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Post by mouse on Aug 12, 2009 9:06:14 GMT
I agree. So take that up with Mouse who is certain that the Turkish Muslim conquest of the Muslim and Orthodox Christian Middle East is a matter of Muslim, not Turkish, expansion, while the Crusader attacks on the Muslim and Orthodox Christian Middle East are examples of Chirsit liberation from Muslim supremacy. Given the state of Islam and Christendom at the time, cwe can guess that the failure of Islam to conquer Europe spared us som e500 years at least of civilisation. that is quite untrue """Christian Middle East are examples of Chirsit liberation from Muslim supremacy.""" i have never said or intimated the above.. and this is also untrue """we can guess that the failure of Islam to conquer Europe spared us som e500 years at least of civilisation"" considering that the european countries where islam went civilisation was never on the agends..booty..jizzyah..slavery..intimidation were the order of the day..not civilisation
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Post by mouse on Aug 12, 2009 9:08:19 GMT
[ Even the Crusades, though motivated by the Western Christian hierarchy, motivated by 600 yrs of determination to invade and destroy the byzantines and take constantinple...that was the motivation
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Post by Liberator on Aug 13, 2009 16:39:18 GMT
I agree. So take that up with Mouse who is certain that the Turkish Muslim conquest of the Muslim and Orthodox Christian Middle East is a matter of Muslim, not Turkish, expansion, while the Crusader attacks on the Muslim and Orthodox Christian Middle East are examples of Chirsit liberation from Muslim supremacy. Given the state of Islam and Christendom at the time, cwe can guess that the failure of Islam to conquer Europe spared us som e500 years at least of civilisation. that is quite untrue """Christian Middle East are examples of Chirsit liberation from Muslim supremacy.""" i have never said or intimated the above.. and this is also untrue """we can guess that the failure of Islam to conquer Europe spared us som e500 years at least of civilisation"" considering that the european countries where islam went civilisation was never on the agends..booty..jizzyah..slavery..intimidation were the order of the day..not civilisation Is that why for 400 years monks travelled from Northern Europe to Spain to learn the sciences and medicine where Jews and heretics were free to teach?
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Post by mouse on Aug 13, 2009 17:30:05 GMT
during the brief flowering of spainish islam...just as when the celts flourished the sons of kings and princes came to learn...it happens but i sugest that europe is a little larger than spain....
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Post by Liberator on Aug 14, 2009 0:05:47 GMT
Precisely. In the whole of Europe at that time, only Spain offered anything worth having. Even the dimming East Roman Empire was less attractive to Christians desirous of learning than Muslim Spain.
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Post by mouse on Aug 14, 2009 7:39:59 GMT
Precisely. In the whole of Europe at that time, only Spain offered anything worth having. Even the dimming East Roman Empire was less attractive to Christians desirous of learning than Muslim Spain. and the rest of muslim europe ?
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Post by Big Lin on Aug 14, 2009 14:33:16 GMT
There WAS no 'rest of Muslim Europe' at that time - the Ottomans got into Eastern Europe much later and Varna in 1444 was essentially the last Crusade.
It took them until 1470 to conquer Greece and even longer to subdue Eastern Europe.
By then Muslim Spain had been reduced to Granada and even that went in 1492 so the two situations are not comparable at all, dear Mouse.
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Post by mouse on Aug 14, 2009 15:44:31 GMT
There WAS no 'rest of Muslim Europe' it doesnt matter at ecactly what time in europe..any where in europe where islam was will do..be it kiev.. spain... etc with one brief flowering""""we can guess that the failure of Islam to conquer Europe spared us some 500 years at least of civilisation.""" and thankgoodness we were spared.....but not for long acording to the figures and then you can all enjoy islam to your hearts content...and welcome to it you all are
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Post by lonewolf on Aug 19, 2009 6:06:04 GMT
motivated by 600 yrs of determination to invade and destroy the byzantines and take constantinple...that was the motivation Politics is the science of increasing power; therefore, the motivation was political in nature and not religious.
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Post by ronmorgen on Sept 9, 2009 5:21:56 GMT
With Christianity, if you really followed the teachings of Christ, you'd be opening up orphanages, feeding the hungry, and helping the poor. You'd never steal, swindle, commit sexual sins or murder, You'd be doing good deeds. Christianity is supposed to be a religion of doing good to others, especially those less fortunate. If that's not happening, I doubt if they are going to heaven.
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Post by Liberator on Sept 9, 2009 12:32:27 GMT
The biggest problem with Christianity now is its followers who should really be calling themselves Reformed Jews because the only parts of the New Testament they care about are Revelation and where it doesn't contradict the Old. Not so true in the past but there are a lot of gaps in early Christian history that look to me like things have been removed and the thing I think has been removed is a close connection to religious terrorism that failed at Masada. I think a lot of heart-searching and coming together of similar but not quite identical sects went on in the years 70 when Christians really separated out as mainly pagan converts separate from Jews and hostile to each other. You can bet there was hostility between Jews outside of Palestine and the lot who'd started the uprising or any they felt connected.
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Post by Big Lin on Sept 9, 2009 13:28:50 GMT
You are so right, Ron.
Christianity is a religion of love and God loves us miserable sinners.
Jesus said 'whatever you have done for the least of things, you have done it for me; whatever you have NOT done for the least of things, you have not done it for me.'
Primitive Christianity was all about love and salvation.
Unfortunately when the Church became an institution it ran off the rails.
We need to return to the old values of Primitive Christianity so that we can do our little bit to help Our Lord in His task of saving the world from our own selfishness, stupidity and our wicked ways.
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