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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jul 10, 2013 3:52:35 GMT
The jury's instructions from the judge are: 1/ Must be found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. 2/ The jurors are required to presume innocence unless clearly proven guilty 3/ All twelve jurors must vote guilty unanimously for a conviction Based on what I've heard so far, there isn't much chance that all three of those conditions will be met. i thought there was only 6 on the jury? Gibby said, "I thought there were only six on the jury." I stand corrected. In Texas, where I live, there would be a jury of twelve. Under Florida law, six-person juries hear all criminal cases except capital offenses. The charges against Zimmerman do not make it a capital case.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 12:19:44 GMT
The jury's instructions from the judge are: 1/ Must be found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. 2/ The jurors are required to presume innocence unless clearly proven guilty 3/ All twelve jurors must vote guilty unanimously for a conviction Based on what I've heard so far, there isn't much chance that all three of those conditions will be met. i thought there was only 6 on the jury? I'm feeling a hung jury here
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jul 10, 2013 19:56:44 GMT
I see that Zimmerman has elected not to testify in his own defense after discussing with his lawyers. That's as of wednesday July 10th.
My theory is that his attorneys feel like Zimmerman is clearly winning the case based on evidence and testimony submitted to date. So why give the prosecutors the opportunity to question Zimmerman? Tripping him up during questioning would be their only remaining chance to swing the case in the other direction. By not letting him testify, they take away that opportunity for the prosecutors.
The defense just now rested its case.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 9:32:26 GMT
I see that Zimmerman has elected not to testify in his own defense after discussing with his lawyers. That's as of wednesday July 10th. My theory is that his attorneys feel like Zimmerman is clearly winning the case based on evidence and testimony submitted to date. So why give the prosecutors the opportunity to question Zimmerman? Tripping him up during questioning would be their only remaining chance to swing the case in the other direction. By not letting him testify, they take away that opportunity for the prosecutors. The defense just now rested its case. i always think that if they don't testify the jury may wonder, why not? if he hasnt anything to hide why not tell us his story? and do they really have enough to guarantee an acquittal?
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 11, 2013 13:25:11 GMT
The defense wants text messages on Trayvon's cell phone admitted as evidence. The messages alledgedly show that Martin liked fighting. A picture of a gun and Trayvon's texts about drug use are also on the cell phone. Trayvon was with his father because according to the text messages M's mother kicked him out!
The defense also wants an animated video showing their version of the Martin/Zimmerman encounter.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jul 11, 2013 17:53:42 GMT
I see that Zimmerman has elected not to testify in his own defense after discussing with his lawyers. That's as of wednesday July 10th. My theory is that his attorneys feel like Zimmerman is clearly winning the case based on evidence and testimony submitted to date. So why give the prosecutors the opportunity to question Zimmerman? Tripping him up during questioning would be their only remaining chance to swing the case in the other direction. By not letting him testify, they take away that opportunity for the prosecutors. The defense just now rested its case. i always think that if they don't testify the jury may wonder, why not? if he hasnt anything to hide why not tell us his story? and do they really have enough to guarantee an acquittal? There is an interesting article on this very topic posted here: www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/07/11/george_zimmerman_trial_trayvon_martin_s_shooter_declined_to_testify_will.htmlThe relevant instruction for Florida’s criminal courts reads, in part: The defendant exercised a fundamental right by choosing not to be a witness in this case. You must not view this as an admission of guilt or be influenced in any way by [his] [her] decision. No juror should ever be concerned that the defendant did or did not take the witness stand to give testimony in the case. When a defendant takes the stand, he enters an uncontrollable situation, opening himself up to cross-examination that could shake his composure and alibi and prove fatal to his chances for acquittal. In a 2012 Minnesota Law Review article, Ted Sampsell-Jones wrote that the “current legal system encourages criminal defendants to remain silent,” because they know that “the relative costs of taking the stand are high, and that remaining silent is a far safer option.” The trial has been going pretty well for Zimmerman so far. I suspect he and his attorneys aren’t losing any sleep over the decision to maintain his silence.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 12, 2013 4:47:33 GMT
The Zimmerman defense team made this video attempting the reconstruct the Zimmerman/Martin encounter based on testimonies.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 13, 2013 14:52:51 GMT
Demonstrators are in front of the courthouse making noise and trying to pressure the jurors to render a guilty verdict
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 14, 2013 4:41:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 11:10:43 GMT
I don't look at it like that at all. The way I look at is that it was the actions of Zimmerman that caused the whole problem in the first place andthat hekilled a young man without cause after he'd picked a fight with him first.
My sympathises are with Trayvon Martin's family
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jul 14, 2013 13:52:27 GMT
Unfortunately, this case so reminds me of the OJ Simpson trial. That is, not in terms of the result, but in terms of racial biases coming to the surface.
Many blacks will see this verdict as unfair discrimination against blacks. This despite the fact that the evidence clearly favored Zimmerman, as the jury unanimously agreed.
Prominent race baiter Al Sharpton released this statement:
Rev. Al Sharpton: "The acquittal of George Zimmerman is a slap in the face to the American people but it is only the first round in the pursuit of justice. We intend to ask the Department of Justice to move forward as they did in the Rodney King case and we will closely monitor the civil case against Mr. Zimmerman. I will convene an emergency call with preachers tonight to discuss next steps and I intend to head to Florida in the next few days."
Adora Obi Nweze, president of the Florida NAACP State Conference: "We lost a young man due to senseless violence, but justice did not prevail. Last year we pushed for the arrest of George Zimmerman and a thorough investigation and trial. Today, we are still called to act. No one should be allowed to use this law to commit a senseless crime again."
It is very sad to see quotes like that. These people are ignoring the judicial process and presuming that their own pre-conceived notions were correct. What's worse, is that their quotes are intended to inflame their constituents. They want to make this about racial prejudice which I don't believe had anything to do with the verdict.
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Post by Big Lin on Jul 14, 2013 14:06:14 GMT
The sad death of Trayvon Martin
by Linda Marshall
it's all a sad affair a young kid dead needlessly Zimmerman was told not to go after Trayvon Martin he wasn't a cop just a neighborhood watchman so he had no business chasing the kid maybe Trayvon Martin wasn't an angel maybe he did bad stuff sometimes but basically it was because Zimmerman chased him when told not to do so that Martin was killed I wouldn't call it murder but if I was on the jury I'd find Zimmerman guilty of manslaughter
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 14:07:48 GMT
I'm appalled, too. And I'm also appalled that the 'neighbourhood watcher', who wasn't even a policeman, was legally entitled to carry the gun which he then used so irresponsibly. And not only entitled to carry the gun, but commit murder with it AND get away with it! I'm appalled and disgusted. I feel sorry for the the Trayvon Family, Justice was not served and worse what does this show us? That any Tom, Dick or Herriete can carry a gun and shoot whoever they wish and be justified in doing so, as long as they think, in their little heads, they are. Oh wait they have to have a 'reason' and in this case it was 'he was young and black and male and stepping on my side of the street and we can't have that can we?' We all know if he had been a she and white, it would have been a different outcome and story. Shame on America! Hide away your kids, folks!
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jul 14, 2013 15:18:18 GMT
The defense presented forensic evidence methodically and comprehensively. The jury unanimously voted for acquittal. I think that same result would have happened with another jury in another court in another state. There just wasn't the evidence required for a conviction.
Trials are in a courtroom and that's where they should remain (as opposed to trials in the news media or trial in demonstrations lead by rabble rousers like Al Sharpton).
The prosecution overcharged Zimmerman. The people on the jury are not stupid. The prosecution overreached. The media had its own agenda.
Zimmerman lived in a crime ridden neighborhood. That's why a group of neighbors formed a volunteer neighborhood watch group. They didn't feel that the police were being successful at preventing crimes. It makes total sense for a neighborhood watchman, who is on duty, to be armed for self protection.
Zimmerman may have been guilty of poor judgment. Surely he could have handled the situation differently. He's probably not the brightest guy around. Those failings are regrettable but they're not something he should be put on trial for. I think he was a victim of public outrage falsely accused of a crime and thankfully acquitted in a jury trial.
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Post by Big Lin on Jul 14, 2013 22:27:37 GMT
The simple FACT is that if Zimmerman had done what he was told to do and walked away and left things to the police Trayvon Martin would not have died.
ZZimmerman may not be a murderer but he's certainly guilty of manslaughter on any reasonable definition of the word.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 15, 2013 22:44:35 GMT
The simple FACT is that if Zimmerman had done what he was told to do and walked away and left things to the police Trayvon Martin would not have died. ZZimmerman may not be a murderer but he's certainly guilty of manslaughter on any reasonable definition of the word. Dearest Lin, There's certainly no law against following people or shadowing them. If Zimmerman was convicted it would be an ominous precident for say private detectives, who may be shadowing someone prone to violence. With a Zimmerman conviction they wouldn't be able to defend themselves with a lethal weapon if neccesary.
This case shouldn't be about race. If a white teen went into a black neighborhood and say a member of a gang started following him. The white teen would be foolish to try to bushwack the gang member! The gang member could claim self defense, if he shot the white teen after being violently attacked. I certainly wouldn't go marching to protest this reckless white teen's death.
Zimmerman is a pudgy, slow, scared wimp in very poor physical condition with no history of picking fights. I and probably most of us here could shove him to the ground and push down with a foot or a shove if he tried to get up. IMO opinion Martin doubled back when he noticed that Z. was totally out of breath from either a short run or a brisk walk. Martin knew what that meant from his street fighting. Z was no match for M!
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Post by Big Lin on Jul 16, 2013 10:45:39 GMT
Basically the sensible thing to do was for Zimmerman to have called the police and left it to them.
We have neighbourhood watches in Britain and they are specifically told NOT to go after criminals but to report the situation to the police.
Zimmerman had no business following Martin and it is entirely because he did even though the emergency operator said that he should not that the kid was killed.
Of course there are times you have to stand up but as Martin was NOT attacking Zimmerman BEFORE he found himself needlessly chased and cornered by him it's pretty simple.
Zimmerman is to blame and no one else.
He ought to be spending time in prison for what he did which was a disgrace.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 16, 2013 13:15:53 GMT
Basically the sensible thing to do was for Zimmerman to have called the police and left it to them. We have neighbourhood watches in Britain and they are specifically told NOT to go after criminals but to report the situation to the police. Zimmerman had no business following Martin and it is entirely because he did even though the emergency operator said that he should not that the kid was killed. Of course there are times you have to stand up but as Martin was NOT attacking Zimmerman BEFORE he found himself needlessly chased and cornered by him it's pretty simple. Zimmerman is to blame and no one else. He ought to be spending time in prison for what he did which was a disgrace. Zimmerman claimed he had no intention of confronting Martin or even getting close to him. Z. claimed he only wanted to see where M. went. That testimony was never discredited or proven false.
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Post by Big Lin on Jul 16, 2013 20:46:29 GMT
Basically the sensible thing to do was for Zimmerman to have called the police and left it to them. We have neighbourhood watches in Britain and they are specifically told NOT to go after criminals but to report the situation to the police. Zimmerman had no business following Martin and it is entirely because he did even though the emergency operator said that he should not that the kid was killed. Of course there are times you have to stand up but as Martin was NOT attacking Zimmerman BEFORE he found himself needlessly chased and cornered by him it's pretty simple. Zimmerman is to blame and no one else. He ought to be spending time in prison for what he did which was a disgrace. Zimmerman claimed he had no intention of confronting Martin or even getting close to him. Z. claimed he only wanted to see where M. went. That testimony was never discredited or proven false.He had no business doing that. He'd done his bit by alerting the police. The fact that he then tried to 'see where Martin went' shows IMO that Zimmerman had malice aforethought. And if he'd just made the call and left it at that he wouldn't have killed anyone. Zimmerman's actions - and ONLY his actions - led to Martin's unnecessary death. So IMO he is guilty of manslaughter.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jul 17, 2013 0:10:27 GMT
Book Deal For Zimmerman Juror Falls Apart After Angry Social Media Backlash
This is too bad. I think it would be interesting to read a book written by one of the jurors.
________
An angry backlash has forced a juror in the George Zimmerman murder case to abandon plans to write a book about her experience, as activists at the biggest civil rights group in the US tore up the agenda at their annual convention on Tuesday.
New York publishing house Martin Literary Management issued a statement declaring it had rescinded its offer of co-operation to the middle-aged woman, known only as juror B37, "after careful consideration" in response to thousands of critical messages on social media. The woman gave a television interview on Monday night in which she revealed that the jury was initially split over Zimmerman's guilt.
In Orlando, Florida, less than 30 miles from where Martin was killed last year, delegates at the annual convention of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) stepped up their pressure on the Obama administration to launch a federal prosecution against Zimmerman.
Former officials from the DoJ have been playing down the chances of new charges, which would require a prosecutors to prove that Zimmerman was motivated by race when he confronted and the fatally shot the teenager in a gated community in Sanford, Florida, in February 2012.
But the attorney general, Eric Holder, raised hopes about the prospects of a fresh prosecution on Monday, when he said that he shared concerns about the "tragic, unnecessary death" of Martin, who was shot dead by Zimmerman as he walked home from a convenience store.
Holder was due to address the NAACP convention on Tuesday. Benjamin Jealous, the president of the NAACP, said he was hopeful that Holder would address the organisation's demand for a federal trial. "What matters here are the facts and the legal standard. We believe there are enough facts to meet the legal standard, and that the US Justice Department should bring criminal civil rights charges," Jealous told the Guardian.
Any decision is likely to take months.
Protests continued around the US in the wake of the verdict, with 14 arrests at demonstrations that turned violent in Los Angeles late on Monday. In New York, demonstrators chanted: "Trayvon dead, Zimmerman free, this is not democracy," and carried pointedly worded banners that read: "Trayvon was lynched".
Meanwhile juror B37 appeared to express regret for pursuing a book deal. The woman, one of the six female jurors who on Saturday acquitted Zimmerman, a neighbourhood watch leader, released a statement acknowledging the "depth of pain that exists among the general public over every aspect of this case".
The woman said she had only realised the sensitivities surrounding the three-week trial, during which the jury was sequestered, after returning home. She said she now realised that writing the book, which she intended as "a respectful observation of the trial from my and my husband's perspectives" was no longer the direction in which she wanted to go.
With her face blacked out, she appeared in a television interview on Monday night, revealing that only three members of the six-woman panel had initially voted to acquit Zimmerman. Two thought he was guilty of manslaughter, and one believed he was guilty of the original charge, second-degree murder.
The woman said that she and fellow jurors believed that Martin threw the first punch in the fatal confrontation, leaving Zimmerman in fear of his life. That, she said, was the determining factor in why the three changed their minds.
She insisted that justice had been served. "George Zimmerman is a man whose heart was in the right place, but just got displaced by the vandalism in the neighbourhood … he wanted to catch these people so badly that he went above and beyond what he really should have done," she told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday night.
"It just went terribly wrong," she said. "Things just got out of hand. I think he's guilty of not using good judgment."
The panel deliberated for more than 16 hours before all of them accepted that Zimmerman acted in self-defence, she said.
Jealous said Holder would get a warm welcome at the NAACP convention in Florida. "Holder always gets a hero's reception at the NAACP, because he has done a great job rebuilding the civil rights division of the Justice Department, which was virtually dismantled by George W Bush," he said.
"Eric Holder is often candid when he comes to speak to us. We expect he will make honest comments about the state of civil rights."
Tensions in the wake of the verdict were apparent particularly in Los Angeles, where protesters ran through streets Monday night, breaking windows, attacking people on sidewalks and raiding a Walmart store, while others blocked a major freeway in the San Francisco Bay area in the third night of demonstrations.
Fourteen people were arrested after multiple acts of vandalism and several assaults in Los Angeles' Crenshaw district, police said.
"The trial that we saw in Florida has ignited passions but we have to make sure that it will not ignite the city," Los Angeles mayor Eric Garcetti said.
In Oakland, California, at least one person was injured and police made nine arrests when a protest turned violent Monday night.
The Associated Press contributed to this report
This article originally appeared on guardian.co.uk
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