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Post by june on Jul 23, 2010 16:54:42 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-10739764The US Senate have invited Jack Straw and Kenny MacAskill to appear before them re: BP and the release of Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi. They have politely refused. Is anyone else waiting for the US to claim BP were sponsors of the 9/11 terrorist attack and that Bin Laden is CEO of BP? So, were the Scottish Parliament and ex Government members correct to say no, no, no?
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 23, 2010 22:44:37 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-10739764The US Senate have invited Jack Straw and Kenny MacAskill to appear before them re: BP and the release of Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi. They have politely refused. Is anyone else waiting for the US to claim BP were sponsors of the 9/11 terrorist attack and that Bin Laden is CEO of BP? So, were the Scottish Parliament and ex Government members correct to say no, no, no? I've been deliberately ignoring this board this past week or so because i'm so sick of the bigots. But this topic forced me back. Let me make this clear; I don't give a fuck whether English people or American politicians or the rest of the world thinks Kenny MacAskill was right or not. In our legal system (which is to say the Scottish legal system) we have this thing we do where we let people who are dying go home to die on compassionate grounds. Kenny MacAskill is a man of principle, dignity and precedent. He ignored the bullying calls of Hillary Clinton and the attempts to bully him by Tony Blair and his Newlabour friends and decided instead to go with the rule of law. Scots law. I am so very, very, very proud of him. As to the current attempts by those arseholes Obama and Cameron (and I've just gone from Obama-fan to Obama-hater in one swift move over this), they should try to rack their tiny brains and try to understand that it is our system, our law, and we do what is required from it. Basically they can fuck off. In the same week that the USA stupidly blustered about their support for an independent Kosovo (oh dear god, they will come to regret that particularly ignorant blustering) , I have totally lost all respect and love for Obama. I don't care what any of you who don't live in Scotland have to say about the release of the alleged Lockerbie bomber (yeah right, like he did it. Everyone knows it was the Syrians.) We stuck by our rules and did what our legal system required. It's our system. The rest of you can fuck off. (tbh, I'm maybe a bit drunk.)
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 23, 2010 22:46:16 GMT
P.S. Kenny has two words to say to the American senate. The second one is 'off'.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 23, 2010 23:01:21 GMT
P.P.S. The USA throwing its weight behind independence in Kosovo. Really, I mean really, do any of our American posters want to come online and explain to me what gives them the right to bully small nations like this?
How dare they deny Serbia the right to self-determination within its own boundaries?
Fuckers.
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 23, 2010 23:55:34 GMT
I think Kenny MacAskill must be a muslim.
Don't be too hard on Obama on this. He has an increasingly hostile media breathing down his neck, many of whom do not even consider him a 'rea'l American and more than a few think he is the anti christ, so he is playing to his populace. He is the President of a backward race of people with a backward culture who are too stupid to understand complex issues. A race of people who cannot get their head round the fact that British and English mean different things are unlikely to get the idea of our legal system. Don't blame obama for that. He has an IQ double most of the Nation and he has to dumb down to their level.
Obama's hatred of the 'British' stems from the treatment his grandfather found himself on the wrong side of. Given that I find the behaviour of the British empire pretty shamefull, I would be a complete hypocrite to condemn the son of one of its victims to have his vision clouded by that. So I could cut him some slack.
I agree with your view on Kenny by the way. Eck scores a hit too in my book. One of the milliband brothers called it 'completely wrong', but so far, he has failed to explain why. Perhaps he knows something about Scots law that the rest of us have forgotten?
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 23, 2010 23:56:49 GMT
Hey riot! Put away the buckie and get to your bed!!!!! Good to see you again, hen, BTW.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 24, 2010 1:19:13 GMT
I think Kenny MacAskill must be a muslim. Ha ha, no, he's an over-educated Presbyterian atheist pisshead like the best of us! Trust me, I know. But good post Random. This is such an interesting issue, particularly in a week that has seen the ICJ decision on Kosovo (the wrong decision I think). There is so much interesting to discuss about what it means for small nations' rights to self-determination, about US international positioning, etc. . . . but ultimately, one way or another, this thread is just going to end up being about Muslims again. Innit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2010 5:16:44 GMT
I hope it doesn't end up a Muslim thread.
But I think it a pity that Ali al-Megrahi was released before his appeal was heard. Your description of him as the "alleged Lockerbie bomber" can only be explained by the alcohol, surely? He was convicted and therefore wil remain guilty in the absence of a court decision saying otherwise, however flawed the trial.
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Post by mouse on Jul 24, 2010 9:20:14 GMT
P.P.S. The USA throwing its weight behind independence in Kosovo. Really, I mean really, do any of our American posters want to come online and explain to me what gives them the right to bully small nations like this? How dare they deny Serbia the right to self-determination within its own boundaries? Fuckers. the fact that scotland made a decission about the man released on the grounds he was suposed to have only weeks to live..IS NOTHING to do with the americans...the fact that the information is incorrect is NOTHING to do with the americans...end of the fact that BP and wheeler dealings may have ocoured is NOTHING to do with the americans....and certainly there are no reasons on this planet for any one to explain them selves to the americans if it turns out a deal WAS done then it is an INTERNAL AFFAIR BETWEEN THE SCOTISH AND UK GOVERNEMETS and the electorate and BP as for kossovo being a nation and serbia..what can we say except kosovo never was a nation and yet another example of the uk and america interfering in the afairs of others in this case Serbian affairs
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Post by fretslider on Jul 24, 2010 9:49:47 GMT
"I've been deliberately ignoring this board this past week or so because i'm so sick of the bigots."
"I don't give a fuck whether English people or American politicians or the rest of the world thinks Kenny MacAskill was right or not."
"It's our system. The rest of you can fuck off."
"Fuckers. "
Who are these bigots?
But to address the issue at hand.
Megrahi did not commit the crime of which he accused. That is why the appeal was never heard. Too much was at stake. So you're all talking a load of bollocks on that score.
As for elected politicians in one jurisdiction submitting to another jurisdiction, well, the Americans are plain daft or just having a laugh.
How many Americans took up an offer of appearing before Chilcot?
None for the very same reasons.
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 24, 2010 9:59:29 GMT
. . but ultimately, one way or another, this thread is just going to end up being about Muslims again. Innit. As I have said before, I find myself getting tired of this endless ranting regarding Muslims. I see that two or three people are posting endlessly in argeement. Either Lin builds a password protected board for all the Muslim crap or, I need to find a new message board that has interesting debates... ...Any ideas, RG?
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Post by fretslider on Jul 24, 2010 10:00:48 GMT
. . but ultimately, one way or another, this thread is just going to end up being about Muslims again. Innit. As I have said before, I find myself getting tired of this endless ranting regarding Muslims. I see that two or three people are posting endlessly in argeement. Either Lin builds a password protected board for all the Muslim crap or, I need to find a new message board that has interesting debates... ...Any ideas, RG? Why don't you start a board of your own..... Adios.
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Post by mouse on Jul 24, 2010 13:29:01 GMT
. . but ultimately, one way or another, this thread is just going to end up being about Muslims again. Innit. As I have said before, I find myself getting tired of this endless ranting regarding Muslims. I see that two or three people are posting endlessly in argeement. Either Lin builds a password protected board for all the Muslim crap or, I need to find a new message board that has interesting debates... ...Any ideas, RG? considering the language you use against those whose policys..politcis you disagree with you are in no position to yelp about bigotry...about any political group...or ANY group come to that... and were the followers of islam NOT causing problems all over the planet on weekly repitition then there would be no ocasion to even mention them or their political..legal or religious justifications and what is extraordinary is that it is only a few threads out of the entire board that causes all the angst....that has muslim crap....lots of other threads around without the muslim crap you so dislike...crap you get all wound up about but cannot dispute...crap to which your only answers are no answers people who live in glass houses...should never throw stones now what were you saying about tory scum !!!...mmm hyporcrite
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Post by Ben Lomond on Jul 24, 2010 13:32:13 GMT
I think Kenny MacAskill must be a muslim. Don't be too hard on Obama on this. He has an increasingly hostile media breathing down his neck, many of whom do not even consider him a 'rea'l American and more than a few think he is the anti christ, so he is playing to his populace. He is the President of a backward race of people with a backward culture who are too stupid to understand complex issues. A race of people who cannot get their head round the fact that British and English mean different things are unlikely to get the idea of our legal system. Don't blame obama for that. He has an IQ double most of the Nation and he has to dumb down to their level. Obama's hatred of the 'British' stems from the treatment his grandfather found himself on the wrong side of. Given that I find the behaviour of the British empire pretty shamefull, I would be a complete hypocrite to condemn the son of one of its victims to have his vision clouded by that. So I could cut him some slack. I agree with your view on Kenny by the way. Eck scores a hit too in my book. One of the milliband brothers called it 'completely wrong', but so far, he has failed to explain why. Perhaps he knows something about Scots law that the rest of us have forgotten? As an example of convoluted thinking, RV, you really take the biscuit! You purport to be all reason and light, yet you have no difficulty in dismissing the most technical, the most advanced nation on the face of the earth, as "a backward race of people, with a backward culture...etc". You MIGHT have argued (had you any sense) that, just as a small proportion of Muslims are engaged in terrorism and are actively seeking to attack the west, so a small proportion of Americans are religious nutcases with an insular outlook on life. And your view that Obama "hate" the English is hardly grounded on anything other than personal prejudice. By the way, the ONLY board you will find that has interesting debates (which means that all agree with your self important and self delusional crap), is the one you will find in your mirror! You do not appear to grasp the fact that these boards exist on catering for different opinions on just about every subject under the sun. If you demand self congratulatory and acquiescent debates, then , as I say, use your mirror. You and your reflection should get on well together.
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Post by mouse on Jul 24, 2010 13:32:42 GMT
"""Mr Hague also said several discussions were held between then foreign secretary Jack Straw and oil giant BP ahead of a controversial prisoner transfer agreement being agreed with Libya in 2007.
Meghrahi is the only person convicted of the 1988 bombing which killed 270 people and his release on compassionate grounds last August prompted anger in the US.
Mr Hague's letter was sent to Senator John Kerry, who chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee which is holding an inquiry into the bomber's release.""""
ah it becomes a little more explained its ""the foreign relations commitee"" not more aceptable but clearer why the questions are being asked
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Post by Ben Lomond on Jul 24, 2010 13:38:34 GMT
And on the subject of the release of Magrahi, there is plenty of evidence, from the statements of the Libyan leadership, the greasing of Gadaffi by Blair et al, and the coinciding of oil exploration rights with said release, that it was a political decision to enable us to get at Libyan oil. The Scots were leaned on, and they gave way. They dress it up as a humanitarian gesture, but let's get real here, folks! Magrahi was released as the price of a mutually beneficial contractual arrangement with the UK and Libya.
No other explanation makes any sense.
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Post by mouse on Jul 24, 2010 13:41:55 GMT
of course they are pretty much in agreement..they are using the same instances..of actions..history.. the koran/hadiths...what is going on around the world...daily examples..quotations etc etc i 2+2 make 4..there is going to be a lot of agreement that 4 is the answer... if there is an eclipse of the sun there is going to be an agreement that there was indeed an eclipse.
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Post by mouse on Jul 24, 2010 13:47:44 GMT
straight to the point as usual ben....well said
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 24, 2010 17:20:53 GMT
You purport to be all reason and light, yet you have no difficulty in dismissing the most technical, the most advanced nation on the face of the earth, Come on Ned, that is straightforward rubbish. The ‘most advanced’ Nation on Earth? Who are you trying to kid? Americans have banned the teaching of evolution in many places and replaced it with creationism and a good percentage of them reject the scientific consensus on climate change. I would accept that some Americans exploit science and most of the implications it brings, I also accept that many Americans are in the forefront f science in their field, but the vast majority show a level of ignorance that would put them those people to shame. so a small proportion of Americans are religious nutcases with an insular outlook on life. Certainly not a small majority, Ned. Look at the number of people who voted for Bush (the thickest World leader ever) and Palin (the creationist). Not just a few hicks, but tens of millions, Ned. And your view that Obama "hate" the English is hardly grounded on anything other than personal prejudice. Not the ‘English’ but the British. Again, Ned this is one that you should be able to discover by a quick search of the public domain. By the way, the ONLY board you will find that has interesting debates (which means that all agree with your self important and self delusional crap Again, Ned you humiliate yourself with another pointless accusation, I look forward to an interesting debate that does not come to the same conclusion that I do, but making things up in order to fit them into ‘facts that would be helpful to their cause does not count. People are entitled to their own opinions; they are not, however, entitled to there own facts.
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Post by randomvioce on Jul 24, 2010 17:27:21 GMT
And on the subject of the release of Magrahi, there is plenty of evidence, from the statements of the Libyan leadership, the greasing of Gadaffi by Blair et al, and the coinciding of oil exploration rights with said release, that it was a political decision to enable us to get at Libyan oil. This is exactly the type of thing I am talking about. It would be 'helpful' for you if there was a single piece of evidence that this decision was based on anything other than medical evidence, but alas, as per usual your sad little fantasies are nothing more than daydreams. This decision was taken precisely own medical evidence and nothing to do with Blair, BY or anyone else. Kenny MacAskill made his decision based on entirely on the medical evidence and the relevant Scots’ Law on the subject
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