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Post by mikemarshall on May 30, 2012 23:39:48 GMT
Have you reason to believe that homosexuality will become a majority orientation? To be frank, you don't have to be Dark Green to think that a reduction in world population by contented choice of a non-reproductive relationship would be the kindest answer to the over population we currently must tackle. Our other choices are much more draconian -- one-child policies, for example. Part of the norm. A minority of homosexual people within a majority of heterosexual people IS a norm. Ah, the old neo-Malthusian position. Well, I take the view that the increase in world population is NOT a problem in itself. The PROBLEM is that the RESOURCES of the world are not distributed in an equitable fashion. It is absurd and obscene that people die of starvation where there is already far MORE than enough food for everyone to be fed adequately. This is one of the many negative aspects of the culture in greed in which we live. Many years ago I read a book by an Irish writer called Eimar O'Duffy (no, NOT the same as the Blueshirt leader) called 'Life and Money.' It struck me as one of the few books on politics and economics that was actually written from a position of common sense and reality rather than abstract dogmas. He identified the position you have advocated by the name of 'Procrusteanism' after the old Greek myth whereby Procrustes forced his guests to lie on his bed and if they were too short he stretched their legs till they fitted (and killed them in the process) or if they were too long he cut their legs off (and also killed them in the process). The trouble is that the other position he also attacked was one that he gave the entirely appropriate name of Sisyphism (after the Greek myth about Sisyphus endlessly rolling a stone up and down a hill)> In essence, the neo-Malthusians, greens and global capitalists adopt the Procrustean approach; the socialists, antiglobalisers and liberals tend to adopt the Sisyphist one. Neither works nor ever can work. IMO.
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♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
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Post by ♫anna♫ on May 31, 2012 4:19:12 GMT
Dearest Mike, I have a tight schedule til Sunday, but I'll get back to your post then!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on May 31, 2012 4:27:42 GMT
Homosexuality raises different issues. For example, can you imagine a situation where a black teenager has to work up the courage to tell his parents that he is black? Knowing that his dad hates blacks? Even if he does feel strong enough to face them: ''Mum, Dad, I've something to tell you. I'm black" and even if his Mum stops crying and his Dad calms down they might decide it's better not to tell Auntie Oprah cos, you know, she just couldn't handle it.... Dearest Trubble, With all due respect I accept your point to some extent. Still Black families do struggle statistically more with single parent issues and other difficult family issues. I really fine the position of Blacks on average in the USA, much less desirable than the position of homosexuals in many respects. Still the suicide rate among Black is quite low and the suicide rate among homosexuals is quite high!
I wouldn't have any inhibitions about giving a Lesbian girl a big hug if I liked here. I find the thought of being drawn irreversibly into that life style quite frightening. There is a form of imprintation at least that occurs if you go that way.
Everyone in Stuttgart whose "street wise" avoids the public rest rooms for both genders near the Planetarium because they are the magnet of male homosexuals strolling around the area looking for a ( new ) partner for the day for their "quickie". There is nothing like this among heterosexuals or female homosexuals. It must be terrible to have this kind of imprintation.
What I witnessed in Paris during an evening stroll through the Trocadero park where hundreds of male homosexuals were huddled together in a mass group orgy left a lasting negative impression in me.
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Post by jean on May 31, 2012 9:34:54 GMT
One cannot be 'part of the norm;' one either IS the norm or is NOT. Only if you think that 'the norm' can properly be identified in a very narrow way. But the range of sexual behaviour that can be considered 'normal' I suggest covers a much wider range than you're prepared to acknowledge.
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Post by jean on May 31, 2012 9:39:27 GMT
I am not sure if that helps to clarify my position more fully... Not really, but it does make nonsense of your attempts to define a 'norm' of sexual behaviour/orientation.
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Post by iamjumbo on May 31, 2012 11:17:23 GMT
Maybe it's just too disgusting to contemplate. I must admit that I find it so. I would have to fight to give any sort of esteem to a known paedophile because the chosen preference is always a victim and never consents and because it goes against all our natural instincts which are to protect a child. Of course, some esteem could be mustered for a paedophile who has never acted on his/her preferences and has found a successful method to prevent him/herself from acting. That esteem would be for the huge work and moral choice he/she has made. I apologise for continuing the conversation -- it's so depressing that discussions about homosexuality always manage to include paedophilia somewhere. Maybe it should be in another thread? ? why? the two are inseparable. there is no comparable heterosexual organization to nambla. the hierarchy of the catholic church who regularly engage in homo sex do so with young boys
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Post by iamjumbo on May 31, 2012 11:20:46 GMT
The statement was: "nor would I look upon a person's sexuality (leaving aside paedophiles) as being a sufficient reason for me to hold them in low esteem simply because of their sexual preferences." Holding people in low esteem because of their behaviour is a different thing to holding them in low esteem due to their preferences. exactly. no one looks down on homos because they are homos. normal people look down on them because they choose to engage in homo sex acts
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Post by iamjumbo on May 31, 2012 11:44:25 GMT
But would you think it fair to ask a gay person to ''control'' their will to the extent that they weren't allowed to sleep with someone they fancied or were in love with? Even when the other person felt the same about them and no one else could be harmed by it? Of course you wouldn't, that's why you don't support laws that make it illegal. I understand the act of homosexual sex being disgusting to you, I think it's normal that we each have various sexual activities that we find repellant, but if you try not to think about the sex itself do you still find it disgusting? You clearly don't find the person themselves disgusting, you've said so very eloquently, but are you saying that being in love with someone is disgusting? I think you raise some interesting points and I apologise if (not for the first time) I have failed to express myself with sufficient clarity. To take your points in approximately reverse order. Of course I do not find being in love with someone disgusting. I am very much in love with my wife! And I have known three or four same-sex couples (three male, one female) where there clearly was genuine love between the couples and it really was for life (literally in the case of the lesbians as one of them died tragically young of cancer).. Now I have personal reasons for finding homosexual activity disgusting which I am not particularly willing to discuss on the open board. I DO consider anal intercourse disgusting and unnatural and I have never engaged in that with either my wife or any of my girlfriends before we became an item. Now in terms of relationships in general I can honestly say that I have NEVER slept with a girl that I did NOT have considerable feeling for. I might not have loved all my girlfriends (I did love three of them) but I felt very deeply fond of all of them. The whole idea of sex without feeling disgusts me whether it's promiscuous heterosexuals or promiscuous gays. In general gays APPEAR to be more prone to the quick amoral fuck although I am well aware that heterosexuals are just as capable of sex without feeling. I am not sure if that helps to clarify my position more fully. I certainly hope so but I sometimes find it difficult to express myself lucidly enough. you're close, but not quite. even if it were possible, which it obviously is not, for two males to "love" each other as a man loves a woman, these so called relationships are, and always would be, a minute number. April, 2010-- Today, with same-sex marriage being hotly debated, the promiscuous nature of gay relationships, especially those of gay men, is becoming more widely recognized. In 1948, Kinsey observed that long-term homosexual relationships were notably few. Now, more than fifty years later, long-term gay male relationships may be more common, but the fact remains that they are typically not monogamous. In one recent study of gay male couples, 41.3% had open sexual agreements with some conditions or restrictions, and 10% had open sexual agreements with no restrictions on sex with outside partners. One-fifth of participants (21.9%) reported breaking their agreement in the preceding 12 months, and 13.2% of the sample reported having unprotected anal intercourse in the preceding three months with an outside partner of unknown or discordant HIV-status (1). This study follows the classic research of McWhirter and Mattison, reported in The Male Couple (1984), which found that not a single male pair was able to maintain fidelity in their relationship for more than five years. Outside affairs, the researchers found, were not damaging to the relationship’s endurance, but were in fact essential to it. “The single most important factor that keeps couples together past the ten-year mark is the lack of possessiveness they feel,” says the authors (p. 256) This supposition would appear to be supported by a number of research studies: Few “gay” relationships last longer than two years, with many homosexual men reporting hundreds of lifetime partners. Source: Pollack, M. ” Male Homosexuality,” in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, ed. P. Aries and A.Bejin, pp. 40-61, cited by Joseph Nicolosi in Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality (Northvale, N.J., Jason Aronsons Inc., 1991), pp.124-25. 50% of homosexual men over the age of 30, and 75% of homosexual men over the age of forty, experienced no relationships that lasted more than one year. Source: M. T. Saghir and E. Robins, Male and Female Homosexuality: A Comprehensive Investigation (Baltimore: Williams Wilkins, 1973), pp. 56-57. In 1978, a study done by two homosexual doctors revealed staggering statistics. Of 685 homosexual men, 589 (83%) had 50+ partners in their lifetime, 497 (73%) had 100+, 394 (58%) had 250+, 284 (41%) had 500+, 182 exceeded 1000 partners, an astonishing 26%. And 79% noted that over half their sexual contacts were total strangers. Source: Bell, A.P. and Wienberg, M.S. ” Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women ” (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978.) Another large survey found that only 7 % of male homosexuals had been in a relationship that had lasted more than ten years. Source: K. Jay and A. Young, The Gay Report, (New York: Summit, 1979), pp. 339-40. Homosexual author Seymour Kleinberg: “The prodigiousness of sex really depends deeply on change, and promiscuity is the easiest kind of change for gay men.” Source: Seymour Klienberg, Alienated Affections (NY: St. Martin’s Press, 1980), p. 171. In a 6-month long daily sexual diary, gay men were averaging somewhere around 110 different sex partners per year. Source: Corey, L. and Holmes, K.K., ” Sexual transmission of Hepatitis A in homosexual men,” New England Journal of Medicine, 1980; Vol. 302, pp. 435-38. A 1981 study found that only 2% of homosexual could be classified as monogamous or even semi monogamous (having ten or fewer lifetime sexual partners). Source: Bell, A.P., Weinberg, M.S., Hammersmith, S.E., Sexual Preference, 1981, pp.308-9. Extreme promiscuity has in fact been a common occurrence among homosexual males for a long time. Back in 1982, homosexual author Dennis Altman even admitted: ” now there is a move toward claiming that this (promiscuity) is part of a different, perhaps even superior, way of managing sexual relationships… (t) he assumption that it is desirable to have frequent and varied sex partners is increasingly seen as a positive part of gay life style.” Source: Dennis Altman, ” The Homosexualization of America, The Americanization of the Homosexual, (NY: St. Martin’s Press, 1982) pp. 16-7. According to the American Psychological Association, after the AIDS epidemic the average number of male homosexual partners only dropped from 70 to 50 per year. Source: Sally Ann Stewart, ” AIDS Aftermath: Fewer Sex Partners among Gay Men,” USA Today, 21 November 1984. the simple FACT is that it is ONLY homo males who routinely troll public restrooms in parks, transportation centers, theaters, etc every day looking for homo sex.
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Post by iamjumbo on May 31, 2012 11:52:21 GMT
Their increased suicide rate is due to the stress of having to deal with people's attitudes towards them. That's why we should make every effort to accept them as the valuable human beings all wish to be accepted as. Suicide among LGBT youth From WikipediaResearchers have found that suicide among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender youth (LGBT) is comparatively higher than among the general population. LGBT teens and young adults have one of the highest rates of suicide attempts. According to some groups, this is linked to heterocentric cultures and institutionalised homophobia in some cases, including the use of LGBT people as a political wedge issue like in the contemporary efforts to halt legalising same-sex marriages. Depression and drug use among LGBT people have both been shown to increase significantly after new laws that discriminate against gay people are passed. Bullying of LGBT youth has been shown to be a contributing factor in many suicides, even if not all of the attacks have been specifically addressing sexuality or gender more... CONCLUSION: It's not their sexuality which is the problem. yes, it IS. the simple REALITY is that the suicide is because of their CHOICE to be a pervert, and then not wanting to accept responsibility for making that choice
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Post by iamjumbo on May 31, 2012 11:56:19 GMT
I may dislike homosexuality intensely but I would NOT make it against the law as it used to be and nor would I look upon a person's sexuality (leaving aside paedophiles) as being a sufficient reason for me to hold them in low esteem simply because of their sexual preferences. Why would you hold something a person has no control over against them? blacks have no choice in their skin color. homos DO have a choice between being normal or being a pervert
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Post by iamjumbo on May 31, 2012 12:00:09 GMT
Homosexuality raises different issues. For example, can you imagine a situation where a black teenager has to work up the courage to tell his parents that he is black? Knowing that his dad hates blacks? Even if he does feel strong enough to face them: ''Mum, Dad, I've something to tell you. I'm black" and even if his Mum stops crying and his Dad calms down they might decide it's better not to tell Auntie Oprah cos, you know, she just couldn't handle it.... i hope that you weren't injured in that terrible fall when that puny straw you were grasping broke. that is an INSANE attempt at analogy. duh! by the time the kid can talk, his parents would be fully aware of what color he is, unless they are blind, in which case his dad couldn't hate blacks since he would not be able to tell the difference not even close
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Post by iamjumbo on May 31, 2012 12:09:36 GMT
Not so ! the Bible does tell us that ,'man may not lie (fornicate), with man', ! so that's your hypotheses out of the window because that concept was promulgated by a Deity ! Sorry, Toby, but using a religious text from the bible in an attempt to validate your argument is not going to sell. hardly. your refusal to accept reality will never change it
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Post by iamjumbo on May 31, 2012 12:13:03 GMT
[quote author=toby board=newsforum thread=3468 post=47014 time=1338098444 Toby's comment.:- I would suggest that if you are unsure, it's better to first ask. How I perceive things is completely up to me. I know that it is just a perception....and doesn't mean that the perception is right or wrong for anyone else........which is really what this thread is all about. What you perceive to be repulsive, wrong...or whatever word you would like to use.......is not repulsive or wrong to others of us here. Your belief works for you.....mine works for me.[/quote] damn hon, does that apply to EVERYTHING? what is NOT repulsive about a male with a big one stuck up his azz? i'd bet that i could show you hundreds, if not thousands, of websites that you would REALLY think are repulsive, but, thousands, and in some cases millions, of people do not. according to your criterion, there is NOTHING that is repulsive
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Post by sadie1263 on May 31, 2012 16:15:46 GMT
damn hon, does that apply to EVERYTHING? what is NOT repulsive about a male with a big one stuck up his azz? i'd bet that i could show you hundreds, if not thousands, of websites that you would REALLY think are repulsive, but, thousands, and in some cases millions, of people do not. according to your criterion, there is NOTHING that is repulsive And the reason there are websites/pics or whatever is because someone does not find that thing repulsive. There are of course things that I would find repulsive........but again....to someone else it perhaps is not........ I'm not trying to say that it makes it wrong or right.......People kill each other in horrible and gruesome ways every day.....they believe in what they did.....we are repulsed....... It's a crazy world out there.
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Post by toby on May 31, 2012 17:11:07 GMT
sadie posted.:-I can't imagine why I would think that.........lol
Toby comments.:- I can't image why I would think that either !!
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on May 31, 2012 17:30:10 GMT
Oh c'mon Jumbo. Lighten up.
We all know you have a secret crush on Dick Cheney :-)
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Post by toby on May 31, 2012 17:33:37 GMT
Hunny posted.:-Their increased suicide rate is due to the stress of having to deal with people's attitudes towards them.
Toby comments.:- But surely if they kept their homosexualkity secret like they used to in the good old days, they would not have the stress. This fad of coming out of the closet is the reason, and it is for this reason I would recommend all non-outed homosexuals to keep in the closet.
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Post by Hunny on May 31, 2012 18:09:27 GMT
Alright. Let's clear up what homosexuality is then. All humans have both a feminine and masculine side. It's basic psychology. A heterosexual has a minor "other side". A homosexual obviously has a stronger amount of "other side". It's caused by the mother experiencing stress during pregnancy. If the stress is severe enough and happens at the right time, that stress can cause the fetus to miss out on some testosterone it was supposed to get, and so that fetus will turn out to be an effeminate male -a gay. When this happens even more strongly, the result is a transsexual. When it happens just a little, you get someone bi-, or "curious".
Point is it happens in degrees.
There are WAY more bisexuals -or people who've had a thought- in the world than will admit it!
There are very few people who are 100% hetero, though the usual thing is people won't admit it.
(Women are more likely to fess up to having had a thought or an experience at some point, simply because there is so much less stigma to two women getting together. Men, in fact, approve of that.
For guys, well unless they want to be ostracized, "don't tell" is the thing to do.
How do I know all this? Social work. So, it's good information, even if a few here will reject it.
Sexuality is a diverse thing. Homosexuality is but one of many naturally occurring twists. I think it's fine for people to do what they feel they have in them to do. And those who complain too loudly about it being bad often turn out to be just externalizing their own repression.
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Post by lonewolf on May 31, 2012 18:12:26 GMT
hardly. your refusal to accept reality will never change it Oh come now, Jumbo, be honest; it’s really my refusal to accept your bull sh.t as reality that irks you so.
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Post by Hunny on May 31, 2012 18:15:27 GMT
Oh c'mon Jumbo. Lighten up. We all know you have a secret crush on Dick Cheney :-)
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