMT
God, those illustrations of the victims make them all look like carthorses. And they weren't. I think going further east is probably the wrong direction. I'd have him heading for somewhere either south-east to Aldgate, or west towards Liverpool St Station.
He had to be within walking distance - even though dressed in dark clothes he still would have blood on him, some clotted as well. So he has to get somewhere where he can get changed and clean up. He wasn't using public or private transport so it's obvious his hole has to be somewhere he can get to quickly. Given the route he took after Mitre Sq, to dump Eddowes' apron in Gouldson St, could just have been a lucky chance but I don't think so.
I believe he knew the area extremely well but I don't think he actually lived in Whitechapel. It would be too much of a risk for Jack to chance being recognised.
So that's why I don't believe in a royal prince or a royal surgeon or Jack the mad top hatted toff from the West End.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 14, 2009 14:09:38 GMT
There was of course this fictional film about the Royal Surgeon killing these girls to keep a scandalous relationship with Mary Kelly that a prince had from becoming known. Pure fiction and anti-monarchy sentiment. I forget the film's name.
Since after the Eddowes murder the ripper goes towards the center of WhiteChapel again only turning left into Gouldson Street to dump evidence indicates or implies that he either lived or was lodging in WhiteChapel somewhere.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 14, 2009 19:01:37 GMT
It's surprising that the American Dr. Tumblety gets 2nd place among the most likely suspects on the list i posted. I think his uterus collections were more likely motivated by a desire to practice illegal abortions than a ripper obsession. He was a homosexual and targeting females in what most forensic expects describe as sexually motivated murders seems unlikely. If i'm not mistaken he was a rather big person too and probably clumsy. Tumblety was 55 years old in 1888, which is really old to get started as a serial killer. He was criminal to some extent and Scotland Yard informed the US authorities that he was a ripper suspect when he returned to the US. Francis Tumblety www.casebook.org/suspects/tumblety.html
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Post by gabriel on Oct 14, 2009 21:53:59 GMT
The latest film to follow Stephen's Knight's idea of Sir William Gull systematically killing pros to get at Kelly was called From Hell. It's either from the very late 90's or early 00's. Johnny Depp played Inspector Abberline as an opium addicted psychic who falls in love with Kelly then dies at the end of the film. I'm not sure if it was meant to be a comedy but the plot line was hilarious.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 14, 2009 23:03:44 GMT
The latest film to follow Stephen's Knight's idea of Sir William Gull systematically killing pros to get at Kelly was called From Hell. It's either from the very late 90's or early 00's. Johnny Depp played Inspector Abberline as an opium addicted psychic who falls in love with Kelly then dies at the end of the film. I'm not sure if it was meant to be a comedy but the plot line was hilarious. Oh i remember now! The movie was "captivating" although it was a distorted fiction. The English preoccupation with the Royal Family makes it inevitable that ripper suspects associated with them would make the popular suspect list. Gull was 71 to 72 years old in 1888-must have had some masonic powers going for him! ;D Another absurdity is placing Lewis Carroll, the author of Alice in Wonderland, on the suspect list. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_William_Gull,_1st_Baronet
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Post by gabriel on Oct 15, 2009 6:33:39 GMT
One day, men will look back and say I gave birth to the 20th century. I actually think Jack would be chuffed to have such a great line attributed to him. From Hell is all wrong and I chuckle at the mistakes and wrong leaps in logic. But...it is a beautiful looking film. Whoever did the sets and the costumes and found the locations are at the top of their crafts.
Have a look at this trailer that Anna posted earlier and you'll see what I mean. The story is a load of bull and poor old Fred Abberline, who didn't die until 1929, would be spinning in his grave to be thought of as an opium smoking weirdo.
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Post by gabriel on Oct 15, 2009 11:02:06 GMT
OK Francis Tumblety. Strange name for a strange man. Det Littlechild brought him into view about 100 years ago. Homosexual so why he was ever followed is beyond me but the authorites didn't have the psychological profiling we have today. If he was a serial killer he would have gone after men, which is what male homosexual killers do. They prey on what attracts them.
Did Jack prey on what attracted him? Mostly middle aged pros? I don't think that's what Jack was about. Jack had serious mental problems that were built around women and a fairly easy guess would be his mother as Number One cause. I guess he had a bad experience/s with pros who were the only women he felt he could attract, so add in a deep seated inferiority complex where women were concerned. And a lack of any meaningful casual relationships with women.
I think Jack was a time bomb waiting to go off. And he did.
Think about his namesake, the Yorkshire Ripper. The same. Only difference, Jack didn't have a lorry.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 15, 2009 20:49:39 GMT
We certainly don't have enough information to convict anyone of the ripper murderers. Tabloids constantly claim to reveal the ripper's identity, but i think the best we can do is narrow things down to a strong suspect or two and a number of reasonable suspects and eliminate some hysterical tabloid nonsense. George Barnett is number 5 on the suspect list i posted here a while back. I think it's absurd to claim he killed the other girls to scare his girl friend Mary Kelly off the streets. It's reasonable to examine the possibility that he murdered Mary Kelly in a copy kill fashion though, which would mean there was more than one ripper. Barnett didn't approve of Miss Kelly's prostitution and perhaps an alledged lesbian affair she was supposedly having too. True there is a lot of misinformation surrounding all the ripper suspects. No one disputes the fact that Mr. Barnett worked cleaning ( disembowling ) fish and had a dispute with Miss Kelly, which resulted in the broken window. The fact that Miss Kelly's room was locked from the inside when her body was discovered is also curious. Barnett did alledgedly possess a room key. Joseph Barnett www.casebook.org/suspects/barnett.html
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