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Post by Big Lin on Jun 16, 2009 23:03:04 GMT
(Image © AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta, File)
Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilising the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences some of the sensations of drowning.
Use of waterboarding dates back to the 16th century when it was a common interrogation technique during the Italian Inquisition. It was also used in Cambodian prisons during the reign of the Khmer Rouge in the 1970s.
One of the enduring legacies of George W Bush's presidency is the use of waterboarding by the CIA against terrorist suspects. According to memos released by the US Department of Justice in 2009, waterboarding was one of 10 torture techniques authorised for the interrogation of a captured al-Qaeda operative.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on May 3, 2010 22:49:51 GMT
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Post by sadie1263 on May 4, 2010 1:06:55 GMT
So what are your thoughts on torture if it avoids another 9/11 attack or saves the lives of possibly 1000's of people......is it acceptable then? Or is it never acceptable under any conditions?
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on May 6, 2010 1:15:17 GMT
So what are your thoughts on torture if it avoids another 9/11 attack or saves the lives of possibly 1000's of people......is it acceptable then? Or is it never acceptable under any conditions? Sadie I was say that's a leading question with an obvious answer. Of course it is acceptable under those conditions. If I had a terrorist in my custody, and I believed he knew the facts, participants, and plan details for an upcoming terrorist attack, I would squeeze his balls until he talked. No hesitation. No moral concerns. No doubts. It would be about saving lives with me. That scumbag has no rights in my eyes. But the beauty of waterboarding is that it really isn't torture. It's just that the terrorist being interrogated thinks it's torture because that's what it feels like to him. Waterboarding doesn't threaten his life or permanent damage. It does get his undivided attention which may cause him to spill the beans on his comrades. Torture is cutting off his fingers one by one. Torture is cutting out his tongue. Torture is hanging him off the ground by one arm for maybe 24 hours. Real torture is disfiguring and permanently damaging. Waterboarding is not. |
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on May 6, 2010 4:09:55 GMT
So what are your thoughts on torture if it avoids another 9/11 attack or saves the lives of possibly 1000's of people......is it acceptable then? Or is it never acceptable under any conditions? Sadie I was say that's a leading question with an obvious answer. Of course it is acceptable under those conditions. If I had a terrorist in my custody, and I believed he knew the facts, participants, and plan details for an upcoming terrorist attack, I would squeeze his balls until he talked. No hesitation. No moral concerns. No doubts. It would be about saving lives with me. That scumbag has no rights in my eyes. But the beauty of waterboarding is that it really isn't torture. It's just that the terrorist being interrogated thinks it's torture because that's what it feels like to him. Waterboarding doesn't threaten his life or permanent damage. It does get his undivided attention which may cause him to spill the beans on his comrades. Torture is cutting off his fingers one by one. Torture is cutting out his tongue. Torture is hanging him off the ground by one arm for maybe 24 hours. Real torture is disfiguring and permanently damaging. Waterboarding is not. ![]() I'm impressed how these cowardly Jihadi terrorists crack when they get exposed to what every California beach surfer has experienced at least once! Waterboarding is just falling off the surf board!
Suicidal people are cowards and this should be exploited!
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Post by mouse on May 6, 2010 8:04:20 GMT
torture is bad..regardless of the reasons for doing it
however
surely in this day and age we could find better ways of getting information via technology..drugs etc ...
i am in principle against torture for any reason as quite often the tortuer is told what they want to hear......
BUT should my family ,,my country be at risk then because i am only human anything would be ok by me to stop them being harmed
AND should my family..country actually be harmed then torture would be ok by me..........ie revenge on the perpetrators..........as long as some one else did it..
not sure i could torture another human being..BUT i know i could drop a bomb and wipe out an entire area of people.......not logical i know..but human emotion has nothing to do with logic
its a dilemma...have never been one for turning the other cheek
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Post by sadie1263 on May 6, 2010 14:12:06 GMT
So what are your thoughts on torture if it avoids another 9/11 attack or saves the lives of possibly 1000's of people......is it acceptable then? Or is it never acceptable under any conditions? Sadie I was say that's a leading question with an obvious answer. Of course it is acceptable under those conditions. If I had a terrorist in my custody, and I believed he knew the facts, participants, and plan details for an upcoming terrorist attack, I would squeeze his balls until he talked. No hesitation. No moral concerns. No doubts. It would be about saving lives with me. That scumbag has no rights in my eyes. But the beauty of waterboarding is that it really isn't torture. It's just that the terrorist being interrogated thinks it's torture because that's what it feels like to him. Waterboarding doesn't threaten his life or permanent damage. It does get his undivided attention which may cause him to spill the beans on his comrades. Torture is cutting off his fingers one by one. Torture is cutting out his tongue. Torture is hanging him off the ground by one arm for maybe 24 hours. Real torture is disfiguring and permanently damaging. Waterboarding is not. Well.....I think the question has to be asked that way......of course if you just ask the question is torture acceptable.......nobody wants to jump up and down and say yes.........but when you ask the hard questions.....when there are lives on the line.....when people are going to die......and that is usually what is going to happen.....is it acceptable then......then the answer has to be yes. I think there can be more humane ways of doing it......but seriously......if we have to have the information.....I'm all for getting it. |
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Post by Big Lin on May 6, 2010 15:12:48 GMT
Even in the Second World War they had sodium pentothal - the so called truth drug.
Torture is a totally inefficient way of getting information because it has been shown again and again that people will say almost anything and incriminate almost anyone just for the pain to stop.
It's also been shown by direct comparison that the information achieved by torture from intelligence services is LESS reliable, LESS valuable and LESS comprehensive than the information achieved by hard graft and using a few brain cells.
Even apart from the moral issues, torture is a totally inefficient and counterproductive way of obtaining information.
It also tends to STRENGTHEN the opposition to the regime or whatever being represented by the people doing the torturing.
It's a lose-lose situation on every level!
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Post by randomvioce on May 6, 2010 17:14:49 GMT
torture is an evil act and only practiced by the most backward Countries in the World and supported by the most vilest scum.
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Post by randomvioce on May 6, 2010 17:18:14 GMT
But the beauty of waterboarding is that it really isn't torture. It's just that the terrorist being interrogated thinks it's torture because that's what it feels like to him. [/color][/size][/quote] So, being held under water and threatened with drowing is not torture? Really? What an evil, backward Country you must come from. No wonder Christians are hated all over the World. What a bunch of backward people you Americans are. |
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Post by fretslider on May 6, 2010 17:20:03 GMT
torture is an evil act and only practiced by the most backward Countries in the World and supported by the most vilest scum. So why was your government complicit in it? |
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Post by randomvioce on May 6, 2010 17:28:02 GMT
So why was your government complicit in it? The last Government where made up of poodles without a shread of a backbone between them. I am not suprised that they have assisted and had a hand in torture, even if they where too squemish to get their hands dirty. |
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Post by fretslider on May 6, 2010 17:28:59 GMT
So why was your government complicit in it? The last Government where made up of poodles without a shread of a backbone between them. I am not suprised that they have assisted and had a hand in torture, even if they where too squemish to get their hands dirty. Whoa, you'll be voting Tory next!!! |
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Post by randomvioce on May 6, 2010 20:08:16 GMT
Whoa, you'll be voting Tory next!!! I don't think the Tories would need much convincing to allow torture, fretty. |
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Post by Big Lin on May 6, 2010 20:33:32 GMT
But the beauty of waterboarding is that it really isn't torture. It's just that the terrorist being interrogated thinks it's torture because that's what it feels like to him. [/color][/size][/quote] So, being held under water and threatened with drowing is not torture? Really? What an evil, backward Country you must come from. No wonder Christians are hated all over the World. What a bunch of backward people you Americans are.[/quote] RV, I'd appreciate it if you could express your righteous indignation with a little less volume and in a slightly less aggressive tone of voice, please. For what it's worth I am a Christian and I totally condemn ALL forms of torture, including waterboarding. Christians are NOT hated all over the world although many are because of the ignorant anti-Christian propaganda they are fed (just as many Muslims are because of the ignorant anti-Muslim propaganda they are fed). Intolerance is never a good basis for any sort of argument. Your comments to Anna were also not only personally insulting but also bordering on racism. To suggest that she comes from 'an evil, backward country' and that - by extension - ALL Americans, irrespective of their personal qualities as individuals, their political and religious persuasions, ALSO come from 'an evil, backward country' is just a silly and actually a RACIST remark. In any case, Anna is NOT an American but a German. (No doubt you'll call her a Nazi now I've told you that!) Come on, RV, you CAN'T condemn MILLIONS of people simply on the basis of their nationality or religion. Whatever happened to that rationality and scientific approach you used to talk about so much? Incidentally, to those who think waterboarding is no big deal, I suggest you try nearly drowning yourselves and see if you STILL don't consider it torture. |
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Post by beez0811 on May 6, 2010 21:50:23 GMT
At least they aren't doing full-fledged swirlies.
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Post by sadie1263 on May 7, 2010 0:36:23 GMT
I don't know what they think they ought to do to get the information off from people willing to do anything and kill anyone to achieve their aims..........I'm just asking.........if it was your loved ones and your country being ripped apart.....on the verge of being ripped apart......what would you take off the table??? Is just threatening them with it enough? I think torture can also get false information........heck I'd be willing to say just about anything to get them to stop also........so what do you do.........everyone wants to condemn it......it's barbaric.....its inhumane............but in a fight where they seem to only care that they kill the most amount of people....even children.........what do you do...........asking politely isn't going to do it............so what is going to work?
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on May 7, 2010 1:25:03 GMT
So, being held under water and threatened with drowing is not torture? Really?
What an evil, backward Country you must come from. No wonder
Christians are hated all over the World. What a bunch of backward people you Americans are.[/quote]
No RV, it's not torture. It feels like torture to the terrorist being interrogated. There is no real danger that he's going to drown. Waterboarding makes the terrorist think he's drowning when he really isn't in any danger of drowning. That's what makes it so outstanding for extracting information from scumbags.
There is nothing to argue about here. Waterboarding has achieved outstanding results and it has saved lives. That's what matters. Your pathetic left wing values are what don't matter.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on May 7, 2010 2:24:57 GMT
But the beauty of waterboarding is that it really isn't torture. It's just that the terrorist being interrogated thinks it's torture because that's what it feels like to him. [/color][/size][/quote] So, being held under water and threatened with drowing is not torture? Really? What an evil, backward Country you must come from. No wonder Christians are hated all over the World. What a bunch of backward people you Americans are.[/quote] You're quoting BushAdmirer's words as mine! But nevertheless waterboarding is not torture! The Al Qaida terrorists show us what real torture is, if they capture a US serviceman! |
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on May 7, 2010 2:48:43 GMT
Even in the Second World War they had sodium pentothal - the so called truth drug. Torture is a totally inefficient way of getting information because it has been shown again and again that people will say almost anything and incriminate almost anyone just for the pain to stop. It's also been shown by direct comparison that the information achieved by torture from intelligence services is LESS reliable, LESS valuable and LESS comprehensive than the information achieved by hard graft and using a few brain cells. Even apart from the moral issues, torture is a totally inefficient and counterproductive way of obtaining information. It also tends to STRENGTHEN the opposition to the regime or whatever being represented by the people doing the torturing. It's a lose-lose situation on every level!
How do you explain imprisoned US servicemen in the Korean war sucumbing to the "enhanced interrogation" of their interrogaters and not only betraying their comrades, but serving as communist spies after their release for years.
In a war where the Geneva convention applies or was applied i would agree with you. That's not the case here.
These Al Qaida criminals are just cowardly murderers with no principles and only a silly, warped belief that a bunch of virgins in heaven will have an orgy with them, if they murder innocent people and die.
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Post by beez0811 on May 7, 2010 3:10:53 GMT
Waterboarding might be harsh, but is probably a cakewalk compared what the enemy would do to our POWs.
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Post by sadie1263 on May 7, 2010 11:14:52 GMT
Anna....I'm so glad you brought up the promised virgins thing.......because.....if a person died a virgin.....don't they stay a virgin? So......isn't the guy in actuality being promised eternity with women he can't touch?  ? (Just a thought) |
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 11:33:26 GMT
It feels like torture to the terrorist being interrogated. Yes it just feels that water in being forced into their lungs. Not like the real thing at all. Next you will be telling us that the Napalm your murderers dropped on on people was not really on fire nor were the children being raped by our vermin really being raped, itr was all pretend. This is why yiour troops act like sub human cowards in warzones. The come from a morally backward culture with no moral compass. So, being held under water and threatened with drowing is not torture? Really? What an evil, backward Country you must come from. No wonder Christians are hated all over the World. What a bunch of backward people you Americans are. Waterboarding has achieved outstanding results and it has saved lives. .[/quote] Typical American lies. Given your news 'sources' deny Global Warming, Think Bush is not a complete halfwit, and Reagan was a giand among men and that the NHS has death panels, can you think of a single reason, I should even read your Right Wing claptrap? |
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 11:36:59 GMT
These Al Qaida criminals are just cowardly murderers with no principles You could say that about American troops as well. There is no bravery about holding someone under water threating to drown them. Cowards. |
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 11:38:23 GMT
Waterboarding might be harsh, but is probably a cakewalk compared what the enemy would do to our POWs. That does not make it right though, does it. Two wrongs don't make a right, does it? |
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? (Just a thought) 
Nov 14, 2024 22:18:24 GMT
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Nov 14, 2024 22:18:24 GMT
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biglinmarshall.proboards.com/thread/7917/bits-pieces-magazine-issue-2024
Nov 4, 2024 17:39:29 GMT
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biglinmarshall.proboards.com/thread/7917/bits-pieces-magazine-issue-2024
Nov 4, 2024 17:39:29 GMT
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yay! 
thanks
Nov 2, 2024 17:09:05 GMT
thanks
Nov 2, 2024 17:09:05 GMT
Oct 23, 2024 18:34:05 GMT