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Post by mouse on Apr 30, 2010 14:22:39 GMT
Gordon Brown called the woman bigoted because he genuinely felt that her attitude towards immigration WAS bigoted. Why he should be forced to apologise for that is beyond me. he wasnt forced to apologise..he could have stuck to his guns...but he didnt...very hyporcritical
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 30, 2010 14:27:07 GMT
It's not hypocritical, Mouse; it's bad advice from his spin doctors.
As for Gillian Duffy, she's got fifty grand out of it so far!
If Cameron was manning the lifeboats it would make the 'Titanic' look like a well-ordered evacuation!
It really is ESSENTIAL that we PREVENT this dishonest, clueless, gormless poseur and wally from ever getting the keys to Number Ten.
I've got NO illusions about Labour or Brown but I honestly believe that Cameron would be the WORST Prime Minister we've had since Neville Chamberlain!
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Post by fretslider on Apr 30, 2010 14:55:10 GMT
It's not hypocritical, Mouse; it's bad advice from his spin doctors. As for Gillian Duffy, she's got fifty grand out of it so far! If Cameron was manning the lifeboats it would make the 'Titanic' look like a well-ordered evacuation! It really is ESSENTIAL that we PREVENT this dishonest, clueless, gormless poseur and wally from ever getting the keys to Number Ten. I've got NO illusions about Labour or Brown but I honestly believe that Cameron would be the WORST Prime Minister we've had since Neville Chamberlain! And Gillian Duffy only popped out for a loaf of bread! But be honest, Lin. Gordon should have had the guts to tell the voter what he thought of her to her face. He, like all politicians, is a two faced lying reptile. All for the cameras and.... his own career.
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 30, 2010 15:07:08 GMT
I agree but he's still a lesser evil and a lesser hypocrite than Cameron.
Cameron has flip-flopped or refused to give straight answers on EVERY major issue.
He keeps TALKING about 'capping immigration' WITHOUT giving figures or explaining how he'll control the EU members.
You live in Tooting, Fret, and I used to live there and in Streatham before I moved to Yorkshire (the Texas of England.)
You KNOW what a problem Poles, Czechs and Romanians - ALL legally allowed here thanks to the EU - have become in that part of London. When I lived in Streatham drunken Poles regularly vomited and urinated on the streets and got into alcohol-fuelled fights.
Cameron will do even LESS than Brown about immigration; he'll raise taxes MORE than Brown but he hasn't got the guts to admit it; and his figures on the National Health come straight out of the Walter Mitty school of economics.
He hasn't got a clue and Osborne is worse.
I'd rather vote LABOUR than for Cameron. I'd ALMOST rather vote BNP than for that lying toerag.
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Post by fretslider on Apr 30, 2010 15:13:13 GMT
Well, the problem here is still an Islamic one. A lot of the east Europeans have either moved on or gone home.
None of them really intend to do much about immigration, Labour least of all and Labour chose not to impose transitional controls on accession countries when the rest of the EU did. So all of Poles, Czechs and Romanians - and Bulgarians - could have been held back, but weren't. That's down to Labour
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 30, 2010 15:21:49 GMT
They haven't in Streatham - for the last four weeks Mike and I have returned to our house in Streatham. We'll be back in Yorkshire in two weeks time.
We're visiting friends and family down in London.
Streatham is even FULLER of Poles and Lithuanians and whatever than it was when we left a year ago.
I've got a Polish friend who runs his own business as a plumber and carpenter. He's been over here about seven years now.
He says that when the EU let the Poles in they came over to work.
NOW they just come over to Britain to live on our benefits.
Why should we pay taxes so that a bunch of drunken Poles can live on welfare?
It's also NOT true to say that it's just an Islamic problem.
If you go to Southall there are LOADS of problems with Hindus and Sikhs.
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 30, 2010 15:23:16 GMT
By the way, if you want to play the idiotic blame game, the Conservatives have CONSISTENTLY let in MORE immigrants than Labour.
Duncan Sandys let in the Kenyan Asians.
Ted Heath let in the Ugandan Asians.
Most of THEM, incidentally, were Hindus or Christians!
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Post by fretslider on Apr 30, 2010 17:02:03 GMT
They haven't in Streatham - for the last four weeks Mike and I have returned to our house in Streatham. We'll be back in Yorkshire in two weeks time. We're visiting friends and family down in London. Streatham is even FULLER of Poles and Lithuanians and whatever than it was when we left a year ago. I've got a Polish friend who runs his own business as a plumber and carpenter. He's been over here about seven years now. He says that when the EU let the Poles in they came over to work. NOW they just come over to Britain to live on our benefits. Why should we pay taxes so that a bunch of drunken Poles can live on welfare? It's also NOT true to say that it's just an Islamic problem. If you go to Southall there are LOADS of problems with Hindus and Sikhs. Streatham, as you know, is not Tooting and in Tooting it is an Islamic problem. The Poles etc were let in by Labour with no restrictions, QED
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Post by fretslider on Apr 30, 2010 17:05:13 GMT
By the way, if you want to play the idiotic blame game, the Conservatives have CONSISTENTLY let in MORE immigrants than Labour. Duncan Sandys let in the Kenyan Asians. Ted Heath let in the Ugandan Asians. Most of THEM, incidentally, were Hindus or Christians! The point is we are full up. Immigration has on average over the last 10 years or more been at twice the rate before Labour got in. That has lead to a breakdown in social cohesion and the fear that people now feel about immigration. Mention the I word and you're a racist or a bigot.
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Post by firedancer on Apr 30, 2010 17:44:41 GMT
You're right Fret. For those of us who have no per se problem with immigration in principle but think the problem is one of numbers in overcrowded areas of England plus rate of increase and thereby assimilation problems and sudden overload on public services (think Peterborough), it is extremely irritating to be labelled racist when it is not true. But the label is used as a knee-jerk response to close down discussion by those who don't want to face people's concerns.
In my own area, our GP surgery is struggling to cope because of a fairly sudden and large increase in registrations from Eastern Europe. That's not my view it is the explanation from the surgery of why people in the last year have to wait 10 days to see a doctor, except as emergency appointments, even though the practice has already taken on one additional full time doctor, one part time and is using a locum service as well.
It really is sloppy thinking and insulting to label anyone who raises concerns about the scale of immigration, racist or bigoted.
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Post by jean on Apr 30, 2010 18:52:39 GMT
...the problem is one of numbers in overcrowded areas of England... Which do not, actually, include Rochdale.
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Post by firedancer on Apr 30, 2010 20:48:49 GMT
I am puzzled as to what point you are making Jean (apart from the obvious one that the Rochdale area is not particularly overcrowded, which is pretty much self-evident).
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Post by jean on Apr 30, 2010 22:02:54 GMT
Mrs Duffy, whose expression of concern about migration fromn Eastern Europe are the subject of this thread, is from Rochdale.
So she shouldn't really be worried at all - as you say.
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Post by Big Lin on May 1, 2010 0:45:26 GMT
The point is that YOU'RE just SOFT on Tory failures but TOUGH on Labour ones.
I'm TOUGH on BOTH of them.
That's called consistency and its opposite is either muddle-headedness or hypocrisy!
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2010 7:45:03 GMT
Mrs Duffy, whose expression of concern about migration fromn Eastern Europe are the subject of this thread, is from Rochdale. So she shouldn't really be worried at all - as you say. Um....not sure about that. Immigration isn't a problem where I live, but that doesn't mean I can ignore widers issues or the concerns of others, who are by no means all tabloid readers. On the other hand, I do have a little sympathy with Gordon. Hands up anyone who has, after a particularly testing encounter with a member of the public, returned to the sanctuary of their office to spout off some unkind (and probably unfair) comments about the stranger who put you on the spot? I know I have!
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Post by mouse on May 1, 2010 8:31:31 GMT
Cameron will do even LESS than Brown about immigration; he'll raise taxes MORE than Brown . TAXES will go up who ever gets in..i have seen the figure 6p in the £ mooted....he could hardly tax more than brown /blair who have taxed every thing in sight already as for doing less about immigration.. ;D get real Lin how could anyone man or monkey do less or with more hate for the british people do less to curb immigration than labour who have activily encouraged and pampered unlimmited immigration to rub our noses in to social engineering on a large scale.... and rochdale may not be an immigrant haven but why should one have to live in a place inundated with immigrants to have serious concerns..WE SHOULD ALL HAVE CONCERNS i dont live in an area of immigrants..the nearest i come to an immigrant where i live is a 3rd generation barrister down the road and a retired ex multinational 2ND generation bussiness lady up the road..all very civilised HOWEVER it doesnt stop me [or them] being concerned when i go into the city a small town or to friends and see the absolute alteration in demographics. etc etc what has happened to our country is appalling and done without the consent of the people and there is no way that anyone should be classed as either a bigot or a racist for expressing those concerns...regardless of how those concerns are voiced.....the concerns are real...and people have an absolute RIGHT to object to what has been done a disaster for us and a disaster for many many immigrants
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Post by mouse on May 1, 2010 8:40:48 GMT
100% fret.....we are full full full....and the sooner its said out loud by our wimpy politos the better as for social cohesian...that has gone....yesterday i was talking to two gass fitters and a plumber nice chaps hard working family men....not rabid and not racist..BUT sick to the back teeth of what this country has descended into....these three men live on the front line as it were very very bitter at the way they feek they and their families have been sold out
all three felt they owed nothing..not taxes..not protection..not loyalty...not even politness to newcommers to our shores they felt in the words of one of them ""that they had been pxxssed on from a great height""and were totally depressed and very angry
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Post by jean on May 1, 2010 8:55:43 GMT
Immigration isn't a problem where I live, but that doesn't mean I can ignore widers issues... There is an established Polish community in Rochdale, and a lot of Poles used to work here - but no longer, obviously: www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/article2064389.eceHowever, Rochdale is also an area where the infamous HMRI has been operating - this is a (seriously misguided, in my view) attempt to cope with a falling population. I'd be very surprised if mrs Duffy was expressing concern for the overcrowded South East.
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Post by fretslider on May 1, 2010 9:12:53 GMT
The point is that YOU'RE just SOFT on Tory failures but TOUGH on Labour ones. I'm TOUGH on BOTH of them. That's called consistency and its opposite is either muddle-headedness or hypocrisy! Is that so! You're happy with our corrupt elected dictatorship it seems to me. I'll probably go with the English Democrats if I don't spoil the ballot paper. There really should be an option for none of the above.
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Post by fretslider on May 1, 2010 9:14:33 GMT
Mrs Duffy, whose expression of concern about migration fromn Eastern Europe are the subject of this thread, is from Rochdale. So she shouldn't really be worried at all - as you say. Right, I see what you're saying. How long before it goes the way of Peterborough?
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