|
Post by ariel on Oct 29, 2016 14:24:32 GMT
That's what I do, and I find the Muslim-bashing offensive. Many Muslims I've known know very little about what is really written in the Koran and Hadiths and would be just as shocked as I was and am to discover certain horrific passages. I criticise what's written in these scriptures and the Fundamentalists who practice this. Well... you should read The Bible sometime. Same nonsense.
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 29, 2016 14:58:23 GMT
Many Muslims I've known know very little about what is really written in the Koran and Hadiths and would be just as shocked as I was and am to discover certain horrific passages. I criticise what's written in these scriptures and the Fundamentalists who practice this. Well... you should read The Bible sometime. Same nonsense. Jesus Christ started a New Covenant and saved an adulteress condemned to death by stoning according to Law of Moses and forgave her. Over 600 years later the Sunni Hadiths record a woman confessing her adultery to Muhammad and Muhammad ordered her to be stoned to death.
There is absolutely no equality or comparison between Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam. The later is also virulently anti womens rights, anti LBGT rights and very intolerant of anyone or anything that doesn't submit to Islam. The violence between Sunni and Shi'ia Muslims alone shows that it's not a religion of peace.
Many Muslims again only have a very superfical and cherry picked understanding of Islam.
|
|
|
Post by ariel on Oct 29, 2016 15:09:05 GMT
Well... you should read The Bible sometime. Same nonsense. Jesus Christ started a New Covenant and saved an adulteress condemned to death by stoning according to Law of Moses and forgave her. Over 600 years later the Sunni Hadiths record a woman confessing her adultery to Muhammad and Muhammad ordered her to be stoned to death.
There is absolutely no equality or comparison between Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam. The later is also virulently anti womens rights, anti LBGT rights and very intolerant of anyone or anything that doesn't submit to Islam. The violence between Sunni and Shi'ia Muslims alone shows that it's not a religion of peace.
Many Muslims again only have a very superfical and cherry picked understanding of Islam. There are extremists of all stripes. They're all nuts, as far as I'm concerned. My theory is that when you keep concentrating on Muslims, you don't have to reflect on the problems within your own set of beliefs.
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 29, 2016 15:12:21 GMT
Jesus Christ started a New Covenant and saved an adulteress condemned to death by stoning according to Law of Moses and forgave her. Over 600 years later the Sunni Hadiths record a woman confessing her adultery to Muhammad and Muhammad ordered her to be stoned to death.
There is absolutely no equality or comparison between Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam. The later is also virulently anti womens rights, anti LBGT rights and very intolerant of anyone or anything that doesn't submit to Islam. The violence between Sunni and Shi'ia Muslims alone shows that it's not a religion of peace.
Many Muslims again only have a very superfical and cherry picked understanding of Islam. There are extremists of all stripes. They're all nuts, as far as I'm concerned. My theory is that when you keep concentrating on Muslims, you don't have to reflect on the problems within your own set of beliefs. We have stood up decisively against Westboro Baptists, Aryan Nations and other pre Christ's message of forgiveness cultists. They are not a factor can spout and rant with free speech 1st amendment rights, but rule no countries.
|
|
|
Post by ariel on Oct 30, 2016 0:41:36 GMT
Sorry, I can't untangle that post. Makes no sense.
|
|
|
Post by mikemarshall on Oct 30, 2016 20:26:57 GMT
Anna, Sharia law does NOT exist.
Sharia law is 'divine law' and as such NO human - Muslim or otherwise - CAN practise Sharia Law.
Any Muslim who is stupid enough to believe that it DOES and that they CAN practise it is committing BLASPHEMY and is therefore NOT a Muslim.
Sharia is NOT 'Islam's legal system' - and, for what it is worth, every Muslim country has DIFFERENT legal systems as well as having numerous different interpretations of Sharia which does NOT have the same force as civil or criminal law in most Muslim countries.
Frankly, the so-called Muslims demanding Sharia law are a) no different from Orthodox Jews or fundamentalist Christians demanding THEIR belief systems be supreme; b) as they believe that the particular interpretation of 'fiq' to which they subscribe is superior to the Quran (which directly CONTRADICTS much of what they CLAIM to believe in) the only LOGICAL conclusion is that the demonstrators are NOT Muslim but are either non-Muslims PRETENDING to be Muslims or else brainwashed idiots who have never read the Quran which would show them clearly that the so-called Sharia law demonstrators are NOT Muslims and are guilty of BLASPHEMY.
|
|
|
Post by Big Lin on Oct 31, 2016 21:47:22 GMT
It's worth pointing out that many of the things done by IS for instance are directly forbidden by the Quran and others go way beyond its remit.
For instance (and I'll dig out the relevant Suras) a woman accused of adultery can be acquitted according to the Quran simply by denying it four times.
A woman can only be convicted of adultery if two men have witnessed it.
The punishment laid down by the Quran for adultery is flogging.
So those who kill adulterers are VIOLATING the precepts of the Quran.
That pretty much shows they CAN'T be Muslims.
And by the way it's the Old Testament that commands stoning to death a woman taken in adultery - NOT the Quran.
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 3, 2016 15:51:29 GMT
It's worth pointing out that many of the things done by IS for instance are directly forbidden by the Quran and others go way beyond its remit. For instance (and I'll dig out the relevant Suras) a woman accused of adultery can be acquitted according to the Quran simply by denying it four times. A woman can only be convicted of adultery if two men have witnessed it. The punishment laid down by the Quran for adultery is flogging. So those who kill adulterers are VIOLATING the precepts of the Quran. That pretty much shows they CAN'T be Muslims. And by the way it's the Old Testament that commands stoning to death a woman taken in adultery - NOT the Quran. You're ignoring the Sunni Hadiths which are likewise considered holy in Saudi Arabia and all Sunnite Muslim nations. Denying their validity and truthfulness will get you in trouble with the law for apostasy and or blasphemy in Sunnite theocratic nations. They testify to Muhammad personally ordering a woman who confessed her adultery to him to be stoned to death. I can find this and post it if you wish. There are many versions of the Quran too and the dualistic nature of Islam has no problem accepting contradictions as both being true.
Typically in adultery the man will be lashed and the woman stoned to death by Fundamentalists. There is also a tradition that if the condemned can free himself or herself from being stoned to death they will be spared. Women however are buried in the ground to their breasts and men not as deep so it's obviously much easier for the man to free himself.
The Quran is often vague which is typical of all "poetry" and the Quran for what it's worth is because of it's poetic nature often not clear and thus Sunnite Muslims go to their Hadiths for clarification. Shiites as you noted have different Hadiths.
|
|
|
Post by ariel on Nov 3, 2016 16:18:18 GMT
It's worth pointing out that many of the things done by IS for instance are directly forbidden by the Quran and others go way beyond its remit. For instance (and I'll dig out the relevant Suras) a woman accused of adultery can be acquitted according to the Quran simply by denying it four times. A woman can only be convicted of adultery if two men have witnessed it. The punishment laid down by the Quran for adultery is flogging. So those who kill adulterers are VIOLATING the precepts of the Quran. That pretty much shows they CAN'T be Muslims. And by the way it's the Old Testament that commands stoning to death a woman taken in adultery - NOT the Quran. You're ignoring the Sunni Hadiths which are likewise considered holy in Saudi Arabia and all Sunnite Muslim nations. Denying their validity and truthfulness will get you in trouble with the law for apostasy and or blasphemy in Sunnite theocratic nations. They testify to Muhammad personally ordering a woman who confessed her adultery to him to be stoned to death. I can find this and post it if you wish. There are many versions of the Quran too and the dualistic nature of Islam has no problem accepting contradictions as both being true.
Typically in adultery the man will be lashed and the woman stoned to death by Fundamentalists. There is also a tradition that if the condemned can free himself or herself from being stoned to death they will be spared. Women however are buried in the ground to their breasts and men not as deep so it's obviously much easier for the man to free himself.
The Quran is often vague which is typical of all "poetry" and the Quran for what it's worth is because of it's poetic nature often not clear and thus Sunnite Muslims go to their Hadiths for clarification. Shiites as you noted have different Hadiths.
The Bible is full of "poetry" too (at least, we hope that it's poetry, because it's nasty stuff.)
|
|
|
Post by Big Lin on Nov 3, 2016 16:53:22 GMT
The Quran trumps the Hadiths. In any case even Muslim clerics disagree about which of the Hadiths are authentic.
And the seven different schools of fiq disagree even more over how they should be interpreted.
So, to use a Jumboism, you get to be wrong again, Anna.
It's always better to talk out of knowledge and experience rather than ignorance and prejudice.
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 4, 2016 1:39:57 GMT
The Quran trumps the Hadiths. In any case even Muslim clerics disagree about which of the Hadiths are authentic. And the seven different schools of fiq disagree even more over how they should be interpreted. So, to use a Jumboism, you get to be wrong again, Anna. It's always better to talk out of knowledge and experience rather than ignorance and prejudice. Well at least you're finally admitting that "sharia" exists in Islamic theology despite the different schools of thought. I'm not aware of any other religion which kills cartoonists for portraying their prophet or leader.
To all historical accounts Muhammad was a violent pedophile, slave owner ( who called his Black slaves "raisin heads" ) and a genocidal killer who executed the male Jews of Medina, who granted him refuge 5 years earlier and took the 3 prettiest Jewish girls aged 17 to 18 as sex slaves.
Only male children who had no pubic hairs and women were spared and kept as slaves. The Quran refers to this in Surah 33 and the Hadiths go into great detail. wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Genocide_of_Banu_Qurayza www.answering-islam.de/Silas/femalecaptives.htm wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Muhammads_Wives_and_Concubines
All citizens of Western civilisation are free and shall remain free to criticise, mock and condemn the historical Muhammad without fear of violent reprisals.
|
|
|
Post by Big Lin on Nov 4, 2016 20:39:05 GMT
Anna, why are you so unwilling to accept that you've been proved wrong?
Again and again, actually.
Sharia is divine law, NOT human law.
Fiq is the human interpretation of sharia.
And as you've been told till I'm blue in the face there are SEVEN DIFFERENT schools of fiq - four Sunni, three Shia and ALL interpret it IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
Trying to make out that people who routinely do things that are FORBIDDEN by the Quran are somehow typical Muslims when the mere fact that they DO those things proves they're NOT Muslims at all is a desperate ploy.
You really do need to stop your obsession with this subject.
Now why can't you just admit that you're WRONG?
You've been proved WRONG over and over again.
Just accept that speaking from ignorance and prejudice is never as good a place to argue from as speaking from experience and knowledge.
|
|