Jack the Ripper

[gabriel]

OK. Aplogies for Tumblety. That's a lot in one post for me to take in.

All right. No Jack had nothing personal against his victims and you're quite right. You could argue he went for type or they were just available. Or both, if you wanted.



OK this is Mitre Sq. Turn down the volume because I'll give you a better tour. The school wasn't there. That was warehouses. The whole square was enclosed by 3 storey warehouses except for where the flower beds and seats are. That was the row of vacant houses and that's where Eddowes was killed. You can see where the street sign says Mitre Sq and the dip in the curb. The street the people are walking up behind the sign, that is Mitre St. That's where one of the coppers came along on his patrol.

On the other side as you move along the school, you see the 4 vehicle stoppers. They mark the entrance to St James Place which was maybe half the size then that you see. Walk down turn direct left and there's the synagogue. The 3 Jewish witnesses including Lawende and Levy, saw Eddowes there with the man who had to be Jack.

Now you've got 2 coppers patrolling this area. One comes along where Eddowes was seen but doesn't go into the square. The other comes down Mitre St, flashes his lantern into the bit of the square he can see then leaves. This cop was looking to make sure the locks hadn't been disturbed on the coal holes and the doors.

Now they both patrolled in the 15 mins from when Eddowes was last seen until the copper on the Mitre St beat found her body. There was, to the best of my memory, one gas light working in the square and it was at the opposite end.

Jack worked in virtual darkness and rain. He picked his victim, she led him to the best place for him to work. He did what he did because he'd been interrupted with Stride less than an hour before.

2 coppers patrolling the area he chooses. MEPO are on full alert because of Stride's murder and are baying for his blood. You really don't think he chose to murder again to get attention, do you?

He couldn't help himself. That's why he went savage on Eddowes' body. He'd been stopped once that night and he had to kill. He couldn't help himself.

That was an epic. Sorry.

[♫anna♫]

Mar 1, 2010 7:22:33 GMT gabriel said:

OK. Aplogies for Tumblety. That's a lot in one post for me to take in.

All right. No Jack had nothing personal against his victims and you're quite right. You could argue he went for type or they were just available. Or both, if you wanted.



OK this is Mitre Sq. Turn down the volume because I'll give you a better tour. The school wasn't there. That was warehouses. The whole square was enclosed by 3 storey warehouses except for where the flower beds and seats are. That was the row of vacant houses and that's where Eddowes was killed. You can see where the street sign says Mitre Sq and the dip in the curb. The street the people are walking up behind the sign, that is Mitre St. That's where one of the coppers came along on his patrol.

On the other side as you move along the school, you see the 4 vehicle stoppers. They mark the entrance to St James Place which was maybe half the size then that you see. Walk down turn direct left and there's the synagogue. The 3 Jewish witnesses including Lawende and Levy, saw Eddowes there with the man who had to be Jack.

Now you've got 2 coppers patrolling this area. One comes along where Eddowes was seen but doesn't go into the square. The other comes down Mitre St, flashes his lantern into the bit of the square he can see then leaves. This cop was looking to make sure the locks hadn't been disturbed on the coal holes and the doors.

Now they both patrolled in the 15 mins from when Eddowes was last seen until the copper on the Mitre St beat found her body. There was, to the best of my memory, one gas light working in the square and it was at the opposite end.

Jack worked in virtual darkness and rain. He picked his victim, she led him to the best place for him to work. He did what he did because he'd been interrupted with Stride less than an hour before.

2 coppers patrolling the area he chooses. MEPO are on full alert because of Stride's murder and are baying for his blood. You really don't think he chose to murder again to get attention, do you?

He couldn't help himself. That's why he went savage on Eddowes' body. He'd been stopped once that night and he had to kill. He couldn't help himself.

That was an epic. Sorry.

Agreed he was interupted with the Stride murder, if we dismiss the theory that Liz Stride's murder was random and unrelated, but i'll go with the "canonical doctrines" for the sake of coherency.

jtr wanted the murder victim to appear shocking. The intestines are probably the part of the body that shock spectators the most and that's why he displayed them, not to express hostility towards the victim-my speculation of course. You could be right that he had a compulsion to kill. The surgical nature of the murders just makes me feel it was very deliberate, but a certain compulsion was also there. Still his cold logic in my opinion prevailed and he didn't make any of the mistakes that compulsive killers make-JMO!

[gabriel]

Agreed he was interupted with the Stride murder, if we dismiss the theory that Liz Stride's murder was random and unrelated, but i'll go with the "canonical doctrines" for the sake of coherency.

jtr wanted the murder victim to appear shocking. The intestines are probably the part of the body that shock spectators the most and that's why he displayed them, not to express hostility towards the victim-my speculation of course. You could be right that he had a compulsion to kill. The surgical nature of the murders just makes me feel it was very deliberate, but a certain compulsion was also there. Still his cold logic in my opinion prevailed and he didn't make any of the mistakes that compulsive killers make-JMO![/quote]

OK there's a lot for me to reply to but I'm not gonna go on and on.

Stride was a canonical victim. There was one and only one serial killer working the streets of the East End that night and it was Jack. He couldn't do Stride so he went hunting again.

If he really wanted to display his victims, let's review: Nicholls in the street OK but his 1st; Chapman in a back yard, no; Stride in a yard, no; Eddowes in the dark corner of a small square, no; Kelly in a tiny room, no.

Jack was not out to put his victims on display. He left them where he killed them and he killed them when he could.

You raise interesting questions about Kelly's room and the lock on the door.

[♫anna♫]

If jtr ever tried to truly conceal a victim's body i'd change my opinion. The gesture of closing and locking Mary Kelly's door does seem to contradict the wish to display.
We'll most likely never know for sure. I'm sure jtr, if he's in some hell somewhere, would enjoy the attention he still gets.

[gabriel]

Hi anna. Jack couldn't conceal any of his victims. Given where he hunted that wasn't possible so IMO that wasn't a factor he considered.

It is interesting comparing him with later serial killers. They do try to hide the bodies but Jack never did. Because he couldn't.

Kelly's room and the lock on the door. It's interesting. McCarthy, the landlord, was only a few feet away. Yes, that's how small these places were. But the Police broke the door down. You don't think the landlord would have had a key? Why didn't he produce it?

I've wondered about that. This guy was sitting in his chandler's shop at the front of the entrance to Miller's Ct. The other side of the entrance was a 'shed' where he stored things and where many homeless pros slept. Including, if I remember correctly, Eddowes and Chapman. Don't quote me on that.

McCarthy was running Miller's Ct as a brothel. I don't have any doubts about that. But why didn't he front up with a key to unlock Kelly's room? Probably because he wanted to maintain the facade of rooms to let. But then, the coppers must have known he was a pimp.

And there's the fact that Kelly was quite a few weeks behind on her rent and Barnett had left.

[♫anna♫]

I dunno Gabe,
Some serial killers keep the victim's remains on their property too. I still suspect there was a "drive to display the victims", but you could be right too.

It's a possibility that Mary Ann Nichols was murdered elsewhere, possibly even in the murderer's residence, and then her body was placed in Buck's Row. Of course she may have died from the strangulation and the ripper could have left the body until the blood pressure dropped to zero and then returned and cut the throat. We can only speculate. Did he have to go to his quarters to get the knife?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Nichols QUOTE:
The police surgeon, Dr Rees Ralph Llewellyn, expressed surprise at the small amount of blood at the crime scene - "about enough to fill two large wine glasses, or half a pint at the most". This was the first indication that a Ripper victim was not killed where her body was found. The amount of blood found by the body contrasted with the four pints estimated when a later victim was found and there was no doubt that she had been killed at the crime scene. Llewellyn was of the opinion that Nichols was already dead when her throat was cut - which would account for the small amount of blood - suggesting that that final wound had been inflicted for ritual purposes.

[gabriel]

Yeah, but anna, why didn't McCarthy go 'I have a key.." He and his guy went to the police to tell them Kelly was dead. The cops roamed around for hours, get the dogs, don't get the dogs, break the door down, don't break the door down.

The side window was broken and anyone who knew Kelly knew that.

Jack didn't know Kelly. He was a stranger.

[♫anna♫]

Mar 2, 2010 11:12:17 GMT gabriel said:

Yeah, but anna, why didn't McCarthy go 'I have a key.." He and his guy went to the police to tell them Kelly was dead. The cops roamed around for hours, get the dogs, don't get the dogs, break the door down, don't break the door down.

The side window was broken and anyone who knew Kelly knew that.

Jack didn't know Kelly. He was a stranger.

Well Gabe, getting back to the Mary Kelly murder we really don't know. I wish we had more information on the "witness" George Hutchinson. We can't disprove the Joseph Barnett=2nd Jack the Ripper theorists either. Barnett did have a key to Ms. Kelly's room. If jtr was a WhiteChapel resident it's very likely that his face at least was familar to Mary Kelly!

I'm sure the ripper would be delighted to see us going in circles.

Back to the Nichols murder in Buck's Row; it's a general rule that a serial killer's first victim is the one closest to the killer's living quarters. Peter Vronsky's book on serial killers confirms this as do professional profilers. Sure we can only speculate that Mrs. Nichols was murdered in jtr's dwelling by strangulation and then laid out on Buck's Row, with the throat cuting a final act. We have to explain the fact that Ms. Nichols didn't bleed much.

[gabriel]

Because the blood soaked into her clothing. I have no doubts she was killed in Buck's Row. No-one heard anything because he strangled her into silence then slit her throat. To me, there really is no mystery about that.

The only thing I ask myself is: did he luck into that way of killing or had he had a go at it before?

[♫anna♫]

Mar 3, 2010 7:46:26 GMT gabriel said:

Because the blood soaked into her clothing. I have no doubts she was killed in Buck's Row. No-one heard anything because he strangled her into silence then slit her throat. To me, there really is no mystery about that.

The only thing I ask myself is: did he luck into that way of killing or had he had a go at it before?

Morning Gabe!
I agree strangulation was the ripper's first act, but here the time between strangulation ( which in this case caused death ) and the throat slitting was apparently much longer than with the other victims!
The Coronor's report claims her clothes where not blood soaked. The unusually small amout of blood from the neck wound suggests she was dead for a while, before her throat was cut. I agree with you that the cut to the neck and the other mutilations were done where the body was found.

The theory that he strangled her in his residence or elsewhere and then brought the body to Buck's Row for the mutilation can't be disregarded. The Coroner also strengthens the left handed ripper theory.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Nichols QUOTE:

Inquest
The coroner at Nichols' inquest was Wynne Edwin Baxter. Inquest testimony as reported in The Times[3] stated:

"Five teeth were missing, and there was a slight laceration of the tongue. There was a bruise running along the lower part of the jaw on the right side of the face. That might have been caused by a blow from a fist or pressure from a thumb. There was a circular bruise on the left side of the face which also might have been inflicted by the pressure of the fingers. On the left side of the neck, about 1in. below the jaw, there was an incision about 4in. in length, and ran from a point immediately below the ear. On the same side, but an inch below, and commencing about 1in. in front of it, was a circular incision, which terminated at a point about 3in. below the right jaw. That incision completely severed all the tissues down to the vertebrae. The large vessels of the neck on both sides were severed. The incision was about 8 inches in length. the cuts must have been caused by a long-bladed knife, moderately sharp, and used with great violence. No blood was found on the breast, either of the body or the clothes.There were no injuries about the body until just about the lower part of the abdomen. Two or three inches from the left side was a wound running in a jagged manner. The wound was a very deep one, and the tissues were cut through. There were several incisions running across the abdomen. There were three or four similar cuts running downwards, on the right side, all of which had been caused by a knife which had been used violently and downwards. The injuries were from left to right and might have been done by a left-handed person. All the injuries had been caused by the same instrument."

[gabriel]

OK anna. You're going with the post mortem findings at the inquest.

If you read what the coppers who were at the crime scene say, it's a different story:

www.casebook.org/timeline.nichols.html

PC Thain and PC Neil placed the body in the ambulance, noticing that the underside of her clothes were sodden with blood. They also noticed that some blood, about 6" in diameter, had congealed underneath the body. Some of the blood had flowed into a near-by gutter.

Nichols was killed where she was found. I don't have any probelms with that scenario. A drunken woman, he strangles her into silence then slices her jugular. Jack's MO.
The left handed theory, I dunno. I've just always thought it was a ploy to make Jack even more, what can I say, special than he really was. Given where the victims were found, it was always by access from their right hand side. The arterial blood flow was always to the left, away from Jack. IMO he had to be right handed.

[♫anna♫]

Mar 4, 2010 7:49:32 GMT gabriel said:

OK anna. You're going with the post mortem findings at the inquest.

If you read what the coppers who were at the crime scene say, it's a different story:

www.casebook.org/timeline.nichols.html

PC Thain and PC Neil placed the body in the ambulance, noticing that the underside of her clothes were sodden with blood. They also noticed that some blood, about 6" in diameter, had congealed underneath the body. Some of the blood had flowed into a near-by gutter.

Nichols was killed where she was found. I don't have any probelms with that scenario. A drunken woman, he strangles her into silence then slices her jugular. Jack's MO.
The left handed theory, I dunno. I've just always thought it was a ploy to make Jack even more, what can I say, special than he really was. Given where the victims were found, it was always by access from their right hand side. The arterial blood flow was always to the left, away from Jack. IMO he had to be right handed.

Interesting Gabe!
I really don't know about the right handed, left handed speculation of the ripper. You may be right about the murder of Ms. Chapman in the Hanbury Street and that the ripper was kneeling on her right side and with the right hand cut her neck from left to right. But then with a different grip on the knife a lefty ripper may have gotten some pull at the risk of splattering his supporting right arm with blood, which would probably be holding the victim's head in place by grabbing the hair and pushing downward. I think we need a modern age expert on this. It does seem more logical that the ripper was using his right hand to cut the neck and the left hand to hold Ms. Chapman's head steady and push away, while the right hand was pulling with the knife.

I wish we could establish with certainty would hand jtr preferred. If he had formal schooling and was left handed he was most likely forced to write right handed as was the norm for left handed students, at the time. He could have been agile with both hands. With the Nichols murder he may have been kneeling in the opposite direction as was assumed at the inquest and pushing the knife instead of pulling it ( which the coroner assumed )through Ms. Nicole's body-the ripper was obviously physically strong. I think he positioned himself so that he wouldn't get splattered with blood and could keep a view of the direction where a witness could most likely appear.

Yeah the crime scene cops seem to contradict the inquest findings. A sloppy investigation by modern standards!

[gabriel]

Well of course. If Jack was roaming now in Whitechapel he'd be caught very quickly. The left handed idea has been around since the murders but it just doesn't make sense. Like I said, arterial spray to the left and onto palings, walls - even with Kelly the blood was on the left hand side of the bed away from Jack. And he had very little space to work with. A left hander would not have been able to do what he did in Kelly's room.

Gabriel

[♫anna♫]

Mar 4, 2010 11:42:37 GMT gabriel said:

Well of course. If Jack was roaming now in Whitechapel he'd be caught very quickly. The left handed idea has been around since the murders but it just doesn't make sense. Like I said, arterial spray to the left and onto palings, walls - even with Kelly the blood was on the left hand side of the bed away from Jack. And he had very little space to work with. A left hander would not have been able to do what he did in Kelly's room.

Gabriel

Well Gabriel; It seems like you're right about the ripper's right handedness, if the Casebook info is accurate. Apparently Dr. Llewellen, who did the autopsy of Ms. Nichols later retracted his statement about the ripper likely being left handed and admitted he was wrong.
Too bad we don't even know which suspects are left handed and could be exonerated.
forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=124044
www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-left.html

Wikipedia normally filters out misinformation, but of course there's so much misformation, fiction and legend surrounding this case that the facts will always be clouded.

I've never seen the film below about the Whitechapel murders, but in one scene the police are following a lead that the ripper is a secret agent from the Czar of Russia intent on toppling the British government with these murders. Well at least in the film Sherlock Holmes was there to dismiss that nonsense.

[gabriel]

Thanks for the trailer anna. I saw that film once, I think, a long time ago. A load of bunkum but it's fun. I'm sure Sherlock would have solved the case. Barabra Windsor as a victim - h'm. I think she would have hit Jack over the head with her handbag.

There have been quite a few films about Jack and Johnny Depp's From Hell is superb for visuals, atmosphere, costumes, sets. What a pity it's a load of rubbish.

[gabriel]

In 1888, in October, the middle of the Ripper's killing period, MEPO estimated there were about 1 200 street walkers in Whitechapel. And about 62 brothels. Not high class you won't catch any disease from us brothels or prostitutes. But the kind Jack targeted. Those just surviving. The only way the coppers could have caught Jack was to catch him in the act and although they brought coppers into Whitechapel from everywhere, the increasing length of time between killings brought complacency to the women he chose his victims from.

Every time they thought Jack had gone, he was back.

Until Millers Ct. Then, I believe, Jack imploded.

[♫anna♫]

Mar 7, 2010 6:53:57 GMT gabriel said:

In 1888, in October, the middle of the Ripper's killing period, MEPO estimated there were about 1 200 street walkers in Whitechapel. And about 62 brothels. Not high class you won't catch any disease from us brothels or prostitutes. But the kind Jack targeted. Those just surviving. The only way the coppers could have caught Jack was to catch him in the act and although they brought coppers into Whitechapel from everywhere, the increasing length of time between killings brought complacency to the women he chose his victims from.

Every time they thought Jack had gone, he was back.

Until Millers Ct. Then, I believe, Jack imploded.

Morning Gabe!
I like the idea of the ripper imploding, but if he's was comparable to the Zodiac killer, btk killer, etc. i'm afraid his descent to hell took a while longer than we would have liked.

I noticed even Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is on the "jtr suspect list"! What a farce! Anyone who wants to make money just has to locate say a male ancestor of anyone from Winston Churchill to Margaret Thatcher and try to get him on the suspect list and if they can get some good tabloid spin on it they'd make a bundle! The whole jtr industry is sickening!

[gabriel]

I really believe he did anna. Or someone else took him off the streets.

There is no way a killer like Jack would suddenly stop, especially after what he did to Kelly. He butchered that woman. Literally. There wasn't enough of her left to identify. Her boyfriend looked at her hairline and eyes, I think, to make an ID.

Jack didn't give up voluntarily. Either someone took him off the streets or he imploded.

Those are the only 2 explanations, to me, that make any sense.

[♫anna♫]

Mar 7, 2010 11:18:50 GMT gabriel said:

I really believe he did anna. Or someone else took him off the streets.

There is no way a killer like Jack would suddenly stop, especially after what he did to Kelly. He butchered that woman. Literally. There wasn't enough of her left to identify. Her boyfriend looked at her hairline and eyes, I think, to make an ID.

Jack didn't give up voluntarily. Either someone took him off the streets or he imploded.

Those are the only 2 explanations, to me, that make any sense.

You may be right about the jtr profile, Gabriel. If you are then i would suspect the police were even more incompetent than anyone suspects. Maybe the constable, who was supposed to patrol Mitre Square skipped a couple of rounds and allowed an "undisciplined jtr", who didn't care if he got caught to do his evil. I know that security guárds, who are expected to walk in circles the whole night skip their rounds too, if they think no one would notice.

[gabriel]

Mar 7, 2010 16:25:56 GMT ♫anna♫ said:

Mar 7, 2010 11:18:50 GMT gabriel said:

I really believe he did anna. Or someone else took him off the streets.

There is no way a killer like Jack would suddenly stop, especially after what he did to Kelly. He butchered that woman. Literally. There wasn't enough of her left to identify. Her boyfriend looked at her hairline and eyes, I think, to make an ID.

Jack didn't give up voluntarily. Either someone took him off the streets or he imploded.

Those are the only 2 explanations, to me, that make any sense.

You may be right about the jtr profile, Gabriel. If you are then i would suspect the police were even more incompetent than anyone suspects. Maybe the constable, who was supposed to patrol Mitre Square skipped a couple of rounds and allowed an "undisciplined jtr", who didn't care if he got caught to do his evil. I know that security guárds, who are expected to walk in circles the whole night skip their rounds too, if they think no one would notice.

I don't necessarily believe the coppers' time estimates. It wasn't a pleasant night to be out in and at 1.30 am I'm sure they were both feeling tired. I take what they said as approximations. But even so, Jack was damned lucky. Which goes back to him being a gambler. A risk taker. An undisclipined killer. I think the copper who came down St James' Place, if there had been sufficient light in Mitre Sq, would have caught Jack. I think Jack was there with Eddowes. She was probably dead or about to die. I believe Jack was there, in the dark, with her, and he watched the copper come and go, then he set to work.

Gabriel

[♫anna♫]

Mar 5, 2010 7:18:45 GMT gabriel said:

Thanks for the trailer anna. I saw that film once, I think, a long time ago. A load of bunkum but it's fun. I'm sure Sherlock would have solved the case. Barabra Windsor as a victim - h'm. I think she would have hit Jack over the head with her handbag.

There have been quite a few films about Jack and Johnny Depp's From Hell is superb for visuals, atmosphere, costumes, sets. What a pity it's a load of rubbish.

I posted the link to the "From Hell" Trailer here also on my oct. 14th, 11:03 PM post. All long threads inevitably get repetitive.

The money that a suspenseful fictious jtr thriller makes will usually put the serious and factual documentaries way behind. Even the ripper tours go with the hype, instead of following the facts to more banal conclusions.
biglinmarshall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=criminals&action=display&thread=804&page=4

[♫anna♫]

Mar 9, 2010 7:32:47 GMT gabriel said:

Mar 7, 2010 16:25:56 GMT ♫anna♫ said:

You may be right about the jtr profile, Gabriel. If you are then i would suspect the police were even more incompetent than anyone suspects. Maybe the constable, who was supposed to patrol Mitre Square skipped a couple of rounds and allowed an "undisciplined jtr", who didn't care if he got caught to do his evil. I know that security guárds, who are expected to walk in circles the whole night skip their rounds too, if they think no one would notice.

I don't necessarily believe the coppers' time estimates. It wasn't a pleasant night to be out in and at 1.30 am I'm sure they were both feeling tired. I take what they said as approximations. But even so, Jack was damned lucky. Which goes back to him being a gambler. A risk taker. An undisclipined killer. I think the copper who came down St James' Place, if there had been sufficient light in Mitre Sq, would have caught Jack. I think Jack was there with Eddowes. She was probably dead or about to die. I believe Jack was there, in the dark, with her, and he watched the copper come and go, then he set to work.

Gabriel

Hope your day's going well Gabe!
Obviously the constable wouldn't admit to skipping a round or two at Mitre Square, if he didn't want to risk his employment and cause a scandal! Yes he could have slowed his rounds down too.

The Mitre Square murder is my biggest problem with the undisciplined ripper theory, but your theory can be explained or more made more plausible with police inefficiency. Also if jtr was outwardly less able to approach the women as i assumed he could have knocked on Mary Kelly's door or waited for her to return home unescorted and in both cases forced his way in silencing her quickly.

We'll just never know.

[gabriel]

[quote author=anna board=criminals thread=804 post=19401
Hope your day's going well Gabe!
Obviously the constable wouldn't admit to skipping a round or two at Mitre Square, if he didn't want to risk his employment and cause a scandal! Yes he could have slowed his rounds down too.

The Mitre Square murder is my biggest problem with the undisciplined ripper theory, but your theory can be explained or more made more plausible with police inefficiency. Also if jtr was outwardly less able to approach the women as i assumed he could have knocked on Mary Kelly's door or waited for her to return home unescorted and in both cases forced his way in silencing her quickly.

We'll just never know. [/quote]


Well anna you're right. All big threads can get repetitive because you forget what you've posted.

There's no way Jack wouldn't have appeared normal. Especially towards the end and Kelly's murder. She was drunk but she wasn't off her brain. Jack may not have been presentable but he didn't appear likely to cause her harm.

Which is one question that's always intrigued me. Where did Jack keep his knife?

He approached his victims, they took him to quiet places. Where did the knife come from? Trousers' pockets? Unlikely. In his belt? H'm, not unless he seriously wanted to harm himself. Inside coat pocket? Same answer.

Jack must have been carrying something, parcel, bag, whatever, to keep the knife in.

[♫anna♫]

Nov 1, 2009 5:46:46 GMT gabriel said:

This is a photo of a 19th century amputation knife, owned by Donald Rumbelow. It gives an idea of the weapon Jack would have used.

Top of the day to you Gabriel!
Since you mentioned the knife i'm reposted your post where you show what was believed to be the type of knife the ripper used! Yes straping this knife on his body somewhere is an absurdity that maybe those who watched too many low budget undercover agent films would swallow-a long amputation knife??? A doctor would carry such a knife perhaps in a medical suitcase designed to carry such an instrument. This certainly isn't the type of knife that an uneducated, clumsy back street derelict would prefer, assuming it was obtainable. I don't believe butchers would use a knife like this either, but i could be wrong. As it stands the belief that jtr had surgical knowledge and skills remains very plausible!

[gabriel]

Mar 10, 2010 8:38:02 GMT ♫anna♫ said:

Nov 1, 2009 5:46:46 GMT gabriel said:

This is a photo of a 19th century amputation knife, owned by Donald Rumbelow. It gives an idea of the weapon Jack would have used.

Top of the day to you Gabriel!
Since you mentioned the knife i'm reposted your post where you show what was believed to be the type of knife the ripper used! Yes straping this knife on his body somewhere is an absurdity that maybe those who watched too many low budget undercover agent films would swallow-a long amputation knife??? A doctor would carry such a knife perhaps in a medical suitcase designed to carry such an instrument. This certainly isn't the type of knife that an uneducated, clumsy back street derelict would prefer, assuming it was obtainable. I don't believe butchers would use a knife like this either, but i could be wrong. As it stands the belief that jtr had surgical knowledge and skills remains very plausible!

God damn anna. I am smart! What more can I say? Except maybe it's time for Jack to disappear. No one reads, no one responds except you. You're right, it's repetitive. Maybe if more people had responded. Anyway, let Jack and his victims rest.

Thanks anna.

Gabriel. And Jack.