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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Feb 3, 2010 2:31:04 GMT
Fact is that European governments just rape and assault their citizens with outrageous overbearing taxes like the petrol tax and road tolls. The sad thing is that the citizens say, "Thank you, I'll bend over now, please hose me again."
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Post by riotgrrl on Feb 3, 2010 11:46:23 GMT
Fact is that European governments just rape and assault their citizens with outrageous overbearing taxes like the petrol tax and road tolls. The sad thing is that the citizens say, "Thank you, I'll bend over now, please hose me again." Are you sure that that's a 'fact'? There are a lot of governments in Europe, and I'm certainly not aware of the tax regimes in all of them, so I'd be quite surprised if you were, but please feel free to prove me wrong. I remember sitting with a friend who lived in New York comparing what taxes we paid, and it seemed that she was paying far more tax proportionately than I was, but it wasn't a scientific experiment. What is the income tax rate in the USA? What local taxes do you pay?
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 3, 2010 12:00:43 GMT
I see your gasoline tax is 44.75 cents a gallon. And you think THAT is high? We are paying over £5 a gallon these days. Over 65% of that is tax. And at an exchange rate of $1.60 dollars to the pound, you would be paying 8 dollars a gallon. How does that sound? I think it comes down to real estate. US transportation firms travel many more miles, and if gas taxes become too high, there could be inflationary effects to consider. gas in caracas is sixteen cents a gallon. obviously, there is NO legitimate reason for it being more anywhere else. of course, that is because the oil company there is nationalized, as exxon mobil should be here.
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 3, 2010 12:03:20 GMT
"I think a flat tax amounting to about 10% of one's income, regardless of income level, would be getting pretty close to 'fair.' " that is anything but "fair", and definitely the least efficient way to finance public spending. Flat taxes are a form of tyranny designed to damage the bourgeois. Steve Forbes, for example, proposed a flat tax because it would benefit Steve Forbes. Period. He may wear a flag lapel pin, but he sure as hell isn't patriotic. Progressive taxation is the only proven method, yet US conservatives are determined to ruin them and corrupt its concept. We now have sales taxes, caps on Social Security and Medicare taxes, lowered capital gains taxes, and estate taxes (certainly the ‘fairest’ method of taxation) demonized as ‘death taxes’ (oh poor Paris Hilton!). “Fairness” is merely a buzz word for those with a different motive and agenda. The salient point is that if one is in the top 2% in the richest country in the world may be pissed about paying more taxes, but let's face reality here. Because the well off/wealthy have a much higher % of disposable income than others, so taxing them at the same rate is just passing the burden on to those who can less afford to pay. There's an argument that the same rate for everyone is "fair." There's an argument that the same amount from everyone is "fair." There's an argument that from each according to his ability to pay (however defined) is "fair." I'm not saying these are all equivalents; some may be more persuasive than others. But you can't just say "this is fair" and assume it is true. It’s an arbitrary assumption and thus only the practical and efficient methods are worthy of discussion. 10% per head just won’t cut it, das; not with a massive military build-up and endless proxy wars that Republicans, such as George W. Bush, tout. Taxes are either going to be paid by those who can most afford to do so or by those who are less able. But of course, in the US, asking the very well-off to contribute the same or even a little higher % than the middle class is "class warfare." that's the whole thing. the righties are never concerned about what is fair. their ONLY concern is, and always has been, as pontificated by limbaugh, coulter, and of course forbes, to enrich those who are already rich by depriving the real people as much as possible
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 3, 2010 12:09:09 GMT
I'm certainly in favor of everyone paying their fair share. I think a flat tax amounting to about 10% of one's income, regardless of income level, would be getting pretty close to 'fair.' But you lefties think a graduated income tax is fair. No way. moi? a leftist? surely you jest. i seriously doubt that you can convince riotgirl that i am a leftist. graduated income tax is NOT a leftist idea. it is the ONLY fair idea. as i explained to you, there is NOTHING unfair about an individual making a million dollars a year paying fifty percent tax, while the person making a hundred thousand, pays ten percent. the millionare has half a million dollars left, while the other only has $90,000. and you try to claim that is unfair to the millionaire. that is absurd on its face
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 3, 2010 12:14:09 GMT
I'm certainly in favor of everyone paying their fair share. I think a flat tax amounting to about 10% of one's income, regardless of income level, would be getting pretty close to 'fair.' But you lefties think a graduated income tax is fair. No way. I don't think it's 'lefties' alone who supoprt graduated income tax. Regressive taxation is seen as unfair, divisive and bad politics by the vast majority of politicians and economists. Rather it is a tiny group of far-right people who supoprt flat taxes. it is. das, in step with the far right lunatic fringe such as rush, ann, and dumbya, are against any and all social programs. they think that, if a single mother of four children is evicted from her home because a corporation outsourced her job to india, she and her kids should have to sleep under a bridge, while the ceo of that corporation puts gold shower curtains in his bathroom. that is their idea of fair. it would be nice if they could read a dictionary, huh?
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 3, 2010 12:19:28 GMT
Fact is that European governments just rape and assault their citizens with outrageous overbearing taxes like the petrol tax and road tolls. The sad thing is that the citizens say, "Thank you, I'll bend over now, please hose me again." Are you sure that that's a 'fact'? There are a lot of governments in Europe, and I'm certainly not aware of the tax regimes in all of them, so I'd be quite surprised if you were, but please feel free to prove me wrong. I remember sitting with a friend who lived in New York comparing what taxes we paid, and it seemed that she was paying far more tax proportionately than I was, but it wasn't a scientific experiment. What is the income tax rate in the USA? What local taxes do you pay? in theory, we have a graduated income tax, with the highest rate being 28%. unfortunately, there are so many loopholes, those in the highest bracket pay the least taxes. we have all kinds of local taxes. here, i have to pay sales tax on food. that is state by state. oregon, for example, has no sales tax at all, while california has 8.75%, with counties and cities adding another percent, but no sales tax on food.
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Post by riotgrrl on Feb 3, 2010 12:51:46 GMT
I've been trying to do a bit of online research into Bushadmirer's silly claims about Europe.
It's very difficult to directly compare tax rates, as there are so many hidden costs and different ways of taxing people, but the general conclusion seems to be that Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Denmark have the highest tax rates.
However, some analysts put the USA in the top five tax regimes when things like social security payments are taken into account.
Certainly some of the European countries (Czech Republic, some of the former Communist nations) appear to have far lower tax rates than the USA.
The really high income tax rates seem to be in Africa for whatever reason.
As I say, it is enormously complicated and, if we were going to do this academically ,we'd need to take into account the payments Americans have to make to private healthcare insurers for services which, in other countries, are paid for directly from income tax, etc.,
Suffice to say that my initial survey has shown that Bushadmirer is once again pontificating about Europe from a position of ignorance.
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 3, 2010 22:47:26 GMT
I've been trying to do a bit of online research into Bushadmirer's silly claims about Europe. It's very difficult to directly compare tax rates, as there are so many hidden costs and different ways of taxing people, but the general conclusion seems to be that Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Denmark have the highest tax rates. However, some analysts put the USA in the top five tax regimes when things like social security payments are taken into account. Certainly some of the European countries (Czech Republic, some of the former Communist nations) appear to have far lower tax rates than the USA. The really high income tax rates seem to be in Africa for whatever reason. As I say, it is enormously complicated and, if we were going to do this academically ,we'd need to take into account the payments Americans have to make to private healthcare insurers for services which, in other countries, are paid for directly from income tax, etc., Suffice to say that my initial survey has shown that Bushadmirer is once again pontificating about Europe from a position of ignorance. ,we'd need to take into account the payments Americans have to make to private healthcare insurers for services which, in other countries, are paid for directly from income tax, etc. of course that's true, but das would go miles around it to avoid that. the AVERAGE insurance cost for a family of four is around $700-$800 monthly. when a wage earner is only making $40,000 a year, yet paying the unconscionable insurance premiums to the tune of around nine thousand a year, over twenty percent of his income, it is self evident how ridiculous the situation is, and how europe is so much better as far as taxation goes
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Post by randomvioce on Feb 3, 2010 23:47:35 GMT
moi? a leftist? surely you jest. You are a weirdfish, Jumbo. You are right wing on a lot of social issues, right enough, but on plently of economic issues you appear to the left of most of France, Sweden and even more Left than many Italians! You could pass for a classic European Socialist at times. Everybody should have a mixture of Left/Right Wing in them anyway, as it shows something of an open mind. The pure left/right mind shows nothing than a fish following a tide be that Labour/Democrat/Republican or whatever. Peole like me find it hard to pick a party because we have differing views and do not fit into a political box.
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Post by randomvioce on Feb 3, 2010 23:51:32 GMT
Fact is that European governments just rape and assault their citizens with outrageous overbearing taxes like the petrol tax and road tolls. The sad thing is that the citizens say, "Thank you, I'll bend over now, please hose me again." Yet all these Countries work though? The highest tax Countries in Europe have better outcomes than lower tax Countries throughout the World. They have much better education, transport, health, poverty, crime rates than the low tax Countries. When you compare Sweden to the UK they have far better outcomes, even though they have to pay through the nose for them.
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 4, 2010 13:27:20 GMT
moi? a leftist? surely you jest. You are a weirdfish, Jumbo. You are right wing on a lot of social issues, right enough, but on plently of economic issues you appear to the left of most of France, Sweden and even more Left than many Italians! You could pass for a classic European Socialist at times. Everybody should have a mixture of Left/Right Wing in them anyway, as it shows something of an open mind. The pure left/right mind shows nothing than a fish following a tide be that Labour/Democrat/Republican or whatever. Peole like me find it hard to pick a party because we have differing views and do not fit into a political box. you are quite correct. on some issues, i'm to the right of dickie boy cheney, and on some, i'm to the left of ralph nader. that is because i take what is correct from each side, and combine it to make the all around correct position. i am a TRUE centrist. NO political position is correct on everything, or even most things. that is where das, and his troupe, have the problem. walking lock step with ideologues of ANY political leaning means that you do not have the gumption to think for yourself, and as a result, you are stuck with repeating the party line, no matter how absurd.
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 4, 2010 13:32:46 GMT
Fact is that European governments just rape and assault their citizens with outrageous overbearing taxes like the petrol tax and road tolls. The sad thing is that the citizens say, "Thank you, I'll bend over now, please hose me again." Yet all these Countries work though? The highest tax Countries in Europe have better outcomes than lower tax Countries throughout the World. They have much better education, transport, health, poverty, crime rates than the low tax Countries. When you compare Sweden to the UK they have far better outcomes, even though they have to pay through the nose for them. but, EVERYONE benefits, which is what irks those of das' persuasion. while there are still the super rich in sweden, there is not the super poor. everyone there is as close to equality as it is possbile to come, and equality is anathema to the right wing. i don't want to help those who have voluntarily put themselves in the position of not being able to provide for themselves, ie druggies etc. the difference is that das don't think that we should help those who are in that position through absolutely NO fault of their own
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Post by pumpkinette on Feb 4, 2010 15:49:56 GMT
moi? a leftist? surely you jest. You are a weirdfish, Jumbo. You are right wing on a lot of social issues, right enough, but on plently of economic issues you appear to the left of most of France, Sweden and even more Left than many Italians! You could pass for a classic European Socialist at times. Everybody should have a mixture of Left/Right Wing in them anyway, as it shows something of an open mind. The pure left/right mind shows nothing than a fish following a tide be that Labour/Democrat/Republican or whatever. Peole like me find it hard to pick a party because we have differing views and do not fit into a political box. Same here! I left the Democratic Party in 2008 and am glad for that EVERY day. However, the 1 I joined (Constitution Party) I don't agree with ALL of their platform, but it's the best "fit" I can find at this point.
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Post by clemiethedog on Feb 7, 2010 14:57:31 GMT
"Certainly some of the European countries (Czech Republic, some of the former Communist nations) appear to have far lower tax rates than the USA."
The Czech Republic has a flat tax rate, but unlike the US there is little wealth disparity so it’s defensible to some extent. Of course, while the Czech Republic has experienced growth and prosperity, they have also struggled with deficits. One of the main goals there, along with Poland, Hungary, etc has been attracting foreign investment since the communists were tossed twenty years ago.
Most of the developed world has a compression between the wealthiest and poorest, or a thriving middle class. This is what distinguishes the USA from the rest. While the rest has something of an egalitarian principle that all jobs have value and thus less inequality, the US resembles an oligarchy with extreme wealth and poverty. In terms of numbers, the ‘working poor’ in the US has been in the upswing. The trend is a two tier society driven by economics, with feudal lords on one side and serfdom on the other.
The underlying dynamic is that conservative Republicans hate people, they hate their country and their world. All they love is their money.
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 7, 2010 20:44:38 GMT
"Certainly some of the European countries (Czech Republic, some of the former Communist nations) appear to have far lower tax rates than the USA." The Czech Republic has a flat tax rate, but unlike the US there is little wealth disparity so it’s defensible to some extent. Of course, while the Czech Republic has experienced growth and prosperity, they have also struggled with deficits. One of the main goals there, along with Poland, Hungary, etc has been attracting foreign investment since the communists were tossed twenty years ago. Most of the developed world has a compression between the wealthiest and poorest, or a thriving middle class. This is what distinguishes the USA from the rest. While the rest has something of an egalitarian principle that all jobs have value and thus less inequality, the US resembles an oligarchy with extreme wealth and poverty. In terms of numbers, the ‘working poor’ in the US has been in the upswing. The trend is a two tier society driven by economics, with feudal lords on one side and serfdom on the other. The underlying dynamic is that conservative Republicans hate people, they hate their country and their world. All they love is their money. you put the republican platform in two sentences. cool
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Post by pumpkinette on Feb 12, 2010 20:52:37 GMT
"Certainly some of the European countries (Czech Republic, some of the former Communist nations) appear to have far lower tax rates than the USA." The Czech Republic has a flat tax rate, but unlike the US there is little wealth disparity so it’s defensible to some extent. Of course, while the Czech Republic has experienced growth and prosperity, they have also struggled with deficits. One of the main goals there, along with Poland, Hungary, etc has been attracting foreign investment since the communists were tossed twenty years ago. Most of the developed world has a compression between the wealthiest and poorest, or a thriving middle class. This is what distinguishes the USA from the rest. While the rest has something of an egalitarian principle that all jobs have value and thus less inequality, the US resembles an oligarchy with extreme wealth and poverty. In terms of numbers, the ‘working poor’ in the US has been in the upswing. The trend is a two tier society driven by economics, with feudal lords on one side and serfdom on the other. The underlying dynamic is that conservative Republicans hate people, they hate their country and their world. All they love is their money. Very, very sad and disgusting how you put ALL Republicans into this category (your last sentence). You're plain wrong. Would YOU like it if people said the same about ALL Democrats, or something like ALL Democrats don't care about spending endlessly on government programs, etc.? You know, some STEREOTYPE about Democrats? This is so sad. There's at least 1 Republican currently in US government who blows away your unfair blanket statement: Ron Paul. 1 person is ENOUGH to blow away unfair blanket statements, stereotypes, etc., thank God. Have you ever thought that the elite (those who TRULY run many is US government) WANT YOU to think in these terms, seriously? That you be part of an ENDLESS, SELF-DESTRUCTIVE debate between left and right: I hate the right and won't give any of them a chance? That you think in these unfair stereotypes? It's JUST AS BAD to say I hate ALL on the left, by the way. Do you really want to live in such a small category box? How about looking into who REALLY run most people in government? And BREAK OUT of this kind of thinking that's very unfair and hurtful. This thinking also hurts people NOT in office. I'm socially conservative in at least a few ways and it's a total lie that I don't care about people, the US, etc.! I'll be glad to give you the evidence of why I don't fit your cruel stereotype if you're interested (maybe open your mind a little?). Please realize you can be socially conservative and CARE about people, etc. Also, being socially conservative in at least a few ways doesn't automatically make people a member of the Republican Party. I'm so tired of THAT stereotype I could scream my head off.
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Post by pumpkinette on Feb 12, 2010 20:52:55 GMT
"Certainly some of the European countries (Czech Republic, some of the former Communist nations) appear to have far lower tax rates than the USA." The Czech Republic has a flat tax rate, but unlike the US there is little wealth disparity so it’s defensible to some extent. Of course, while the Czech Republic has experienced growth and prosperity, they have also struggled with deficits. One of the main goals there, along with Poland, Hungary, etc has been attracting foreign investment since the communists were tossed twenty years ago. Most of the developed world has a compression between the wealthiest and poorest, or a thriving middle class. This is what distinguishes the USA from the rest. While the rest has something of an egalitarian principle that all jobs have value and thus less inequality, the US resembles an oligarchy with extreme wealth and poverty. In terms of numbers, the ‘working poor’ in the US has been in the upswing. The trend is a two tier society driven by economics, with feudal lords on one side and serfdom on the other. The underlying dynamic is that conservative Republicans hate people, they hate their country and their world. All they love is their money. you put the republican platform in two sentences. cool
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Post by clemiethedog on Feb 13, 2010 17:24:25 GMT
"This party (the GOP) is dominated by a bunch of freaks and kooks"
Barry Goldwater, 1988.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Feb 13, 2010 19:40:09 GMT
Tax his land, Tax his bed, Tax the table At which he's fed. Tax his tractor, Tax his mule, Teach him taxes Are the rule. Tax his work, Tax his pay, He works for peanuts Anyway! Tax his cow, Tax his goat, Tax his pants, Tax his coat. Tax his ties, Tax his shirt, Tax his work, Tax his dirt. Tax his tobacco, Tax his drink, Tax him if he Tries to think. Tax his cigars, Tax his beers, If he cries Tax his tears. Tax his car, Tax his gas, Find other ways To tax his ass. Tax all he has Then let him know That you won't be done Till he has no dough. When he screams and hollers Then tax him some more, Tax him till He's good and sore. Then tax his coffin, Tax his grave, Tax the sod in Which he's laid. Put these words Upon his tomb, "Taxes drove me to my doom" When he's gone, Do not relax, Its time to apply The inheritance tax. Accounts Receivable Tax Building Permit Tax CDL license Tax Cigarette Tax Corporate Income Tax Dog License Tax Excise Taxes Federal Income Tax Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA) Fishing License Tax Food License Tax Fuel Permit Tax Gasoline Tax (currently 74.75 cents per gallon) Gross Receipts Tax Hunting License Tax Inheritance Tax Inventory Tax IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax) Liquor Tax Luxury Taxes Marriage License Tax Medicare Tax Personal Property Tax Property Tax Real Estate Tax Service Charge Tax Social Security Tax Road Usage Tax Sales Tax Recreational Vehicle Tax School Tax State Income Tax State Unemployment Tax (SUTA) Telephone Federal Excise Tax Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax Telephone State and Local Tax Telephone Usage Charge Tax Utility Taxes Vehicle License Registration Tax Vehicle Sales Tax Watercraft Registration Tax Well Permit Tax Workers Compensation Tax STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY? Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the hell happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'
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