Thoughts

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 24, 2015 21:04:31 GMT blc said:

Jun 24, 2015 19:33:30 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Atheists do not believe in any God, so that is where you are wrong. I do not follow a false God, so you are wrong again. There is only one God and that is the one that I follow, the Creator of all things. I also listen to the Holy Spirit, the Voice of God.

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from saying that I follow a false God, because I definitely don't, so you are
telling a lie. You should allow others to make up their own
minds. I think you are behaving like a Two Bob Watch.

As Big Lin pointed out, your belief system isn't compatible with the Judeo/Christian God. I'll leave it at that and ask that you stop with the personal attacks.
My comments were about your beliefs, not you.

My dear Lady, you were telling a lie about me so that is indeed a personal attack. If there is only one Creator it stands to reason that we are following the same God. We in ECKANKAR just see God in a different light.

God is Spirit and therefore does not
possess a physical body. There is the physical dimension and there is the spiritual dimension, and when you can get your head around that, then we will be on the same wavelength.

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 24, 2015 21:23:17 GMT interestedbob said:

Jun 24, 2015 19:42:30 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Men an tol, How is it possible to force someone's belief on anyone in this day and age.?

Perhaps by doing what you do, chris. That is, constantly and frequently stating your beliefs as facts, with no evidence, and criticising anyone who doesn't accept them.

For example-

I do not follow a false God, so you are wrong again. There is only one God and that is the one that I follow, the Creator of all things. I also listen to the Holy Spirit, the Voice of God.

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from saying that I follow a false God, because I definitely don't, so you
are
telling a lie. You should allow others to make up their own
minds. I think you are behaving like a Two Bob Watch.

I don't doubt that you genuinely believe that you are correct, but that doesn't mean your beliefs are facts that must be accepted by everyone else. Nobody can prove that God exists, and nobody can prove that God does not exist, so neither point of view can be regarded as factually correct. You therefore have no more right to call someone a liar because they say your God is false than they have to claim your God is false in the first place. The simple fact is, there is no way of knowing for sure, either way. You can only believe what you think is true.

Maybe you should follow your own advice, given in the post I quoted there, that is, you should allow others to make up their own minds. The way you constantly push your particular belief system on others is in fact in direct contravention of the guidance given by ECKANKAR, as you should know if you have ever read the FAQ page on ECKANKAR's web site.

Is Eckankar a cult?

No.

The ECK teachings are based on compassion, respect, personal responsibility, and giving others freedom. It is against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on others or to hold anyone to a spiritual path.

Please note, before you start hurling hellfire and damnation at me, that I have NOT said your beliefs are wrong, or that your God does not exist, or in any way attacked any religion or lack of religion. I have simply answered your question in a logical way. Also, when the inevitable attack begins, could you please deal with the points I have made, instead of going off at a tangent and introducing other, irrelevant points that are not concerned with what I have said. Thank you.

Nice to meet up with you again Interested Bob, You are always very precise in what you have to say. I do not abuse people and I don't go off in a tangent, but I don't see any good reason for BLC to warn someone that I am following a false God, I'm not warning anyone in a reciprocal manner.

All I am doing is answering posts with my point of view about the subject that is being discussed. In my opinion a person cannot be forced to believe anything that someone else says, but as an ECKist I am going to think like one and therefore my viewpoint will always be coloured by that fact. Have a nice day !!!

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 25, 2015 0:58:08 GMT @menantol said:

Jun 24, 2015 19:42:30 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Men an tol, How is it possible to force someone's belief on anyone in this day and age.?

Quite simple Chris. I come along and with a gun to your head I force you to kneel and tell you to accept my beliefs and follow all procedures I give you or you're dead.

No you may say go a head and shoot. So I change tactics and say I will tell you to accept my beliefs ten more times and each time you refuse I cut off a toe or a finger. You may be a strong individual and go through all ten always replying no. So I just cut off your head.

You can get a lot of converts that way.

You may say that you say 'yes' just to please me but in your heart of hearts you

don't really believe. But I really don't care as long as you follow the procedures and you'll be watched.

You are so funny Men an tol, but I guess you do have a point, there will always be someone in this world who wants to stand over another person by using force.

During World War2 the Jehova Witnesses who don't believe in killing were themselves killed for being a conscientious objector. But in this day and age you would think that it was time that we all came to our senses and leave everyone to think what they like as long as it is not harming another person.

I still say that it would be a good thing if the negative vices became part of the school curiculum so that children grow up knowing how to counteract their affect on human beings. Thanks for your input Men an tol.

[Deleted]

You probably have more belief in a positive future, but I believe that in general people will never change. Oh, there are always people who place principle, ethics, morals, responsibility to community and others very high, but not most people as they more than like do not even think about things in that context.

[blc]

Jun 25, 2015 1:58:44 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Jun 24, 2015 21:04:31 GMT blc said:

As Big Lin pointed out, your belief system isn't compatible with the Judeo/Christian God. I'll leave it at that and ask that you stop with the personal attacks.
My comments were about your beliefs, not you.

My dear Lady, you were telling a lie about me so that is indeed a personal attack. If there is only one Creator it stands to reason that we are following the same God. We in ECKANKAR just see God in a different light.

God is Spirit and therefore does not
possess a physical body. There is the physical dimension and there is the spiritual dimension, and when you can get your head around that, then we will be on the same wavelength.

For the third time. Is was about what you espouse not about you personally.

[Big Lin]

Can we please discuss the issues? I don't want to have to move this thread to Vendetta but I'm not happy about the way it's developing.

You know I'm about the most laid-back - some might say shambolic - forum owner around.

I hate having to put my foot down but I really must ask everyone to stop turning disagreements into some kind of personal conflict.

Now that I've got that out of the way let's remember two things, please.

1 Much of what has been offered as 'fact' and 'knowledge' in fact is only belief and opinion. You can't be dogmatic on the basis of belief and opinion (at least, not justifiably!)

2 I value disagreement and discussion very highly and I pride myself on NOT running my forum like a cult where ideas that don't fit the prevailing views can be put forward. I can think of at least three forums I belong to which are NOT like that and I find it incredibly irritating to be constantly told that dissident ideas are not welcome.

Now with freedom and toleration comes responsibility. I expect members to control themselves and NOT let their passions get out of hand. I am well aware that sometimes there are issues from other boards or a long history of conflict between certain individual members.

I've found that 9 times out of 10 on forum these things can be overcome by good will and a willingness to be more ready to tolerate differing opinions.

Like I said, I'm not happy with the direction this thread is taking. Please, everyone, take a time out and calm down or I'm afraid I'll have to move it to Vendetta.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation - I know you'll all do the right thing.

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 25, 2015 20:13:24 GMT Big Lin said:

Can we please discuss the issues? I don't want to have to move this thread to Vendetta but I'm not happy about the way it's developing.

You know I'm about the most laid-back - some might say shambolic - forum owner around.

I hate having to put my foot down but I really must ask everyone to stop turning disagreements into some kind of personal conflict.

Now that I've got that out of the way let's remember two things, please.

1 Much of what has been offered as 'fact' and 'knowledge' in fact is only belief and opinion. You can't be dogmatic on the basis of belief and opinion (at least, not justifiably!)

2 I value disagreement and discussion very highly and I pride myself on NOT running my forum like a cult where
ideas that don't fit the prevailing views can be put forward. I can think of at least three forums I belong to which are NOT like that and I find it incredibly irritating to be constantly told that dissident ideas are not welcome.

Now with freedom and toleration comes responsibility. I expect members to control themselves and NOT let their passions get out of hand. I am well aware that sometimes there are issues from other boards or a long history of conflict between certain individual members.

I've found that 9 times out of 10 on forum these things can be overcome by good will and a willingness to be more ready to tolerate differing opinions.

Like I said, I'm not happy with the direction this thread is taking. Please, everyone, take a time out and calm down or I'm afraid I'll have to move it to Vendetta.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation - I know you'll all do the right thing.

Hi Big Lin, I understand your position, that you are in charge of your own forum, so do what you think is necessary. I hold no animosity towards anyone, but I am going to be true to myself.

There are two realms the physical and the non physical, apparently there are no ECKists on this forum so I'm never going to find someone who understands the truth of what I am saying.

Being an ECKist, I can only see life from that point of view. I am not trying to convert anyone to my belief, but I am just answering posts in a truthfull way. If that fact is getting you down and causing dissension then I will bow
out.

[♫anna♫]

Jun 25, 2015 21:03:25 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Jun 25, 2015 20:13:24 GMT Big Lin said:

Can we please discuss the issues? I don't want to have to move this thread to Vendetta but I'm not happy about the way it's developing.

You know I'm about the most laid-back - some might say shambolic - forum owner around.

I hate having to put my foot down but I really must ask everyone to stop turning disagreements into some kind of personal conflict.

Now that I've got that out of the way let's remember two things, please.

1 Much of what has been offered as 'fact' and 'knowledge' in fact is only belief and opinion. You can't be dogmatic on the basis of belief and opinion (at least, not justifiably!)

2 I value disagreement and discussion very highly and I pride myself on NOT running my forum like a cult where
ideas that don't fit the prevailing views can be put forward. I can think of at least three forums I belong to which are NOT like that and I find it incredibly irritating to be constantly told that dissident ideas are not welcome.

Now with freedom and toleration comes responsibility. I expect members to control themselves and NOT let their passions get out of hand. I am well aware that sometimes there are issues from other boards or a long history of conflict between certain individual members.

I've found that 9 times out of 10 on forum these things can be overcome by good will and a willingness to be more ready to tolerate differing opinions.

Like I said, I'm not happy with the direction this thread is taking. Please, everyone, take a time out and calm down or I'm afraid I'll have to move it to Vendetta.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation - I know you'll all do the right thing.

Hi Big Lin, I understand your position, that you are in charge of your own forum, so do what you think is necessary. I hold no animosity towards anyone, but I am going to be true to myself.

There are two realms the physical and the non physical, apparently there are no ECKists on this forum so I'm never going to find someone who understands the truth of what I am saying.

Being an ECKist, I can only see life from that point of view. I am not trying to convert anyone to my belief, but I am just answering posts in a truthfull way. If that fact is getting you down and causing dissension then I will bow
out.

I certainly have no hostility towards Eckankar and was involved with it for at least a decade starting in my teenage years. What the Eckists call the sound and light of Eck could correspond to what Christians call the Holy Spirit. I don't believe God expects us to identify with a certain Church or a rigid orthodoxy. Of course some believers like a strict religion that goes by the straight and narrow. I wouldn't say they're wrong either. To each their own in their personal relationship with God. Christ said the true way was difficult and hard to find. The way to God is also individual and God reaches us in very different ways and guides us, if we let him.

The Eckists call Satan Kal Niranjan and he represents the illusions and temptations that bring us away from the light of truth and reality.

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 25, 2015 23:41:36 GMT ♫anna♫ said:

Jun 25, 2015 21:03:25 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Big Lin, I understand your position, that you are in charge of your own forum, so do what you think is necessary. I hold no animosity towards anyone, but I am going to be true to myself.

There are two realms the physical and the non physical, apparently there are no ECKists on this forum so I'm never going to find someone who understands the truth of what I am saying.

Being an ECKist, I can only see life from that point of view. I am not trying to convert anyone to my belief, but I am just answering posts in a truthfull way. If that fact is getting you down and causing dissension then I will bow
out.

I certainly have no hostility towards Eckankar and was involved with it for at least a decade starting in my teenage years. What the Eckists call the sound and light of Eck could correspond to what Christians call the Holy Spirit. I don't believe God expects us to identify with a certain Church or a rigid orthodoxy. Of course some believers like a strict religion that goes by the straight and narrow. I wouldn't say they're wrong either. To each their own in their personal relationship with God. Christ said the true way was difficult and hard to find. The way to God is also individual and God reaches us in very different ways and guides us, if we let him.

The Eckists call Satan Kal Niranjan and he represents the illusions and temptations that bring us away from the light of truth and reality.

Hi Anna, I agree with everything that you have said and the Light and Sound is indeed the two aspects of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit being the Voice of God. It was the Voice of God that spoke everything into being, " Let there be light and there was light "

Without light, everything dies. If things weren't the way that they are, we woudn't be able to communicate with each other through sound. So we do rely on both these aspects of the Holy Spirit

I do not think that BLC had the right to say that I am following a false God, when in reality there is only one Creator and that is who I follow, even Interested Bob pointed that out in his post that BLC was remiss in saying what she did. Thankyou for your post.

[♫anna♫]

Jun 26, 2015 1:51:13 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Jun 25, 2015 23:41:36 GMT ♫anna♫ said:

I certainly have no hostility towards Eckankar and was involved with it for at least a decade starting in my teenage years. What the Eckists call the sound and light of Eck could correspond to what Christians call the Holy Spirit. I don't believe God expects us to identify with a certain Church or a rigid orthodoxy. Of course some believers like a strict religion that goes by the straight and narrow. I wouldn't say they're wrong either. To each their own in their personal relationship with God. Christ said the true way was difficult and hard to find. The way to God is also individual and God reaches us in very different ways and guides us, if we let him.

The Eckists call Satan Kal Niranjan and he represents the illusions and temptations that bring us away from the light of truth and reality.

Hi Anna, I agree with everything that you have said and the Light and Sound is indeed the two aspects of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit being the Voice of God. It was the Voice of God that spoke everything into being, " Let there be light and there was light "

Without light, everything dies. If things weren't the way that they are, we woudn't be able to communicate with each other through sound. So we do rely on both these aspects of the Holy Spirit

I do not think that BLC had the right to say that I am following a false God, when in reality there is only one Creator and that is who I follow, even Interested Bob pointed that out in his post that BLC was remiss in saying what she did. Thankyou for your post.

BLC has her own personal relationship with God and maybe her path is different. It's like we're all chess pieces and God moves us differently. The best we can do is try to grow spiritually and our awareness and perspectives will expand. I'm not easy to offend so Atheists, the my way or no way people, etc. don't offend me.

Baraka ba shad!

[interestedbob]

Jun 26, 2015 1:51:13 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Jun 25, 2015 23:41:36 GMT ♫anna♫ said:

I certainly have no hostility towards Eckankar and was involved with it for at least a decade starting in my teenage years. What the Eckists call the sound and light of Eck could correspond to what Christians call the Holy Spirit. I don't believe God expects us to identify with a certain Church or a rigid orthodoxy. Of course some believers like a strict religion that goes by the straight and narrow. I wouldn't say they're wrong either. To each their own in their personal relationship with God. Christ said the true way was difficult and hard to find. The way to God is also individual and God reaches us in very different ways and guides us, if we let him.

The Eckists call Satan Kal Niranjan and he represents the illusions and temptations that bring us away from the light of truth and reality.

Hi Anna, I agree with everything that you have said and the Light and Sound is indeed the two aspects of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit being the Voice of God. It was the Voice of God that spoke everything into being, " Let there be light and there was light "

Without light, everything dies. If things weren't the way that they are, we woudn't be able to communicate with each other through sound. So we do rely on both these aspects of the Holy Spirit

I do not think that BLC had the right to say that I am following a false God, when in reality there is only one Creator and that is who I follow, even Interested Bob pointed that out in his post that BLC was remiss in saying what she did. Thankyou for your post.

I know I'm being picky yet again, chris, but that's not what I actually said. I was completely neutral regarding you and blc.

What I did say was -

Nobody can prove that God exists, and nobody can prove that God does not exist, so neither point of view can be regarded as factually correct. You therefore have no more right to call someone a liar because they say your God is false than they have to claim your God is false in the first place.

I know it looks like I'm splitting hairs, but as an agnostic^*, this is not a discussion in which I want to be taking sides.

^* Agnostic does not mean atheist. In my view, God may or may not exist, we can't prove it either way.

[Big Lin]

Jun 25, 2015 21:03:25 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Jun 25, 2015 20:13:24 GMT Big Lin said:

Can we please discuss the issues? I don't want to have to move this thread to Vendetta but I'm not happy about the way it's developing.

You know I'm about the most laid-back - some might say shambolic - forum owner around.

I hate having to put my foot down but I really must ask everyone to stop turning disagreements into some kind of personal conflict.

Now that I've got that out of the way let's remember two things, please.

1 Much of what has been offered as 'fact' and 'knowledge' in fact is only belief and opinion. You can't be dogmatic on the basis of belief and opinion (at least, not justifiably!)

2 I value disagreement and discussion very highly and I pride myself on NOT running my forum like a cult where
ideas that don't fit the prevailing views can be put forward. I can think of at least three forums I belong to which are NOT like that and I find it incredibly irritating to be constantly told that dissident ideas are not welcome.

Now with freedom and toleration comes responsibility. I expect members to control themselves and NOT let their passions get out of hand. I am well aware that sometimes there are issues from other boards or a long history of conflict between certain individual members.

I've found that 9 times out of 10 on forum these things can be overcome by good will and a willingness to be more ready to tolerate differing opinions.

Like I said, I'm not happy with the direction this thread is taking. Please, everyone, take a time out and calm down or I'm afraid I'll have to move it to Vendetta.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation - I know you'll all do the right thing.

Hi Big Lin, I understand your position, that you are in charge of your own forum, so do what you think is necessary. I hold no animosity towards anyone, but I am going to be true to myself.

There are two realms the physical and the non physical, apparently there are no ECKists on this forum so I'm never going to find someone who understands the truth of what I am saying.

Being an ECKist, I can only see life from that point of view. I am not trying to convert anyone to my belief, but I am just answering posts in a truthfull way. If that fact is getting you down and causing dissension then I will bow
out.

Chris, I have said repeatedly that I welcome different points of view.

I've also asked all members to discuss the issues and not the personalities.

And you keep making assertions that are NOT facts but just expressions of your personal beliefs.

That is deeply arrogant and shows a lack of respect towards other members.

I hold very strong opinions on many subjects but I'm honest enough to admit they are just opinions.

You have told quite a few people that because you have had private inner experiences that therefore you 'know' things that they don't.

Well, lots of people on here have had private inner experiences, including me and my husband. We don't claim on the basis of them that we 'know' things that other people don't.

What's needed is a bit more humility and a bit more tolerance.

We are a friendly bunch and our first instinct is always to be welcoming and tolerant to newcomers.

That's the core philosophy on the basis of which I set up this forum some years ago.

I'd seen too many forums where the opposite approach was taken and I hated it.

I try to be fair, tolerant, allow all kinds of views I find deeply offensive to be put forward on here.

Do you remember the holocaust denial thread? That was about as deeply and personally offensive to me as could be having lost relatives in the holocaust. But did I ban the thread or the poster? No.

So please try and remember that your beliefs are just that - beliefs.

What you believe is up to you; how you behave on here is largely up to you.

But unless members show some kind of personal responsibility at times - and I hate it - I'll have to step in and lock a thread or move it to Vendetta.

I don't want to have to do either of those things.

Remember, Chris, sometimes HOW you say things is as important as WHAT you say.

[♫anna♫]

I think everyone here would admit that their religious beliefs or non religious beliefs could not be proven in a court of law or by any other means.

[Deleted]

In my opinion Atheism has been incorrectly defined by the news media as they have selected spokes people who assert they are Atheists but in reality they are people (groups) with very specific agendas who assert that they are (also) Atheists because they view those who are theists (of whatever stripe) as against their agenda.

Atheists are (in my opinion) not some monolithic group, other than they do not accept anything as existing outside of our senses. Atheism is as philosophically based, ethical and moral as any theist philosophy and Atheists accept that they are very much a minority with little or even no political power. More over, we (all of us in the West) live in a sea of Theism.

More over, the idea of the separation of church and State has been misused by those with other agendas. All that our Constitution does is to make the point that there can be no State initiated and/or supported religion. It does not bar religious practices from the people or from those working within government. Any Atheists not committed to some other agenda realizes this reality.

Most people who are actual Atheists are very quiet about it as they fear (or at least are concerned of) reaction from theists. Most Atheists are not proselytizing to gain more converts to Atheism. In fact most Atheists do not believe that such conversion (to Atheism) is possible. More over, it is a reality that nearly everyone gets their ethics and morals from family and church, and that is not going to change. Many of us who are Atheists, do not want most people even to try to become Atheists and prefer that they become active within their selected religion.

[DAS (formerly BushAdmirer)]

Jun 26, 2015 13:46:50 GMT interestedbob said:

Jun 26, 2015 1:51:13 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Anna,

What I did say was -

Nobody can prove that God exists, and nobody can prove that God does not exist, so neither point of view can be regarded as factually correct. You therefore have no more right to call someone a liar because they say your God is false than they have to claim your God is false in the first place.

I know it looks like I'm splitting hairs, but as an agnostic^*, this is not a discussion in which I want to be taking sides.

^* Agnostic does not mean atheist. In my view, God may or may not exist, we can't prove it either way.

I'm an Agnostic as well. My view is that some things are simply unknowable given our present science and knowledge base. Some of the things that are currently unknowable, may become knowable in the future with technological advances.

Nobody really knows how the Earth came to be, or how life originated. We're like a fish trying to understand what it is like to climb Mount Everest. No matter how smart that fish is, he won't be able to comprehend Mount Everest. It is unknowable for him.

Man has always tried to fill in the blanks when encountering the unknowable. Early sailors didn't know the world is round, so they warned about sailing off the edge of the flat earth that they imagined. Religions have been invented to explain the unknowable since the earliest civilizations. The ancient Egyptians, the Mayas, the Incas, the Romans all invented their own religions to explain the unknowable.

Since most of us don't ever really want to die, almost all religions have invented an afterlife. Most of them try to convince us that the only way to access the afterlife is to buy into their particular beliefs. So, for example, Muslims believe that only Muslims who've accepted Allah are eligible to enter Paradise. Interesting concept since Islam wasn't invented until the seventh century. That would mean that there are no Greeks, no Romans, no Egyptians, or other 'non-believers' in Paradise.

I believe most organized religions in the world today are really business organizations whose real objective is to raise money to support a comfortable lifestyle for the clergy.

[toetapping]

[toetapping]

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 26, 2015 8:38:39 GMT ♫anna♫ said:

Jun 26, 2015 1:51:13 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Anna, I agree with everything that you have said and the Light and Sound is indeed the two aspects of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit being the Voice of God. It was the Voice of God that spoke everything into being, " Let there be light and there was light "

Without light, everything dies. If things weren't the way that they are, we woudn't be able to communicate with each other through sound. So we do rely on both these aspects of the Holy Spirit

I do not think that BLC had the right to say that I am following a false God, when in reality there is only one Creator and that is who I follow, even Interested Bob pointed that out in his post
that BLC was remiss in saying what she did. Thankyou for your post.

BLC has her own personal relationship with God and maybe her path is different. It's like we're all chess pieces and God moves us differently. The best we can do is try to grow spiritually and our awareness and perspectives will expand. I'm not easy to offend so Atheists, the my way or no way people, etc. don't offend me.

Baraka ba shad!

Hi Anna, everything that you have said is ofcourse true. We are all following the path in life that we have earned, and therefore is exactly where we are meant to be. I understand that. No one takes anything away from
another. I appreciate your posts. May the Blessings be. With ECK love, Chris.

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 27, 2015 23:27:54 GMT toetapping said:

I have found that statement quite true Toe tapping.

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 27, 2015 0:32:12 GMT toetapping said:

That is what we all should be doing Toe tapping.

[blc]

Jun 28, 2015 13:43:14 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Jun 26, 2015 8:38:39 GMT ♫anna♫ said:

BLC has her own personal relationship with God and maybe her path is different. It's like we're all chess pieces and God moves us differently. The best we can do is try to grow spiritually and our awareness and perspectives will expand. I'm not easy to offend so Atheists, the my way or no way people, etc. don't offend me.

Baraka ba shad!

Hi Anna, everything that you have said is ofcourse true. We are all following the path in life that we have earned, and therefore is exactly where we are meant to be. I understand that. No one takes anything away from
another. I appreciate your posts. May the Blessings be. With ECK love, Chris.

We all are not. Some might be following a path they earned, but some of us do not believe that. I do not believe in predestination. I believe in free will.

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 28, 2015 18:08:01 GMT blc said:

Jun 28, 2015 13:43:14 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Anna, everything that you have said is ofcourse true. We are all following the path in life that we have earned, and therefore is exactly where we are meant to be. I understand that. No one takes anything away from
another. I appreciate your posts. May the Blessings be. With ECK love, Chris.

We all are not. Some might be following a path they earned, but some of us do not believe that. I do not believe in predestination. I believe in free will.

[br
Hi BLC, I hold no animosity against anyone, including you I do remember you going to the trouble of decorating the Xmas tree on Chelonian's forum just so I could save it in the photo album of my IPhone, so I would have no reason to dislike you.

But it seems we don't see eye to eye on some things. I respect everyone's belief, so I am not trying to convert anyone to my belief. Just letting people know what it is that I do believe so I'm not deliberately trying to upset anyone.

Freewill will always rule for all of us, but because my belief is different from any others on this forum or any forum for that matter. We are having difficulties because of that

I am an ECKist so I'm always going to give my viewpoint coloured by what I believe, that is inevitable. As I believe in reincarnation it seems that people are being upset at the mere mention of the word, but to explain certain
things I have to also mention reincarnation.

[blc]

Jun 29, 2015 7:03:25 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Jun 28, 2015 18:08:01 GMT blc said:

We all are not. Some might be following a path they earned, but some of us do not believe that. I do not believe in predestination. I believe in free will.

[br
Hi BLC, I hold no animosity against anyone, including you I do remember you going to the trouble of decorating the Xmas tree on Chelonian's forum just so I could save it in the photo album of my IPhone, so I would have no reason to dislike you.

But it seems we don't see eye to eye on some things. I respect everyone's belief, so I am not trying to convert anyone to my belief. Just letting people know what it is that I do believe so I'm not deliberately trying to upset anyone.

Freewill will always rule for all of us, but because my belief is different from any others on this forum or any forum for that matter. We are having difficulties because of that

I am an ECKist so I'm always going to give my viewpoint coloured by what I believe, that is inevitable. As I believe in reincarnation it seems that people are being upset at the mere mention of the word, but to explain certain
things I have to also mention reincarnation.

Right, you mention something that can NOT be proved to try and explain the unprovable!

The rest of us are posting what we believe, in response to what you post. If you are talking about YOU, then don't say ALL.

[Scottish Lassie]

Jun 29, 2015 9:06:15 GMT blc said:

Jun 29, 2015 7:03:25 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

[br
Hi BLC, I hold no animosity against anyone, including you I do remember you going to the trouble of decorating the Xmas tree on Chelonian's forum just so I could save it in the photo album of my IPhone, so I would have no reason to dislike you.

But it seems we don't see eye to eye on some things. I respect everyone's belief, so I am not trying to convert anyone to my belief. Just letting people know what it is that I do believe so I'm not deliberately trying to upset anyone.

Freewill will always rule for all of us, but because my belief is different from any others on this forum or any forum for that matter. We are having
difficulties because of that

I am an ECKist so I'm always going to give my viewpoint coloured by what I believe, that is inevitable. As I believe in reincarnation it seems that people are being upset at the mere mention of the word, but to explain certain
things I have to also mention reincarnation.

Right, you mention something that can NOT be proved to try and explain the unprovable!

The rest of us are posting what we believe, in response to what you post. If you are talking about YOU, then don't say ALL.

Hi BLC, every person has been given the freedom of choice, that's what freewill is. Just because I and others believe in Reincarnation that doesn't mean to say that there is no freewill. There is freedom of choice in every incarnation.

What you think is predestination is just the Karma that we all accrue because of prior free choices that were put into action and hasn't been resolved, like I have said before, You reap what you sow.

I will not be answering any more posts to do with
ECKANKAR because apparentlly too many people are
getting upset and that was not what I expected to happen when I started discussing the thread on Religion.
When I am talking about mysef and I use the term all, it includes all ECKists.we believe the same.

[Deleted]

Chris, you may not mean to do so, but you certainly give the appearance of taking disagreement with your comments as being upset. Others can speak for themselves but I cannot get upset about something I do not believe to be true.

I do find it disappointing when individuals who profess to enter into dialog are really only regurgitating a point of view with no interest in what others are saying. Certainly, if you believe in something and wish to promote it do so, but not under the dialog of give and take when it is really no more than stating memorized cannon.

That you do believe in the words of your leaders is fine and it is understandable that you cannot believe that anything else may be valid. That you accept only the words of the leaders of your group such as Paul Twitchell, Darwin Gross, and Harold Klemp is also understandable. For example, Paul Twitchell declared that “ . . . Eck is the highest of all paths to God. … there is no other way to gain spiritual enlightenment." He sweepingly pronounces that "belief in anything except the Eck is false. … ECKANKAR is the only direct path to God. … All other paths are only stepping stones into the Astral plane. … belief in anything except the Eck is false … it is not possible to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven except through the teachings of ECKANKAR. . . "

You believing that such pronouncements are real and truthful is fine, but to then assume “ . . . too many people are getting upset and that was not what I expected to happen when I started discussing the thread on Religion. . . . “ is not logical. You are saying that descent is not acceptable and that disagreement is getting upset and that is not true. That dear Chris makes your position less than credible.