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Post by beth on Dec 10, 2009 5:07:42 GMT
This PNAC nonsense is completely and utterly ridiculous. It has nothing whatsoever do to with the decisions by the Bush Administration. It is just a wet dream of liberals (idiots all). Please stop it with the nonsense. Oh c'mon, das. I know it's important to you to put forward the fairy tale that says GWB was running the show - probably in order to buff up the legacy - but that the facade, not the reality.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 10, 2009 18:16:27 GMT
Do you mind sharing your opinion of the Neo-Conservatives and The Project for the New American Century? No conspiracy theory junk whatsoever. All well documented and publically embraced by the members. PNAC site Beth, I have total contempt for the neo-con project and the pnac bunch as well. Just because I don't believe in socialism doesn't mean I support a bunch of clowns like THAT lot either. Half the trouble with politics is that it's seen too often in terms of an either/or divide rather than a 'some of this, some of that.' Broadly speaking, I consider myself a liberal though I've been called everything from a right-wing anarchist to a left-wing fascist! According to a member of the religious right in America who I know from a Christian board where I'm one of the few voices of reason and moderation, my moral views make me (in her eyes at least) a conservative. According to another member of the same board, I'm a conscious servant of Satan and according to a tenth-rate politician on a different board, I'm a socialist (if not a Communist!) Mind you, as that particular clown described Jumbo as (I quote) 'a socialist hillbilly' I don't take any notice of his rants. What America needs (what EVERY country needs) is to follow the liberal values of tolerance, freedom, and compassion. If you do that you won't go far wrong. Unfortunately, the world's like Yeats described it in 'The Second Coming,' where: 'the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.' hey hon, it's really cool though. in order to insult me, someone has to be at least half as intelligent as i am, and those who make the feeble attempt to do so, demonstrate only that they're not qualified
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 10, 2009 18:19:29 GMT
This PNAC nonsense is completely and utterly ridiculous. It has nothing whatsoever do to with the decisions by the Bush Administration. It is just a wet dream of liberals (idiots all). Please stop it with the nonsense. i seem to recall already having told you that, when you choose to stick your head in the sand as you do, it does nothing but make your azz a great target for a boot, which is what you continuously get every time that you spout such idiocy which has been already conclusively proven to be lies
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 10, 2009 18:22:09 GMT
This PNAC nonsense is completely and utterly ridiculous. It has nothing whatsoever do to with the decisions by the Bush Administration. It is just a wet dream of liberals (idiots all). Please stop it with the nonsense. Oh c'mon, das. I know it's important to you to put forward the fairy tale that says GWB was running the show - probably in order to buff up the legacy - but that the facade, not the reality. but, but, but, das is entralled with the hallucinations of the deluded. look at the nutjobs that he idolizes, hannity, limbaugh, coulter. sad really, but hopefully, someday he'll grow up and get it right. i did, so there IS hope for him until then, reality is anathema to him and, reality and das, never the twain shall meet
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Post by beez0811 on Dec 10, 2009 23:34:03 GMT
I always enjoy your posts, BA, and I think it's great to have different perspectives on things. On the other hand, it's a bit naive to suggest that the Republicans are the good guys and the Democrats are the bad ones. There have been (and still are) good Democrats and bad Republicans just as there have been the opposite. Thank you! I lean more toward the right, but there are some bad Republicans and there are some decent Democrats. Our current situation isn't about party lines. Both major parties are at fault for this country being in this big mess.
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Post by beth on Dec 11, 2009 0:29:24 GMT
Quote: Thank you! I lean more toward the right, but there are some bad Republicans and there are some decent Democrats. Our current situation isn't about party lines. Both major parties are at fault for this country being in this big mess. I agree that in regard to various things, both parties are at fault. However, this thread is about PNAC and the Neo-Cons. These ideologues had created a scenario of conquering countries in the middle east - and especially Iraq - at least a decade before GWB took office. He was their puppet and their guarantee of war during his administration. The 9/11 attacks just gave them a vehicle with which to manipulate the American people. It made their plans easier to carry out through lies and determination. I'm sure the general fear and loathing in the U.S. in 2002 encouraged many Democrats to jump on board the war express, but I don't think you can actually blame the left for that. It was neo-con created, nurtured and sent forth with shock and awe. So, for the purpose of discussion in this space, the blame for everything on our plate is not the point. The Neo-Cons part in realizing their dream of war and conquest needs to be understood, because as sure as we ignore them, they'll regroup and do it again - or worse.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 11, 2009 0:33:58 GMT
Quote: Thank you! I lean more toward the right, but there are some bad Republicans and there are some decent Democrats. Our current situation isn't about party lines. Both major parties are at fault for this country being in this big mess. I agree that in regard to various things, both parties are at fault. However, this thread is about PNAC and the Neo-Cons. These ideologues had created a scenario of conquering countries in the middle east - and especially Iraq - at least a decade before GWB took office. He was their puppet and their guarantee of war during his administration. The 9/11 attacks just gave them a vehicle with which to manipulate the American people. It made their plans easier to carry out through lies and determination. I'm sure the general fear and loathing in the U.S. in 2002 encouraged many Democrats to jump on board the war express, but I don't think you can actually blame the left for that. It was neo-con created, nurtured and sent forth with shock and awe. So, for the purpose of discussion in this space, the blame for everything on our plate is not the point. The Neo-Cons part in realizing their dream of war and conquest needs to be understood, because as sure as we ignore them, they'll regroup and do it again - or worse. the only thing you have wrong is that pnac was hallucinated in 1997, and it only took the nutjobs four years to begin its implementation. dumbya was picked solely because he would go along with any bit of stupidity that they whispered in his ear
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Post by beth on Dec 11, 2009 1:12:42 GMT
True, Jim, but the neo-cons had been grouping and moving toward their long term goal longer than that - think all the way back to when Rumsfield and Cheney were in the Ford administration - maybe even earlier.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Dec 11, 2009 3:30:45 GMT
Jumbo - I don't idolize Rush Limbaugh or even like him. I do admire Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity because they mostly speak the truth. I can't stand left wing morons like Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, Noam Chomsky, and the idiots on the editorial page of the NY Times.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 12, 2009 12:20:35 GMT
Jumbo - I don't idolize Rush Limbaugh or even like him. I do admire Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity because they mostly speak the truth. I can't stand left wing morons like Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, Noam Chomsky, and the idiots on the editorial page of the NY Times. unfortunately, except for guns and crime, ann and sean wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in the azz
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 12, 2009 12:22:00 GMT
True, Jim, but the neo-cons had been grouping and moving toward their long term goal longer than that - think all the way back to when Rumsfield and Cheney were in the Ford administration - maybe even earlier. true, but if we want to go that route, it was actually ronnie who started the stupidity
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Dec 12, 2009 23:15:21 GMT
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Post by beth on Dec 13, 2009 0:38:52 GMT
das, I don't think there's anything you could have done to reinforce Jim's comment better than to actually post a link to on of AC's articles. Good Job!
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Dec 13, 2009 0:48:28 GMT
Thanks Beth. I agree that Ann is really great -- perhaps America's greatest living political commentator. Glad you agree.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 13, 2009 13:30:35 GMT
das, I don't think there's anything you could have done to reinforce Jim's comment better than to actually post a link to on of AC's articles. Good Job! true. don't you just love it when you have a box full of ammo, and a chap gives you his box also?
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 13, 2009 13:34:59 GMT
damm lad, we were doing so well on another thread. this lunacy is called shooting yourself in the azz. you know enough about guns to keep the barrel away from your azz. hell, this idiocy is pointing it at your HEAD
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 13, 2009 13:37:41 GMT
Thanks Beth. I agree that Ann is really great -- perhaps America's greatest living political commentator. Glad you agree. i'm glad that YOU agree that if coulter's writing was on paper, the ONLY thing it would be good for is the bottom of a bird cage. your adoration of intellectual, pardon the pun, degenerates gives you no credibility at all
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Post by clemiethedog on Dec 31, 2009 16:47:19 GMT
No, DAS, it means that because of Bush’s idiotic, short-sighted, and insane policy, there is no easy way out. That’s why it’s called a quagmire. This is just one of the many piles of dung that Bush and company left behind. The repercussions from that stolen election of 2000 will unfortunately reverberate for a few more years. The damage that Bush and the neo-cons inflicted on the nation and the world will take time to repair.
That said, I don’t agree with everything Obama is doing, but I hope that where we disagree I hope he’s right and I’m wrong. I felt the same way about Bush back in late 2001/early 2002, and was of course tremendously disappointed. I’d like to see the US declare victory and get the hell out. Starting with Iraq.
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Post by beth on Dec 31, 2009 17:30:51 GMT
Quote: That said, I don’t agree with everything Obama is doing, but I hope that where we disagree I hope he’s right and I’m wrong. I felt the same way about Bush back in late 2001/early 2002, and was of course tremendously disappointed. I’d like to see the US declare victory and get the hell out. Starting with Iraq.
Clemie, you obviously love our country and hope for the best, unlike Coulter, Limbaugh et al, who hope for the worst. I agree with your entire post 100% .
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jan 3, 2010 15:00:46 GMT
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