♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 23, 2009 14:34:05 GMT
www.news4jax.com/news/19256365/detail.html QUOTE: Court Asked To Ban 'Angels' Song In School Parents Request Another Injunction Against St. Johns School POSTED: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 ST. JOHNS COUNTY, Fla. -- The parents of two third-graders at the Webster School in St. Augustine who are suing St. Johns County Schools over a song sung in class have filed another request for injunction against the school for a different song. Last month, the parents filed a lawsuit and went to court over the "In God We Still Trust," claiming the song violates their children's religious rights. As a result, U.S. District Judge Schlesinger issued a preliminary injunction blocking the St. Johns County Schools from having students at Webster School rehearse "In God We Still Trust." Now, the song "Chatter with the Angels" has prompted the parents to go back to federal court asking that the song be banned from the school. St. Johns County School officials however pointed that "Chatter with the Angels" is included in a state-adopted music textbook.
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Post by alanseago on Apr 23, 2009 16:57:41 GMT
Here in France, state and religion are strictly seperated, therefore there is no religious teaching in state schools. Faith schools are fee-paying or supported by a church or charity. My three children went through state school, lycée and university without a single prayer or hymn. They seem to have survived quite painlessly.
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Post by motorist on Apr 23, 2009 17:18:59 GMT
Here in Finland, there are no Faith schools allowed. State schools only have religion in the form of a philosophical unit. If there are enough of a religion to warrant, say, a Christian or Jewish teacher, then there will be a version of that unit couched in their terms by a teacher who knows the subject. Non-religious people get a non-religious equivalent called "Life Skills"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 17:55:26 GMT
Does anyone remember the wonderful TV series "The Choir" - last summer I think. A young musician went into a fairly non-musical secondary school and recruited a choir for a competition. One of the chorister students was a Jehovah's Witness who refused to sing one of his choices on religious grounds. From memory it was a folk song about fairies.
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Post by Liberator on Apr 23, 2009 21:57:53 GMT
This sounds quite right. Even believers should question promotion of one particular sectarian belief that happens to include angels in its particular setting. They should remember that when the nation was founded, all documentation refered merely to Providence. The really clever Christian touch (which as far as I'm concerned undermined the whole meaning of the thing) was to turn the description of the god into a personal name God.
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Apr 23, 2009 22:47:10 GMT
Some people are born whiners. Leave hymns alone, they do no harm and I cannot think of one single case in the history of the planet where somebody has been indoctrinated into any religion via singing a hymn. As an atheist, I find the actions and constant whiney-ass attitudes of atheists tiring and bloody annoying. I wish they'd all shove off to be honest. AH
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Post by june on Apr 23, 2009 22:54:08 GMT
Some people are born whiners. Leave hymns alone, they do no harm and I cannot think of one single case in the history of the planet where somebody has been indoctrinated into any religion via singing a hymn. As an atheist, I find the actions and constant whiney-ass attitudes of atheists tiring and bloody annoying. I wish they'd all shove off to be honest. AH I too think there are bigger fish to fry....
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Post by Liberator on Apr 23, 2009 23:30:00 GMT
It's true there are bigger fish but there's also thin edge of the wedge that is 'significant' in the USA. I think a sense of God as a controlling influence over an orderly universe a very good idea - for children. Later on they may come to see God as a symbol for whatever the Universe 'is made of' and the emergent 'rules' by which it operates. What they don't need is the Heavenly Host or Demonic Hordes along with it. We can teach other religious myths as well but I don't think it's a good idea to encourage belief in the Fairies, Piskes, Kobolds, Nymphs, Dryads, Rashasas, Djinn, Efreets, Vanir, Lares et Penates, Baba Yagar and the rest of the otherworldy realm's vast number of denizens!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 24, 2009 4:57:40 GMT
As long as the children, who don't wish to sing along to religious songs aren't punished in any form i don't understand the fuss! Some children ( and adults ) don't like to sing anything and i would support their right to remain silent too!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2009 7:37:32 GMT
Some people are born whiners. Leave hymns alone, they do no harm and I cannot think of one single case in the history of the planet where somebody has been indoctrinated into any religion via singing a hymn. As an atheist, I find the actions and constant whiney-ass attitudes of atheists tiring and bloody annoying. I wish they'd all shove off to be honest. AH Tend to agree with you on that AH (this is getting a worrying habit). There were some stroppy kids at my school (including yours truly!) who were not Christians. We were told we didn't have to believe in God to sing a hymn , and having thought about it I realised this was quite true. Just as a child can sing a song about fairies or a teacher recite a poem about ghosts doesn't mean they believe in these things. If singing is part of the curriculum then children should be exected to sing, just as they are expected to exercise and try their hand at art - or whatever.
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Post by trubble on Apr 24, 2009 7:57:49 GMT
They go to school in St Augustine. They live in St John's. The country's motto is 'in God we trust'. Perhaps they should move.
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Post by Liberator on Apr 25, 2009 0:00:20 GMT
Tend to agree with you on that AH (this is getting a worrying habit). There were some stroppy kids at my school (including yours truly!) who were not Christians. We were told we didn't have to believe in God to sing a hymn , and having thought about it I realised this was quite true. Just as a child can sing a song about fairies or a teacher recite a poem about ghosts doesn't mean they believe in these things. If singing is part of the curriculum then children should be exected to sing, just as they are expected to exercise and try their hand at art - or whatever. I'd agree in theory, except that I have never heard of any 'secular' school encouraging pupils to sing Hebrew psalms or Sufi devotional songs, or Vedic hymns. So if their religious songs are innocently cultural without religios intent, why are they restricted to only the one religious tradition?
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 25, 2009 21:03:24 GMT
And how many Jewish or Muslim or Hindu schools sing Christian hymns?
If you go to a faith school, that's one thing; if you go to a state school, it's different.
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Post by Liberator on Apr 26, 2009 1:26:48 GMT
Exactly. If you go to a State school there'd be outcry if they favoured any religious tradition except Christian, yet there's some sort of outcry when secularists treat 'Christian' the same as others. About 30 years ago, I remember the co-ordinator of a pagan group I belonged to getting uptight because their children had been required to write a 'Christmas' essay in a Welsh State school and had done so from a Pagan perspective "Jesus is the Child of Promise, the Newborn Sun bringing us hope for the New Year" etc and been marked down for it (I was almost unigue infailing Scripture GCE O level by writing from a Buddhist viewpoint). They might not do that now because they are sensitive to other official religions, but they still do not support thinking independent of their allowed pigeon-holes
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Post by beth on Apr 26, 2009 19:59:51 GMT
When I was in elementary school (public school system), 'way back in the long ago 60s, a local protestant branch sent "missionaries" into the schools for the occasional assembly involving singing and flannel board presentations of bible stories. My parents, not belonging to that particular sect, found it very strange, but harmless. A few years ago, we discovered our daughter's second grade teacher quietly sending groups of 6 to 8 children out onto the playground where a friend of hers, a self-styled missionary, held court for 20 minutes or so, "teaching" them about the bible. Some of the parents (my husband included) spoke with the school administration and the practice stopped. The teacher's excuse was that she felt a "heavy burden" that directed her to find a way for all children to know about Christianity. I've seldom seen anything that suggests the practices and policies of public schools want to bring in religion, but individual teachers may feel their conscience directs them that way.
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Post by june on Apr 26, 2009 20:51:13 GMT
Part of me feels the reason this seems more of a problem now is that parents are all to willing to hand off the education of their children to the school - "it's not my responsibility to educate them - it's the school and the teachers"
When I was young (hey not that long ago!), my family also played a role in my education, not least how you interact with the wide world - you know tolerance and manners, those old fashioned concepts.
I am an atheist but we had religion (Christian) at school, but my parents raised me in such a way as to be able to make my own mind up about these things, without having to poo poo anyone who felt differently. they would never have felt the need to stop anyone telling me about their God because they knew we would discuss it at home or I would handle it in the way they had equipped me to do so.
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Post by Liberator on Apr 26, 2009 21:29:40 GMT
I've never seen the point of religious 'education' in schools. Leastwise, not as we were taught bible stories and the like. If emphasis were on ethics or a sense of something deeper than materiality then it might make some sense. Otherwise, I think RE and confirmation classes had a lot do do with my finding Church a wholly inadequate kind of unnecessary history By the time I was confirmed (about 12) I was up to my eyes in reading about Buddhism, which in essence made a lot more sense and did not require any supernatural beliefs (though it definitely does rule them out, just superfluous). If they want to teach religion, then they might concentrate on the parables and more intelligible Jesus Sayings. A morning assembly featuring some kind of ecumenical directed meditation and calming period might be a good idea. Call it communication with the divine if you want to.
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Post by beth on May 2, 2009 4:12:29 GMT
When my older daughter was in school (80s, 90s) I remember there was a "quiet time" once a day for silent prayer, contemplation, meditation, fantasy daydreams . . . whatever. I don't think they do that anymore.
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Post by Big Lin on May 2, 2009 23:19:29 GMT
There's nothing wrong with teaching religion in schools.
You don't have to go along with it.
At my school people could opt out of assembly if they were different religions or none.
That seems a fair compromise to me.
As for learning about religion in classes, well, why not? It doesn't mean indoctrination and actually you're more likely to get THAT problem in a faith school than in a state one.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2009 17:13:27 GMT
If children are not taught bible stories at school they can have no real understanding of much of our past and culture. The same goes for Greek and Roman mythology which is so often referenced in poetry and art.
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