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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Apr 11, 2009 0:42:40 GMT
Are all prison penpals deluded crazy people who have convinced themselves that one or more heinous murderers is innocent.
I think the answer is yes.
Do they need psychological counselling?
Of course they do. Though I'm not sure psychological counseling really helps crazy people.
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Post by mindy on Apr 11, 2009 1:40:00 GMT
Are all prison penpals deluded crazy people who have convinced themselves that one or more heinous murderers is innocent. I think the answer is yes. Do they need psychological counselling? Of course they do. Though I'm not sure psychological counseling really helps crazy people. Or they could just be really accepting, kind hearted and non-judgemental people. People who can actually look past the crime committed and still see a person still worthy of conversation.
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Post by Ben Lomond on Apr 11, 2009 18:07:16 GMT
Or are they people of low self esteem seeking attention?These people who profess love for a lifer, and even go through a form of marriage are to my mind in that category, and are being used by the inmate to bolster his own chances of parole. Pen pals are to a lesser extent similarly afflicted. An acquaintance of mine recently left his wife and children to shack up with a prostitute. He just knew that he could reform her, and that she was a "good girl at heart".
She wasn't of course. It lasted less than a year; after she had taken him for everything she could. He now firmly believes that leopards do NOT change their spots. A little late for him, but he is now a sadder but a wiser man.
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Post by chefmate on Apr 11, 2009 22:56:11 GMT
Are all prison penpals deluded crazy people who have convinced themselves that one or more heinous murderers is innocent. I think the answer is yes. Do they need psychological counselling? Of course they do. Though I'm not sure psychological counseling really helps crazy people. For the past three years I have had a relationship with a death row inmate at San Quentin State Prison; I am not crazy nor am I the typical penpal you will find at PTO or CCADP. I realize there are many inmates who are using women to feather their nests and that is a dirty shame but one can only be used if they allow it to be so. It is especially bad that the black inmates use the white women who come flocking to them; they call the snowbunnies and moneybags but will romance the damn fools so the inmate can get his quarterly, phone calls, canteen and visits. Please someone tell me why the majority of penpals, girlfriends and wives are European? What is the attraction to come traipsing across an ocean spending a fortune for the love of your life on death row? For each person who picks up a pen and writes an inmate there is an individual reason why....we cannot judge everyone the same but I would agree with you that for the most part, most of them are loons and have a very messed up view of the whole situation. See, you read about some of these people but many times I get to observe them in action. I can't speak for other states as I have no clue what transpires during visiting but I can tell you about San Quentin visiting and who I see and my observations. I don't feel I am crazy, need a psychiatrist, haven't low self esteem nor feel I cannot find a man or friend anywhere else.....this is a chosen path that I will follow until the journey with him is over. I see ladies who believe their husbands are innocent but I don't agree but remain silent as they will not listen anyway; I see mothers of sons who have comitted some vile acts yet I question if I could sit in that same chair and smile as they do knowing what my son did to another human being.
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Post by pumpkinette on Apr 12, 2009 15:59:22 GMT
Are all prison penpals deluded crazy people who have convinced themselves that one or more heinous murderers is innocent. I think the answer is yes. Do they need psychological counselling? Of course they do. Though I'm not sure psychological counseling really helps crazy people. What about those who are the family/friends of the murderers? At least 22% of murders in the US are inter-family, ie., family members who murder another family members. I'm 1 of these MVS who had a family member murder 2 other family members. My family member who murdered had to have a guardian as she was declared mentally incompetent by the courts. It was unthinkable for us to NOT have a family member be her guardian. Some of us did visit the murderer. I did so very few times. Her guardian saw her a lot. So, am wondering, what about those of us who are related to the murderer OR the murderer's friend from before the time of the murder?
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Post by trubble on Apr 12, 2009 16:03:37 GMT
Pumpkinette, I am sure that family members or old friends are not considered 'penpals'. Penpals are usually strangers writing to each other, pals by pen alone.
Family members who stick by each other through thick and thin are just doing the right thing.
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Post by trubble on Apr 12, 2009 16:06:25 GMT
Are all prison penpals deluded crazy people who have convinced themselves that one or more heinous murderers is innocent. I think the answer is yes. Do they need psychological counselling? Of course they do. Though I'm not sure psychological counseling really helps crazy people. I've wondered about this too. I think there's a certain percentage of penpals who reckon they might write a book and are looking for material. The others (and I have nothing to base this on, it's pure supposition on my part) must be missing something in their life and this provides it - perhaps it's a role (as carer for example) or a sense of drama or perhaps writing to a murderer is just another form of escapism.
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Post by trubble on Apr 12, 2009 16:07:35 GMT
Are all prison penpals deluded crazy people who have convinced themselves that one or more heinous murderers is innocent. I think the answer is yes. Do they need psychological counselling? Of course they do. Though I'm not sure psychological counseling really helps crazy people. Or they could just be really accepting, kind hearted and non-judgemental people. People who can actually look past the crime committed and still see a person still worthy of conversation. Of course - they absolutely could just be good hearts! But why choose to be good hearted to this particular group? There are so many more deserving people.
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Post by trubble on Apr 12, 2009 16:09:43 GMT
Or are they people of low self esteem seeking attention?These people who profess love for a lifer, and even go through a form of marriage are to my mind in that category, and are being used by the inmate to bolster his own chances of parole. Pen pals are to a lesser extent similarly afflicted. An acquaintance of mine recently left his wife and children to shack up with a prostitute. He just knew that he could reform her, and that she was a "good girl at heart". She wasn't of course. It lasted less than a year; after she had taken him for everything she could. He now firmly believes that leopards do NOT change their spots. A little late for him, but he is now a sadder but a wiser man. Wow, talk about learning the hard way but I guess it fulfilled something for him even if it didn't work out? Or low self esteem and seeking someone who might be even lower on the scale to make them feel they are not bottom of the pile....
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Post by trubble on Apr 12, 2009 16:12:43 GMT
Are all prison penpals deluded crazy people who have convinced themselves that one or more heinous murderers is innocent. I think the answer is yes. Do they need psychological counselling? Of course they do. Though I'm not sure psychological counseling really helps crazy people. For the past three years I have had a relationship with a death row inmate at San Quentin State Prison; I am not crazy nor am I the typical penpal you will find at PTO or CCADP. I realize there are many inmates who are using women to feather their nests and that is a dirty shame but one can only be used if they allow it to be so. It is especially bad that the black inmates use the white women who come flocking to them; they call the snowbunnies and moneybags but will romance the damn fools so the inmate can get his quarterly, phone calls, canteen and visits. Please someone tell me why the majority of penpals, girlfriends and wives are European? What is the attraction to come traipsing across an ocean spending a fortune for the love of your life on death row? For each person who picks up a pen and writes an inmate there is an individual reason why....we cannot judge everyone the same but I would agree with you that for the most part, most of them are loons and have a very messed up view of the whole situation. See, you read about some of these people but many times I get to observe them in action. I can't speak for other states as I have no clue what transpires during visiting but I can tell you about San Quentin visiting and who I see and my observations. I don't feel I am crazy, need a psychiatrist, haven't low self esteem nor feel I cannot find a man or friend anywhere else.....this is a chosen path that I will follow until the journey with him is over. I see ladies who believe their husbands are innocent but I don't agree but remain silent as they will not listen anyway; I see mothers of sons who have comitted some vile acts yet I question if I could sit in that same chair and smile as they do knowing what my son did to another human being. Well, obviously I don't know you but you don't come across as a crazy loon in the least so it's interesting to me that you have chosen this path. You don't say what it gives to you and I'm not asking because presumably that is a very private thing but may I ask this: Are you doing it because of what it gives to you rather than some version of christian love, do-good philosophy or is it a philanthropic act of pure giving? Please don't answer if you don't want to, I am just curious. Now that's interesting! I suppose because it's another culture and so we europeans can romanticise it. ??
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Post by mouse on Apr 12, 2009 22:25:38 GMT
[ For the past three years I have had a relationship with a death row inmate at San Quentin State Prison; why and did you know him before he was on death row
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 12, 2009 22:41:08 GMT
Mouse, I know Cheffie well enough to know that she is anything BUT what unkind people think of as being a 'scumpal' or 'thug hugger.'
I don't penpal myself though as someone who regularly visits prisoners in Britain (mainly young women and in all but one case non-violent offenders) I understand how hard it is to explain to people that you want to try to help them turn their lives around.
On Death Row it's different; the best they can hope for is commutation of their sentence to life.
I don't understand but I respect and admire people like Chefmate who are NOT attention-seekers, are NOT soft on crime, are NOT naive or stupid about criminals or anyone else, and who just (for whatever reason - and she's well capable of explaining that herself as one of the cleverest members we have on this board) choose to focus one part of their life on giving support to a death row inmate.
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Post by chefmate on Apr 13, 2009 4:16:19 GMT
[ For the past three years I have had a relationship with a death row inmate at San Quentin State Prison; why and did you know him before he was on death row I did not know him but that has not bearing on the matter. Many people who support mvs did not know them before the crime and therefore are interjecting themselves in the case same as I have been accused. The "why" was for many different reasons but none of them included romance or marriage nor was it for Christian charity or purposes of "saving" someone from the fires of hell.
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Post by chefmate on Apr 13, 2009 4:37:05 GMT
You don't say what it gives to you and I'm not asking because presumably that is a very private thing but may I ask this:
Are you doing it because of what it gives to you rather than some version of christian love, do-good philosophy or is it a philanthropic act of pure giving? It gives me a different perspective on life and freedom; I appreciate many of the simple things in life that we take for granted. It gives me a glimpse into the prison lifestyle and a different culture from what any of us will ever know in our society. I'm not there banging the Bible nor talking about God; I'm not there for any reasons other than getting to know someone serving a death sentence and being their friend in whatever capacity that takes. About six years ago my son was into drugs and alcohol and the local prison has a program with the lifers who have murdered to help the kids steer away from crime and I spent the day with these people earing their stories and as I left I realized there are some men who will never go home again and how sad that is that they made that choice and this was a way to pay back that day for the time the inmates took to help my son.
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Post by trubble on Apr 13, 2009 11:09:31 GMT
You don't say what it gives to you and I'm not asking because presumably that is a very private thing but may I ask this:
Are you doing it because of what it gives to you rather than some version of christian love, do-good philosophy or is it a philanthropic act of pure giving? It gives me a different perspective on life and freedom; I appreciate many of the simple things in life that we take for granted. It gives me a glimpse into the prison lifestyle and a different culture from what any of us will ever know in our society. I'm not there banging the Bible nor talking about God; I'm not there for any reasons other than getting to know someone serving a death sentence and being their friend in whatever capacity that takes. About six years ago my son was into drugs and alcohol and the local prison has a program with the lifers who have murdered to help the kids steer away from crime and I spent the day with these people earing their stories and as I left I realized there are some men who will never go home again and how sad that is that they made that choice and this was a way to pay back that day for the time the inmates took to help my son. Thanks for answering. You don't fit into the opening post description anyway! It's interesting to read a different perspective on the prison-penpal id. I think most people choose a cause or project through personal involvement even at a minor level, in the same was as any charity I've donated to has been something that touched my life already. The programme you mention sounds an excellent idea. Are there many of those types of programmes - hmm, what do you call it?- ''aversion mentorships''??
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Post by chefmate on Apr 13, 2009 12:28:53 GMT
You must be referring to the "Scared Straight" programs
The one thing that stood out in my mind is when we were walking on the yard with the inmates I noticied there were very few in my age group; they were all young men in the twenties and thirties just wasting their lives behind bars and the second thing I noticied was the racial grouping that the inmates do themselves........there was no mixing of the races on the yard and even the Mexicans have separate groups for themselves.
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Post by mouse on Apr 13, 2009 15:46:21 GMT
Mouse, I know Cheffie well enough to know that she is anything BUT what unkind people think of as being a 'scumpal' or 'thug hugger.' I don't penpal myself though as someone who regularly visits prisoners in Britain (mainly young women and in all but one case non-violent offenders) I understand how hard it is to explain to people that you want to try to help them turn their lives around. On Death Row it's different; the best they can hope for is commutation of their sentence to life. I don't understand but I respect and admire people like Chefmate who are NOT attention-seekers, are NOT soft on crime, are NOT naive or stupid about criminals or anyone else, and who just (for whatever reason - and she's well capable of explaining that herself as one of the cleverest members we have on this board) choose to focus one part of their life on giving support to a death row inmate. hi lin..actuslly i had made NO coment about chef..... what i posted was """why and did you know him before he was on death row """" as i was interested to know if chef had known him prior to internment and WHY as i really dont understand stand why any one would want to corespond with some one who had broken the laws of society unless a/one sympathised with the crime in a political/social/moral way eg if some one murdered madoff 2/ wanted an insight for a thesis/research etc 3/ was against the death sentence or life inprisonment/penal /law system.....[am talking about death row prisoners ]not the less serious criminals who should of course be helped to help them selves via learning the basics reading/child care etc a friend of mine was a magistrate and prison governor..and used also to visit prisoners on a one to one..teaching..reading..writing etc in that lack of education is what puts so many behind bars and at odds with society another friend was also a visitor her son-in-law is a judge so both sides of the coin were served so to speak
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Post by pumpkinette on May 16, 2009 17:33:41 GMT
Pumpkinette, I am sure that family members or old friends are not considered 'penpals'. Penpals are usually strangers writing to each other, pals by pen alone. Family members who stick by each other through thick and thin are just doing the right thing. I'm VERY glad to see you don't lump ALL the people who keep in touch with murderers together! 1 reason I point all this out is because I've seen over and over again (unfortunately) online AND off how too many people put the family of the murderer in the same category as those who choose to make contact and aren't related. People need to know that even those who ARE related don't all feel the same about their loved 1's. Some choose to stay in contact and some don't. I get very tired of ALL family/friends of murderers seen as the SAME as the murderer (my family alone disproves this) and/or not talked about at ALL (if there's any murderers who exist in a vacuum, that's news to me!) and the SAME with those who aren't related who choose to contact a murderer. Again, thanks for keeping an open mind with this issue. ;D
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Post by chefmate on May 17, 2009 12:41:17 GMT
It really boils down to the fact it is NO ONE'S business but just another way for people to harass a death row inmate.
Are women conned? Of course.......everyday but that is on them for allowing it. Women are conned in the free world far more times than by inmates if you really do the math.
I'm tired of families being castigated for maintaining contact with their loved one on death row; it is a personal choice and unless one is or has walked in those shoes, we will never understand all the motivating factors that keep people in touch with each other under the worst of circumstances.
I met an older couple yesterday visiting their son on death row; the father is also a minister but that is beside the point.......they love their son and should not be condemned for showing that love by maintaining communication and contact with him.
As to penpals, the reasons are as varied as sands on the beach as to why they contact the "worst of the worst"; we cannot understand as we don't walk in their shoes so why people have to fuss over it just shows me those people need more hobbies or activities in their lives to make up for poking their nose into someone else's activities that are not harming them.
I can somewhat understand the victim's family becoming upset but my take is the family is so hurt that they will striike at the inmate in any way to make them feel some sort of pain comparable to theirs and that isn't going to happen; nothing compares to the loss of a loved one and if the inmate feels remorse, that must be a horrible experience to live with and we will never understand because it is not our experience to understand but to accept.
I have met a few women and they all believe their men should be released and sent home because they are either innocent of a procedural error was done in trial; now, these men are mostly rapists and why they sit with the dregs and marry them I will never understand but it is not my place to stop it.......in the world, there are bigger fish to fry than if some bimbo is believing in a bullshyt story just to have someone love her and use her money.
I believe there are very very few true innocents on death row; there may have been errors in the trial which would reduce the sentence to lwop, but as to innocence, most of them are guilty in my belief because our system is not as messed up as some of these fools would have us believe.
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Post by Big Lin on May 21, 2009 15:51:45 GMT
I saw an apron in a shop yesterday that made me think of you, Chris.
It had a message on it saying:
'Don't mess with the Chef!'
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