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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 14, 2009 13:27:24 GMT
NO, it does NOT!! murderers escape and murder others, criminals injure and murder other inmates and guards. You're talking about the inadequacies of the prison service though, not the actual sentence. Done properly, a life sentence in a high security prison should not offer any opportunities to escape or harm others. The cost of keeping an inmate on death row with all the appeals and repeated appeals is far higher than the cost of a normal inmate. Killing people properly costs money. I know you have religious convictions Jumbo and I respect that, but I put it to you that the Lord giveth & the Lord taketh away. God gave you life. No man has the right to take it away. I don't care what it does or does not say in the Bible's small print - that was written by men, for men and to suit the vicarious politics of the time. If theologians can seriously question the virgin birth, then there has to be doubt about the interpretation of "Thou shalt not kill". I hope I've made it clear that I'm not a soft liberal when it comes to crime & punishment. I think a desire for revenge has blinded some from seeing that executing people is actually the soft option. Why do you think some people, faced with a life sentence actually request the death penalty or attempt suicide? It's cos death is the easy way out. And soft liberals like you are happy to satisfy their desires not at all. when you start from a false premise, everything that grows from that premise is wrong. you start from the false premise that the life of a murderer is somehow worth as much as that of a real person. that is what you base your entire argument on, and since that is wrong, your argument goes nowhere. that is the problem with antis. there is NO rational argument against the death penalty. every argument is based solely on emotion, and the ridiculous emotional concept that i pointed out. yes, i have religious convictions, but, my support for the death penalty has nothing to do with them. i spent the first forty years of my life being as adamant an anti as i am now pro. it took me that long to grasp reality and get it right. nonetheless, it is comical when supposed "christians" attempt to claim that christ opposed the death penalty, when the bible clearly proves that he ordained it. take a gander at the parable of the vineyard in which the owner sent emissaries to collect the rent, who were murdered, then sent his son who was also murdered. what did christ say was the proper punishment for the murderers? when the thief was next to him on the cross, jesus forgave him, but did not allow him to live, and that was for robbery. you are right that man does not have the right to take life, which is why god mandated that the aggregate society do so. at any rate, again, we are not talking about taking a life that has not been voluntarily relinquished nope, trying to use christ as an excuse to be against the death penalty falls flat on its face. you are right about the cost, and that is truly lamentable. there is NO reason for it to cost as much as it usually does, nor take the amount of time that it does. there is simply no justification for an appeal being allowed more than one trip through the courts, which can be done in three years. now that we have foolproof dna tests, any guilt or innocence questions need not even be appealed. if we limited the frivolous appeals, the costs would be more than halved. no, it would not be possible to put all murderers in an escape proof environment. the only way that could be done is to have them in a death row setting where they do not have access to other prisoners, but still wouldn't be acceptable since they would have access to the guards. nonetheless, to house them all in a death row setting would exponentially increase the cost, and would dwarf the cost of executing them.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 14, 2009 13:30:32 GMT
I'm against the death penalty. There's no rational reason we need to kill those that are already serving there punishment in prison. It's not up to us to play God, to decide who lives or dies, to commit murder just because murder was committed. We don't have the right to take a life. It's not or it shouldn't be up to us to pull the plug. It's not going to bring the victim's back. It's not going to make anyone feel better or contribute in any positive way to the victim's memory. The death penalty speaks vengeance and vengeance doesn't help anyone. you negate all of your points. how does imprisoning a murderer bring the victim back? how does imprisoning the murderer contribute in any positive way to the victim's memory? how the hell does imprisoning a murderer not speak of vengeance? sorry hon, you lose all the way around?
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 14, 2009 13:32:30 GMT
what a bunch of Bullshyt, with a capital B. executing a murderer is a job, no different than going to the office and booting up the computer. if you aren't competent to do the job, don't do it. this imbecile should be taking the satisfaction of a job well done instead of boo hooing stupidity He's walked the walk Jumbo. You've just talked the talk. He seems to have been very competent. He killed 62 people. How many have you killed? robert elliot went pretty much the same way. max nix. did sanson? unfortunately, i have never had the pleasure of personally removing garbage from the earth, yet
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Jan 14, 2009 16:02:10 GMT
This is why the death penalty is important to me... news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7828482.stmI want to see worthless, evil bastards like this swing, I want them to feel the terror of knowing that they are going to die for what they have done. AH
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Post by swl on Jan 14, 2009 16:15:33 GMT
Is dying so scary? Doesn't frighten me in the least. Death by hanging either snaps your neck leading to instantaneous death or asphyxiation, which isn't a bad way to go. People commit suicide all the time, it's a popular hobby.
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Post by swl on Jan 14, 2009 16:16:44 GMT
robert elliot went pretty much the same way. max nix. did sanson? Sorry, I don't understand. Who are these people?
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Jan 14, 2009 17:08:22 GMT
Is dying so scary? Doesn't frighten me in the least. Death by hanging either snaps your neck leading to instantaneous death or asphyxiation, which isn't a bad way to go. People commit suicide all the time, it's a popular hobby. It's a popular hobby with mentaly ill people and people who are in vulnerable states of mind. If suicide was so easy and death so desirable, every person who ever got life (or even a few years) would do themselves in within a week of going to prison....we'd have thousands of prison places...but we don't, because most people aren't very eager to die at all. Not often that you make a poorly thought out post SWL, not often at all, but the last one was one of them. AH
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Post by swl on Jan 14, 2009 19:08:22 GMT
It was a flippant aside. The point is many lifers have expressed a preference for the death penalty. More than a few have tried or succeeded in suicide - despite the fact they're in a prison and supposedly supervised 24/7. I'd venture a lot more would want it if prison conditions were a bit more spartan.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 14, 2009 19:42:52 GMT
robert elliot went pretty much the same way. max nix. did sanson? Sorry, I don't understand. Who are these people? robert elliot was the executioner at sing sing. the sansons were the father son executioners in france during the revolution and afterward
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Post by swl on Jan 14, 2009 21:26:46 GMT
Sorry, I don't understand. Who are these people? robert elliot was the executioner at sing sing. the sansons were the father son executioners in france during the revolution and afterward Thanks ;D
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 14, 2009 21:44:59 GMT
robert elliot was the executioner at sing sing. the sansons were the father son executioners in france during the revolution and afterward Thanks ;D no problem
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 17, 2009 20:51:18 GMT
The point is also that if you are serving a LWOP sentence you have no incentive to behave in anything other than a disruptive and violent way. What MORE can they do to you if you're already banged up for life? You can murder anyone else and laugh at justice.
No, execution has to be the right way for heartless premeditated murderers.
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Post by whitedove on Jan 17, 2009 21:51:02 GMT
I'm for the DP.....
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Post by reb on Jan 20, 2009 4:30:33 GMT
I'm PRO and always will be pro. I wrote to a now executed murderer for over four years until the Florida State Prison sat him down in the "hot seat." I used to tell Jeff he needs to die for his sins. Of course he generally didn't agree with me although he himself felt that some of his scumbag neighbors deserved to die. Jeff's son Barry is approx., the exact same age (33) as his father was when Florida killed him on November the 7th, 1988... ~ Dead Man Writing ~ www.angelfire.com/oz/today/deadman.html
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 20, 2009 8:47:00 GMT
I'm PRO and always will be pro. I wrote to a now executed murderer for over four years until the Florida State Prison sat him down in the "hot seat." I used to tell Jeff he needs to die for his sins. Of course he generally didn't agree with me although he himself felt that some of his scumbag neighbors deserved to die. Jeff's son Barry is approx., the exact same age (33) as his father was when Florida killed him on November the 7th, 1988... ~ Dead Man Writing ~ www.angelfire.com/oz/today/deadman.htmlI think that's creepy. Why would you write to someone and tell them that they 'needed' to die 'for their sins'
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 20, 2009 14:38:21 GMT
Why does Doreen not only write to Richard Ramirez but try to persuade everyone else that he's innocent?
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 20, 2009 15:22:26 GMT
I'm PRO and always will be pro. I wrote to a now executed murderer for over four years until the Florida State Prison sat him down in the "hot seat." I used to tell Jeff he needs to die for his sins. Of course he generally didn't agree with me although he himself felt that some of his scumbag neighbors deserved to die. Jeff's son Barry is approx., the exact same age (33) as his father was when Florida killed him on November the 7th, 1988... ~ Dead Man Writing ~ www.angelfire.com/oz/today/deadman.htmlI think that's creepy. Why would you write to someone and tell them that they 'needed' to die 'for their sins' why not? it's a million times better than telling them abjectly stupid idiocy such as they don't deserve to die. besides, it would be comical
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 20, 2009 15:25:49 GMT
Why does Doreen not only write to Richard Ramirez but try to persuade everyone else that he's innocent? doreen is the ultimate proof that all the education in the world can't prevent abject stupidity when one is determined to be stupid. marrying such a totally worthless piece of trash is, in and of itself, a manifestation of stupidity, but to claim such absurdity as she does, that she knows is a lie, makes her one of the worst of the worst. euthanasia is the only thing that could help her
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Post by everso on Jan 21, 2009 1:14:12 GMT
I'm definitely against capital punishment, for the simple reason that there have been too many people found innocent of murder at a later date. At least in the UK, that is. Don't know about the US. Over the last few years, we've heard of several women who were imprisoned for the murder of their babies and who have later been released on appeal after it was found that the babies died of natural causes. Now perhaps you pros could tell me how you would have brought these women back to life? No, I'm with SWL on this one. Life imprisonment should mean for the rest of their lives. At least if further evidence crops up later on, the poor bugger wouldn't be dead.
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Post by trubble on Jan 21, 2009 22:21:54 GMT
I voted against.
That's because as the system stands now it is flawed. I am writing from Ireland but I refer to every system, Irish, British, American and any other country.
I don't know how 'unflawed' it would have to get to make me change my mind.
I have a horrible feeling that the biggest flaw is 'human nature' ie that as soon as we clean up one mess in the justice system, another will appear. I am using the words 'justice' and 'system' in their broadest possible sense. They include everything from the highest judge in the land to the lynch mob in the gutter.
But I am not as against the DP as I once used to be. I have seen good cases for it. If there was an option to vote 'ever so slightly open minded' I would have ticked that.
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