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Post by mikemarshall on Jun 4, 2012 15:59:55 GMT
Lennon was...a fake (he put on his Scouse accent to try to pretend to be working class)... The rest may be true, but that bit isn't. Don't forget, I was there. His own father said that about John Lennon. |
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Post by mikemarshall on Jun 4, 2012 16:10:39 GMT
I have to say that this is one of the most appalling and nauseating songs I have ever had the misfortune to listen to. In the first place its melody is about on the same level as a pub song. Secondly, its lyrics are simultaneously insincere, hypocritical, patronising and nauseatingly twee. The idea of a multimillionaire like Lennon saying 'imagine no possessions' is on the same level of hypocrisy as when Himmler described the concentration camps in Germany as 'an act of care.' Lennon was a snob, a poseur, a fake (he put on his Scouse accent to try to pretend to be working class), and a vicious homophobe and anti-Semite (he once told Brian Epstein he was a 'queer Jew' for instance and he said it in a deliberately insulting and offensive way.) His political views were also a lot more right-wing than his admirers realise. He often expressed racist attitudes about blacks and Jews and he was also a strong supporter of police brutality towards demonstrators. One winter he organised a collection on behalf of the New York cops after they had been engaged in a particularly bad example of brutality against political activists. A loathsome man who was almost completely talent-free (I dislike McCartney almost as much and Harrison and Starr were the only Beatles towards whom I feel even a minute degree of affection.) Gee, you forgot to also add that he's a mass murderer who started the Chicago fire, and he smells weird, and is a 'disgusting' bisexual. What the hell is wrong with you? I can't believe you had the gall to post such garbage, aimed at my thoughts. You took something beautiful and pissed on it. In fact, of all the ASS HARD WORK I did writing today - and do each day - and this is the one answer I get? Tomorrow I'll find something better to do than waste my time posting where it isn't appreciated. It is hardly my fault if I responded to what you posted in a way that you did not appreciate. At no point have I made any personal criticisms of you. I have my own views on Lennon and his 'work' and I have as much right to say what I said as you do to take an opposite opinion. Over the last year I have rarely posted on message boards and was persuaded to return at the entreaties of my wife. If you are unable to accept that there will inevitably be disagreements on message boards (apart from those ones which are entirely motivated by hero-worship or by ideological fanaticism) and that simply because someone does not share your opinions in no way means that they are either horrible individuals or that they are attempting to engage in personal attacks. I can only speak for myself when I say that I do appreciate your recent valuable contributions to this forum. That does not mean that I have to agree with everything you say. You appear to be a passionate individual; I respect that and I am a very passionate man myself. However in this instance you appear to be attempting to exercise some kind of censorship process and suggesting that somehow I had no right to express my opinions. I do not take kindly to attempts to intimidate me into silence (others have tried it in the past) and that is exactly how your response came across to me - as an attempt to intimidate me and present me as some kind of appalling bully. If that is how you look upon me I cannot help it. All of us have perceptions of other people that are at times misguided. What I will say though is that I regard your response as a deliberate attempt to intimidate me into silence and that is wholly inappropriate behaviour. |
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Post by lonewolf on Jun 4, 2012 17:17:42 GMT
Well he did a pretty good job of fooling the world then didn't he? Only those who wanted to believe! ;D |
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Post by sadie1263 on Jun 4, 2012 18:59:41 GMT
Yes....he and Yoko didn't exactly give up all their goodies and live frugally, did they.
Think he was an interesting but very flawed character. I really had not heard of a lot of those things about him. Yikes!! Guess the press didn't always broadcast a lot of that. I have always been disappointed with how his first son was treated by him and Yoko.
But let me just publicly state.....if you say anything bad about Paul McCartney (other than wife #2 was an idiot and he should have known better or should have married me instead)........I'll come after you or hire the appropriate voodoo priestess for a nice curse on you.
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Post by sadie1263 on Jun 4, 2012 19:59:03 GMT
Hmmm.....looked thru Wikipedia and it said the following...
"In early 1974, Lennon was drinking heavily and his alcohol-fuelled antics with Harry Nilsson made headlines. Two widely publicised incidents occurred at The Troubadour club in March, the first when Lennon placed a menstruation "towel" on his forehead and scuffled with a waitress, and the second, two weeks later, when Lennon and Nilsson were ejected from the same club after heckling the Smothers Brothers."
Couple of things........who could heckle the Smothers Brothers......they were so adorable???
Sounds like alcohol was not Lennon's friend......but it rarely is to anyone.
I don't know.....it's hard to look at some of our hero's and see anything but perfection. It's easy to put some of these people from our youth on pedestals......let them represent ideals and innocence from a certain time.
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Post by jean on Jun 4, 2012 20:46:17 GMT
His own father said that about John Lennon. Well, he was talking nonsense, for whatever reason. He wasn't around much anyway, was he? Lennon went to an ordinary Grammar school, like George Harrison and Paul McCartney. There was nothing especially rarefied or middle-class about those places All the Beatles had identifiable local accents until they overlaid them with a sort of mid-Atlantic drawl. (I was there, remember.) |
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Post by mikemarshall on Jun 4, 2012 21:21:10 GMT
Uri Geller was a skilled professional stage magician. He later began to declare that he had paranormal powers and in particular the power to bend metal by the power of his mind.
A number of investigations into his alleged skills were conducted by scientists and other professional stage magicians showed how his tricks could easily be duplicated.
I have an open mind on most subjects (closed minds do nobody any favours least of all anyone who is sincerely interested in researching the truth) but to me Geller was simply an entertainer and what he did can be and has been done by stage magicians.
The limited investigation of his claims by genuine scientists also failed to provide any support for the notion that he actually possessed the power to bend metal or otherwise influence objects using the power of his mind.
If we regard Geller as an entertainer whose sales pitch was a pretence to be able to perform using paranormal powers I think that is probably a more accurate assessment of him than the simplistic assertion that he was either a fraud or a master of supernatural powers.
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Post by mikemarshall on Jun 4, 2012 22:10:52 GMT
Well he did a pretty good job of fooling the world then didn't he? Only those who wanted to believe! ;D Lonewolf, that is not an acceptable way to behave. Deyana is a very nice lady and it is quite unacceptable for you to express your disagreement with her in such a flagrantly personal manner. For what it is worth I do not take Geller's paranormal claims seriously and regard him as simply a gifted stage magician. That does not alter the fact that the way in which you expressed your opinion was not acceptable. I shall edit your post accordingly to reflect your ideas but minus the gratuitous personal abuse that accompanied them. Please be advised that we will not tolerate this type of behaviour. Perhaps you would care to re-read the rules of this board and in particular the section concerning our disciplinary procedures. I am sure that I can count upon your co-operation in this matter. Thank you. |
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Post by trubble on Jun 5, 2012 0:46:22 GMT
when Lennon placed a menstruation "towel" on his forehead and scuffled with a waitress Well, who hasn't done that?! Fuss about nothing. |
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Post by trubble on Jun 5, 2012 0:47:36 GMT
Indeed.  & We have the pictures to prove it.   |
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Post by sadie1263 on Jun 5, 2012 0:53:35 GMT
Is that you?
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Post by trubble on Jun 5, 2012 1:31:09 GMT
I'm going to post these lyrics again, and apologize for having copied them so wrong the first time. It seems important to me, to get them right, since they are some of the most meaningful words ever written. They say.. that all the fighting and judging which befouls the otherwise beautiful world is imagined by us. ..And Lennon offers us that we might want to imagine a world without imaginary differences to quabble over. It's up to us. _________________________________ Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try No hell below us, above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for, and no religions too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger, a brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one I'm a John Lennon fan & I like Imagine! (So sue me, Mike Marshall! ;D  ;D  ) I like the War Is Over (if you want it) poster. I even - shush, don't tell - kinda like the mad Yoko. I once had the most glorious dream, one of those type that are so real you experience intense details, right down to smells, and then the dream stays with you afterwards as if it were a real experience (a real bummer if the dream involved a fight with someone). In the dream, I was at a John Lennon concert. It was a relatively small gig, somewhere like the Cavern, and he was dressed in his combat look. I was right at the front and he looked right into my eyes while he sang. It was almost a religious experience. Dreams are handy, huh? And free!! When I went to see Paul McCartney, (in real life, not dream life this time) the ticket price was €75! Ridiculous! But sort of worth it, actually, for the ultimate Beatles Sing-a-long with a real Beatle. A lot has been said about his falling out with Lennon but he told a couple of stories that demonstrated the friendship they had had, and then he dedicated a set to him, and the crowd went wild with applause. Hunny, Mike's is just one opinion, and music can be very personal - it's difficult sometimes to read a scathing opinion about something that is close to your heart. It can feel like a personal attack - usually erroneously! Don't let a misunderstanding get you down or get in the way of contributing here. In the context of this thread, they were great lyrics to put up. Imagine is like a prayer in its simplicity, it's melody is almost chanting; an anti-prayer maybe? So what if someone doesn't like it? Different things work for different people. There's a meditation quality to the song and words, don't you think? Once you get it, you just get it! and then even hearing a few bars can bring you back to that state of mind like a trigger. It can feel pretty bad to be pulled out of that state all of a sudden, but you know how to get back. Just press play! |
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Post by trubble on Jun 5, 2012 1:32:34 GMT
I wish!!! I was hoping it was Jean. ;D |
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Post by lonewolf on Jun 5, 2012 1:34:32 GMT
Well he did a pretty good job of fooling the world then didn't he? Only those who wanted to believe! ;D Please note that I did not write what is in the quote box. Those are Mr. Marshall's words not mine. Editing out certain words that I have written is one thing and rewriting what I have written is quite another. Such practice is unacceptable to me. |
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Post by sadie1263 on Jun 5, 2012 3:20:53 GMT
I played the song for my mother one time and she cried. She thought it was a beautiful sentiment.
Have you ever heard the Blacked Eyed Peas song One Tribe? I love the idea behind that one also.
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Post by trubble on Jun 5, 2012 6:50:46 GMT
I'll have to listen! (I like ''Where is the Love?")
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Post by trubble on Jun 5, 2012 6:59:38 GMT
Oh dear, must be something in the stars this week.  Lonewolf...hope you come back. I am sure it can all be resolved. |
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Post by jean on Jun 5, 2012 8:15:05 GMT
I wish!!! I was hoping it was Jean. ;D It could have been my little sister, who used to sneak out from school to go to the Cavern at lunch time. But when I was at school, so were they - in Paul McCartney's case, just over the road from me, and by the time they were famous, I'd left home. Anyway I would never have behaved like that. But I knew plently of people from the same social milieu and I know how we all spoke. They say Lennon's formidable Aunt Mimi was a bit of a snob, but I bet even she coldn't have ensured that he spoke differently from everyone around him. |
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Post by sadie1263 on Jun 5, 2012 16:24:25 GMT
when Lennon placed a menstruation "towel" on his forehead and scuffled with a waitress Well, who hasn't done that?! Fuss about nothing. My bigger question.....is why was one laying around.....and how the heck did he keep it on his forehead......no wait.....no one answer that!!!! |
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Post by trubble on Jun 5, 2012 16:36:48 GMT
;D
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Post by Hunny on Jun 5, 2012 18:28:45 GMT
Uri Geller was a skilled professional stage magician. He later began to declare that he had paranormal powers and in particular the power to bend metal by the power of his mind. A number of investigations into his alleged skills were conducted by scientists and other professional stage magicians showed how his tricks could easily be duplicated. I have an open mind on most subjects (closed minds do nobody any favours least of all anyone who is sincerely interested in researching the truth) but to me Geller was simply an entertainer and what he did can be and has been done by stage magicians. The limited investigation of his claims by genuine scientists also failed to provide any support for the notion that he actually possessed the power to bend metal or otherwise influence objects using the power of his mind. If we regard Geller as an entertainer whose sales pitch was a pretence to be able to perform using paranormal powers I think that is probably a more accurate assessment of him than the simplistic assertion that he was either a fraud or a master of supernatural powers. It's true Deyana. Geller was a performer. However, don't give up the idea of mind over matter. What you think IS what becomes. There are scads of books you could read that explain that. I'd suggest Wayne Dyer 1 - The Power Of Intention and 2 - Manifest Your Destiny . These are books that teach that what you think of happens. That it is a power you have to use. I love listening to Dyer speak on PBS at Pledge Drive, he's inspiring because he does not offer a God to have to ask, he offers you your own power to create, simply by knowing what you need. It may sound a little like magic, but I'm a card-carrying atheist because i wont "believe in" things unless they're provable, yet I'm saying this functional spirituality he offers is reality. It's how we work. And it's all about developing your intuition. (He does back this up with science.) Dyer says think of it and it becomes, well, I tested that. I thought of some money, it came. So I thought of a bigger amount, it came. A couple times I could swear I kept a green light from changing just by needing it to with my mind. I've also gotten to where I can find where things are just by emptying my mind, and letting the hunch come where it is. And if there is danger just around a corner, I find I can sense that. Oh and if you need to get in touch with someone, think of them a lot; they'll sense it and call you! And here's an experiment you can do today: Sit in a crowd of people, pick someone at random and stare at the back of their head relentlessly. They'll get fidgety, then turn and look right at you. But how did they know?? Well, can you explain that without using the word "psychic"? And again, I'm a prove-it-to-me atheist, so I'm saying it isn't just kooky belief. There IS some "magic" to living. We DO have some power (remember i talked about intuition?) (it's about that, and also that we are connected to each other intuitively as well. You can create what Carl Jung called a "synchronicity" (google that! There's your backing science). So..I don't know if people can make objects move, but we can do a lot with intuition...so read! Develop your intuitive power! And enjoy ____________________________________________ @ Mike: I am sorry I came across the way I did to you yesterday. I had a talk with a couple people and well, it seems I took your opinion as a personal attack, and I shouldn't have. Thank you for that nice birthday wish you posted. That was a classy move, and it made my day nicer. I hope yours goes well too. ..Please always feel free to disagree with me. I don't really want to make you feel you shouldn't. (like what I wrote to Deyana here..most people think I'm full of it when i talk like this, and if you see it as nonsense too, fire away! I promise not to dent  |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 5, 2012 20:28:42 GMT
Uri Geller was a skilled professional stage magician. He later began to declare that he had paranormal powers and in particular the power to bend metal by the power of his mind. A number of investigations into his alleged skills were conducted by scientists and other professional stage magicians showed how his tricks could easily be duplicated. I have an open mind on most subjects (closed minds do nobody any favours least of all anyone who is sincerely interested in researching the truth) but to me Geller was simply an entertainer and what he did can be and has been done by stage magicians. The limited investigation of his claims by genuine scientists also failed to provide any support for the notion that he actually possessed the power to bend metal or otherwise influence objects using the power of his mind. If we regard Geller as an entertainer whose sales pitch was a pretence to be able to perform using paranormal powers I think that is probably a more accurate assessment of him than the simplistic assertion that he was either a fraud or a master of supernatural powers. It's true Deyana. Geller was a performer. However, don't give up the idea of mind over matter. What you think IS what becomes. There are scads of books you could read that explain that. I'd suggest Wayne Dyer 1 - The Power Of Intention and 2 - Manifest Your Destiny . These are books that teach that what you think of happens. That it is a power you have to use. I love listening to Dyer speak on PBS at Pledge Drive, he's inspiring because he does not offer a God to have to ask, he offers you your own power to create, simply by knowing what you need. It may sound a little like magic, but I'm a card-carrying atheist because i wont "believe in" things unless they're provable, yet I'm saying this functional spirituality he offers is reality. It's how we work. And it's all about developing your intuition. (He does back this up with science.) Dyer says think of it and it becomes, well, I tested that. I thought of some money, it came. So I thought of a bigger amount, it came. A couple times I could swear I kept a green light from changing just by needing it to with my mind. I've also gotten to where I can find where things are just by emptying my mind, and letting the hunch come where it is. And if there is danger just around a corner, I find I can sense that. Oh and if you need to get in touch with someone, think of them a lot; they'll sense it and call you! And here's an experiment you can do today: Sit in a crowd of people, pick someone at random and stare at the back of their head relentlessly. They'll get fidgety, then turn and look right at you. But how did they know?? Well, can you explain that without using the word "psychic"? And again, I'm a prove-it-to-me atheist, so I'm saying it isn't just kooky belief. There IS some "magic" to living. We DO have some power (remember i talked about intuition?) (it's about that, and also that we are connected to each other intuitively as well. You can create what Carl Jung called a "synchronicity" (google that! There's your backing science). So..I don't know if people can make objects move, but we can do a lot with intuition...so read! Develop your intuitive power! And enjoy ____________________________________________ @ Mike: I am sorry I came across the way I did to you yesterday. I had a talk with a couple people and well, it seems I took your opinion as a personal attack, and I shouldn't have. Thank you for that nice birthday wish you posted. That was a classy move, and it made my day nicer. I hope yours goes well too. ..Please always feel free to disagree with me. I don't really want to make you feel you shouldn't. (like what I wrote to Deyana here..most people think I'm full of it when i talk like this, and if you see it as nonsense too, fire away! I promise not to dent unfortunately, it is sad that you don't believe that the wind exists. no one has ever seen the wind. we know it exists though, because we see the results of the wind |
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Post by Hunny on Jun 5, 2012 20:43:27 GMT
It's true Deyana. Geller was a performer. However, don't give up the idea of mind over matter. What you think IS what becomes. There are scads of books you could read that explain that. I'd suggest Wayne Dyer 1 - The Power Of Intention and 2 - Manifest Your Destiny . These are books that teach that what you think of happens. That it is a power you have to use. I love listening to Dyer speak on PBS at Pledge Drive, he's inspiring because he does not offer a God to have to ask, he offers you your own power to create, simply by knowing what you need. It may sound a little like magic, but I'm a card-carrying atheist because i wont "believe in" things unless they're provable, yet I'm saying this functional spirituality he offers is reality. It's how we work. And it's all about developing your intuition. (He does back this up with science.) Dyer says think of it and it becomes, well, I tested that. I thought of some money, it came. So I thought of a bigger amount, it came. A couple times I could swear I kept a green light from changing just by needing it to with my mind. I've also gotten to where I can find where things are just by emptying my mind, and letting the hunch come where it is. And if there is danger just around a corner, I find I can sense that. Oh and if you need to get in touch with someone, think of them a lot; they'll sense it and call you! And here's an experiment you can do today: Sit in a crowd of people, pick someone at random and stare at the back of their head relentlessly. They'll get fidgety, then turn and look right at you. But how did they know?? Well, can you explain that without using the word "psychic"? And again, I'm a prove-it-to-me atheist, so I'm saying it isn't just kooky belief. There IS some "magic" to living. We DO have some power (remember i talked about intuition?) (it's about that, and also that we are connected to each other intuitively as well. You can create what Carl Jung called a "synchronicity" (google that! There's your backing science). So..I don't know if people can make objects move, but we can do a lot with intuition...so read! Develop your intuitive power! And enjoy ____________________________________________ @ Mike: I am sorry I came across the way I did to you yesterday. I had a talk with a couple people and well, it seems I took your opinion as a personal attack, and I shouldn't have. Thank you for that nice birthday wish you posted. That was a classy move, and it made my day nicer. I hope yours goes well too. ..Please always feel free to disagree with me. I don't really want to make you feel you shouldn't. (like what I wrote to Deyana here..most people think I'm full of it when i talk like this, and if you see it as nonsense too, fire away! I promise not to dent unfortunately, it is sad that you don't believe that the wind exists. no one has ever seen the wind. we know it exists though, because we see the results of the wind I used to go to meetings held -of all places *gasp*- in a church. There i heard it said often that people "tread innumerable paths to "God". I've always found it impossible to believe Christianity is real, or any organized religion for that matter, but I did learn to be spiritual there. I learned many valuable lessons about healing and helping others and being part of the whole... It changed me. At one point I even had what I was told was a "minor mystical experience". And in the end, oh I can't say i know there's no "god". To me the whole universe is "god"! So there is one already! But no, I just cant join a religion though. ...You can see what I'm saying though, right? I came a long way from abject atheism. I would now describe myself as "generically spiritual" lol! My hope is, if i should meet your "Father", He'll understand. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 20:45:15 GMT
Oh, lonewolf has gone? Sorry to hear that. I guess he might decide to come back at some point.... (Thanks for sticking up for me and the kind words though Mike . You are a gentleman ) Well if Uri Geller was a fake, I'd love to know his trick. It seems to me there is no conceivable way the metal in his hands would just bend before our eyes and with no one has much as touching it. (apart from him, but he never touched the part that was bending!). I do like the song 'imagine'. Any music ( or poetry or writings come to that), that make us think cannot be bad. I also like his 'War it over'. ( I wish). You know something else that always baffles me are - air waves. We can't see them but they are there and they do quite a bit work without us ever seeing or feeling them in any way. |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 5, 2012 20:54:00 GMT
I have to say that this is one of the most appalling and nauseating songs I have ever had the misfortune to listen to. In the first place its melody is about on the same level as a pub song. Secondly, its lyrics are simultaneously insincere, hypocritical, patronising and nauseatingly twee. The idea of a multimillionaire like Lennon saying 'imagine no possessions' is on the same level of hypocrisy as when Himmler described the concentration camps in Germany as 'an act of care.' Lennon was a snob, a poseur, a fake (he put on his Scouse accent to try to pretend to be working class), and a vicious homophobe and anti-Semite (he once told Brian Epstein he was a 'queer Jew' for instance and he said it in a deliberately insulting and offensive way.) His political views were also a lot more right-wing than his admirers realise. He often expressed racist attitudes about blacks and Jews and he was also a strong supporter of police brutality towards demonstrators. One winter he organised a collection on behalf of the New York cops after they had been engaged in a particularly bad example of brutality against political activists. A loathsome man who was almost completely talent-free (I dislike McCartney almost as much and Harrison and Starr were the only Beatles towards whom I feel even a minute degree of affection.) damn my man, what crawled up your panties? i was never overly fond of the beatles, although i was the first one in school to have a beatle's haircut, since i was a stones fan, but, i did like a lot of their songs. during my hippie days, imagine was the theme song, the utopian dream for a perfect world. it actually is a blueprint for a perfect world, IF there were no humans. anyone who has ever lived in a commune knows that it is not possible. however, to come down on the song with the anvil as well as the hammer is a bit over the top. unfortunately, hunny is a heavy duty idealist, and i think that she honestly believes the garbage. actually, i suppose that having any dream at all is better than reality i'm sure that you have your ducks in a row as far as lennon is concerned, or you wouldn't make the claims. however, his public persona was completely different than your descriptions, and that is what the world knew him by |
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