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Post by toby on May 31, 2012 18:17:55 GMT
anna posted.;-What I witnessed in Paris during an evening stroll through the Trocadero park where hundreds of male homosexuals were huddled together in a mass group orgy left a lasting negative impression in me.
Toby comments.;- I used to work in Dusseldorf, in Immermannstrasse and around 200 meters away from the Office was a male Homosexuals hang-out and in the summer they put many tables and chairs out so the patrons could promenade and display their wares as it were. It seemed to ne that every patron must have had a half bottle or more of perfume, scent, aftershave, body lotion, bay rum, etc slathered over their bodies and in the evening sunshine it became like a stenching miasma you could almost cut with a knife. The trick was to take a deep breath and hold it whilst you negotiated the maze of tables and never look anybody in the eye lest they get the wrong idea.
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Post by jean on May 31, 2012 18:22:13 GMT
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Post by toby on May 31, 2012 18:22:29 GMT
Hunny posted.:-How do I know all this? Social work
Toby asks.:- You are not a Social Worker are you ?
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Post by toby on May 31, 2012 18:23:16 GMT
jean posted.:-Hold what?
Toby replies.:- It
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Post by lonewolf on May 31, 2012 18:28:52 GMT
no one looks down on homos because they are homos. normal people look down on them because they choose to engage in homo sex acts Normal people don’t look down on homosexuals because they choose to engage in homosexual acts; normal people don’t care what other consenting adults do behind closed doors. I once walked into a public restroom at San Francisco’s Ocean Beach and observed two male adults engaged in a homosexual act. I promptly turned around and walked to a nearby surf shop and called the police and had the two perverts arrested. However, had the two homosexuals been conducting their activities in private it would not have concerned me in the least.
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Post by Hunny on May 31, 2012 19:34:36 GMT
Hunny posted.:-How do I know all this? Social work Toby asks.:- You are not a Social Worker are you ? I have worked for years with alcoholics/addicts, the homeless. I have experience dealing with mental illness. And I also volunteer at The AIDS Project. I don't have a lot in life, but I have compassion. It's awful hard to meet an effeminate man, and then turn around and say he "chose" that. Not when they are feminine through and through. Knowledge changes ones views. It's only ignorance that breeds fear and so revulsion. I'm not suggesting you go get to know a few gays before you judge them. I'm just saying if you did, you might describe them in kinder terms.
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Post by mikemarshall on May 31, 2012 19:53:32 GMT
One cannot be 'part of the norm;' one either IS the norm or is NOT. Only if you think that 'the norm' can properly be identified in a very narrow way. But the range of sexual behaviour that can be considered 'normal' I suggest covers a much wider range than you're prepared to acknowledge. Jean, I have no wish to give offence to you or anyone else by my views on this subject. They spring to a considerable extent out of unpleasant personal experience but I feel that the question of what I mean by 'the norm' or 'normal' perhaps needs to be clarified. The phrase has essentially two meanings. One is purely factual and can be measured accurately through statistical data collection. That process leads inescapably to the conclusion that since same-sex sexuality is a minority activity it clearly CANNOT be the norm. The other is of course a psychological analysis which is of course far less precise. Essentially the point is that what I consider normal sexual behaviour is the engaging in consensual sexual activity between two adults of the opposite sex. From the point of view of purely biological considerations homosexuality and lesbianism are dead ends since by definition sexual acts of that nature cannot lead to pregnancy. I have known quite a few gay men and women in the course of my life and have noticed that there appear to be two distinct types among what one might loosely label the 'gay community.' I have found this to be as true of lesbians as it is of gay men though it is perhaps more immediately noticeable with men. Male homosexuals tend to be either what one might describe as 'feminine' or else absurdly macho (butch is the word generally used to describe such men). The second half caricatures masculine attitudes and behaviour almost to the point of parody. They are almost invariably promiscuous and sexually predatory. The first type tend to be gentle, quite funny at times but again they come across as exaggeratedly feminine as the butch types do with their masculine pose. Lesbians tend to be more subtle but even there I have seen evidently butch females with equally obviously 'feminine' females.' Whether or not one regards adopting the attitudes and behaviour of the opposite sex as being a sign of mental disorder is not a subject on which I would care to offer a pronouncement. However, as I said earlier I can understand a transsexual person who really does feel that they are trapped in the wrong body. Why someone who is perfectly well aware that they ARE men or women and yet CHOOSE to prefer to engage in sexual relations with their own sex is beyond me. I make no claims to any kind of dogmatic certainty on the subject. I am also well aware that a person's sexuality is only one aspect of who they are and it is not necessarily the most important thing about them.
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Post by mikemarshall on May 31, 2012 20:12:56 GMT
Hunny posted.:-How do I know all this? Social work Toby asks.:- You are not a Social Worker are you ? I have worked for years with alcoholics/addicts, the homeless. I have experience dealing with mental illness. And I also volunteer at The AIDS Project. I don't have a lot in life, but I have compassion. It's awful hard to meet an effeminate man, and then turn around and say he "chose" that. Not when they are feminine through and through. Knowledge changes ones views. It's only ignorance that breeds fear and so revulsion. I'm not suggesting you go get to know a few gays before you judge them. I'm just saying if you did, you might describe them in kinder terms. Hunny, you are clearly a kind and caring person. I can only speak from my own personal experience and I have found that around 70% of the gay men I have known have been 'butch' rather than feminine. I think that transsexuals and even transvestites seem to identify with the gentleness in women. So too do the 'feminine' type of homosexual. In the same way I have met lesbians who were hard as nails and as casually brutal as any gangster. I have also met others who were kind and caring and gentle. Again I repeat - all these people are (in my eyes at least) individuals. I do NOT 'judge' them as a group per se. It is simply their SEXUAL behaviour that disgusts me. The gay friend of mine who died of AIDS and whose funeral I attended was someone I had known since he was 18 years old and we stayed friends until his death at the age of 41. I knew he was gay; he knew how I felt about gay sex; but we remained firm friends until he died. He was a very kind, clever, caring man and a fine poet. He was also extremely good-looking and I often thought (though never said so to him) that it was a pity he could not settle down with a woman. There are many reasons why people feel strongly on this issue; mine are perhaps not typical. I do NOT come to it from a perspective of right-wing conformity or of being any kind of a religious believer. I am an agnostic and broadly speaking in the liberal humanist tradition. I am well aware that my attitude towards this subject is not perhaps politically correct but then I have always believed that people should make up their own minds rather than simply following fashion.
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Post by lonewolf on Jun 1, 2012 7:34:00 GMT
It is simply their SEXUAL behaviour that disgusts me. How is it that you're in a position to observe their sexual behavior and thus be disgusted by it?
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Post by jean on Jun 1, 2012 7:53:03 GMT
...I feel that the question of what I mean by 'the norm' or 'normal' perhaps needs to be clarified. The phrase has essentially two meanings. One is purely factual and can be measured accurately through statistical data collection. That process leads inescapably to the conclusion that since same-sex sexuality is a minority activity it clearly CANNOT be the norm. But by that purely statistical yardstick, other characteristics such as very high intelligence, or red hair, are not 'the norm' either - and yet we never discuss those characteristics in terms of their normality. Why is that? The terms normality, the norm are reserved in discussions like this for characteristics the speaker wishes to isolate, show disapproval of, maybe imply could only ever be a perverse and conscious choice.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 1, 2012 11:28:01 GMT
no one looks down on homos because they are homos. normal people look down on them because they choose to engage in homo sex acts Normal people don’t look down on homosexuals because they choose to engage in homosexual acts; normal people don’t care what other consenting adults do behind closed doors. I once walked into a public restroom at San Francisco’s Ocean Beach and observed two male adults engaged in a homosexual act. I promptly turned around and walked to a nearby surf shop and called the police and had the two perverts arrested. However, had the two homosexuals been conducting their activities in private it would not have concerned me in the least. you are hardly a normal person. nonetheless, NO ONE has said anything about what anyone does behind closed doors. as i said, it is their flaunting their perversions that creates the problem. normal people DO look down on such perversions. if you don't, oh well, as i said, you're not normal anyway
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 1, 2012 11:31:24 GMT
Hunny posted.:-How do I know all this? Social work Toby asks.:- You are not a Social Worker are you ? I have worked for years with alcoholics/addicts, the homeless. I have experience dealing with mental illness. And I also volunteer at The AIDS Project. I don't have a lot in life, but I have compassion. It's awful hard to meet an effeminate man, and then turn around and say he "chose" that. Not when they are feminine through and through. Knowledge changes ones views. It's only ignorance that breeds fear and so revulsion. I'm not suggesting you go get to know a few gays before you judge them. I'm just saying if you did, you might describe them in kinder terms. it don't work that way. i have known hundreds of homos. back when i was dealing drugs, i was dealing amyl nitrate, which is pretty much exclusively a homo drug, to the fools in san francisco. when i was back in los angeles, there were several hundred there that i provided. i KNOW what homos are.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 1, 2012 11:50:46 GMT
Oh c'mon Jumbo. Lighten up. We all know you have a secret crush on Dick Cheney :-) huh uh. that's a fool that i wouldn't stick even with YOURS
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 1, 2012 11:52:09 GMT
hardly. your refusal to accept reality will never change it Oh come now, Jumbo, be honest; it’s really my refusal to accept your bull sh.t as reality that irks you so. no, it's your lunatical thinking that, if you put enough honey on a cat turd, it is a jelly donut
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 1, 2012 11:58:25 GMT
damn hon, does that apply to EVERYTHING? what is NOT repulsive about a male with a big one stuck up his azz? i'd bet that i could show you hundreds, if not thousands, of websites that you would REALLY think are repulsive, but, thousands, and in some cases millions, of people do not. according to your criterion, there is NOTHING that is repulsive And the reason there are websites/pics or whatever is because someone does not find that thing repulsive. There are of course things that I would find repulsive........but again....to someone else it perhaps is not........ I'm not trying to say that it makes it wrong or right.......People kill each other in horrible and gruesome ways every day.....they believe in what they did.....we are repulsed....... It's a crazy world out there. there is a difference between being repulsed because you don't like something, and being repulsed because it is inherently wrong. some people actually are repulsed by normal oral sex, because they don't care for it. normal people are repulsed by male homos, because its inherently wrong.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 1, 2012 12:00:52 GMT
anna posted.;-What I witnessed in Paris during an evening stroll through the Trocadero park where hundreds of male homosexuals were huddled together in a mass group orgy left a lasting negative impression in me. Toby comments.;- I used to work in Dusseldorf, in Immermannstrasse and around 200 meters away from the Office was a male Homosexuals hang-out and in the summer they put many tables and chairs out so the patrons could promenade and display their wares as it were. It seemed to ne that every patron must have had a half bottle or more of perfume, scent, aftershave, body lotion, bay rum, etc slathered over their bodies and in the evening sunshine it became like a stenching miasma you could almost cut with a knife. The trick was to take a deep breath and hold it whilst you negotiated the maze of tables and never look anybody in the eye lest they get the wrong idea. all that is just regular male homo activity. that is what most of them do. go into virtually any public restroom in san francisco, and you will find one wanting to suck
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 1, 2012 12:02:58 GMT
It is simply their SEXUAL behaviour that disgusts me. How is it that you're in a position to observe their sexual behavior and thus be disgusted by it? of all the stupid things that you have ever said, that has to go down as the dumbest. NO ONE ever said that they observed any sexual behavior. damn, you're daft
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 1, 2012 12:06:43 GMT
...I feel that the question of what I mean by 'the norm' or 'normal' perhaps needs to be clarified. The phrase has essentially two meanings. One is purely factual and can be measured accurately through statistical data collection. That process leads inescapably to the conclusion that since same-sex sexuality is a minority activity it clearly CANNOT be the norm. But by that purely statistical yardstick, other characteristics such as very high intelligence, or red hair, are not 'the norm' either - and yet we never discuss those characteristics in terms of their normality. Why is that? The terms normality, the norm are reserved in discussions like this for characteristics the speaker wishes to isolate, show disapproval of, maybe imply could only ever be a perverse and conscious choice. of course, in that, you are right. of course, the simple FACT is that normal simply means what normal people do, as in 90% of the people engaging in purely normal sex. normality is of course used in discussions like this for the purpose of isolating the abnormal. noting that in this case, the subject IS about a conscious choice, perverse is NOT an implication, but a statement of fact
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Post by Synonym on Jun 1, 2012 13:26:13 GMT
perverse is NOT an implication, but a statement of fact Perverse is a pejorative and like all pejoratives it is not a purely factual word, it also incorporates the negative value judgment of the user.
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Post by Synonym on Jun 1, 2012 13:36:41 GMT
Yes, as it is not a chosen sexual preference. That is nothing more than an opinion and one which I find frankly incredible. If a person could change their sexual preferences then homosexuals and paedophiles throughout the ages would have simply chosen to become heterosexual and save themselves a ton of aggravation. Same as if celibacy or just simply being childless by choice became the norm: the world population would decrease. But they are not very likely to nor is homosexuality ever likely to exceed the small percentage of the population that it currently occupies. Same as when heterosexuals use the services of other people. It sounds more like you object to sperm banks and surrogate pregnancies than homosexual procreating per se
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