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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jun 25, 2016 1:51:06 GMT
Hi Menantol, Going over old ground repeatedly is not resolving anything, so it IS stupidity to be harping on about Islam etc. There are atrocities happening all the time & not always to do with Islam. It seems we as a race of people go out of our way, to squabble over the least thing, and as far as I can see wars only quench the hatred and resultant carnage for a short while, then off we go again filled with the same anger and pointless behaviour. We apparently have the ' warring tribe mentality ' of times past. SICK!!! SICK!!! SICK!!!
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jun 25, 2016 1:54:44 GMT
By the way, I am unable to see videos at any time.!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 2:01:55 GMT
To Whoever, This discussion on past History is already sillines in progress, you just haven't noticed.!!! When it has become a TIT FOR TAT response, then it is already stupid to the extreme.!!! Let's rather put our heads together and think of a way to resolve the dilemma of there being so much hatred & violence in this day and age. We know most situations have their beginning in the past but surely we don't need a History lesson to be reminded of that? It is monotonous or aren't you aware? I want what is happening today to be resolved, and what is not happening? The world is full of problems of all kinds, let's touch on some of them. The way I see it, without love, we will always have wars, so this is really what we should be discussing. Give us more LOVE!!! LOVE!!! LOVE!!! I’m not sure Scottish Lassie, but at a guess it appears that you aren’t getting the answers you like or want. That is okay, but what you seem to want may not have any foundation in reality and therefore be meaningless in at least some environments. Others have tried the glad-hand of love in response to acts of others. And when dealing with those of similar views, it can have positive affect. However, there are some situations where it will not work and can simply make things worse. There are those who want you to believe a specific way and anything short of that they will not accept. There are people who view the acts of others as not representative of what they want, and therefore such acts are considered weakness and not worthy of recognition. Ask the Tibetan Monks. The gentle people who approached things as you suggest, today, except for those who ran away, they are no more. Their love of the invaders was no more than a wisp of smoke that floated away into nothingness. Yet when these same invaders faced others who stood up to them millions of people were saved. It isn’t that love cannot be affective but rather that it must be applied in the right way at the right time. When you are dealing with those who would actually prefer to kill you unless you give up all you believe in and follow them, your love is wrongly applied and detrimental to your own beliefs. You can water a rock all you want but it won’t grow no matter how strongly you wish it to do so. What is suggested is not tit for tat, it is recognizing reality, standing on what you believe and acting in a way to support your beliefs. History is the teacher of reality. But you don’t have to learn that history and instead you can just become that wisp of smoke. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 2:30:10 GMT
Hi Menantol, Going over old ground repeatedly is not resolving anything, so it IS stupidity to be harping on about Islam etc. There are atrocities happening all the time & not always to do with Islam. It seems we as a race of people go out of our way, to squabble over the least thing, and as far as I can see wars only quench the hatred and resultant carnage for a short while, then off we go again filled with the same anger and pointless behaviour. We apparently have the ' warring tribe mentality ' of times past. SICK!!! SICK!!! SICK!!! Going over old ground? Hardly! This is a matter of facing reality or not facing reality. People can hide from reality seeking only to live with the shadow of reality flickering on the cave wall with the long gone Greeks. Or, we can face reality and actually go out among the people in the ways they live. Look at what has been accomplished in a mere 30,000 years or so. Billions of people have shelter, billions of people are fed. Here we are talking with each other nearly instantaneously from opposite sides of the earth. We’ve place people deep in the oceans, and on the moon. We can travel to any place in the world in hours. We meet and talk with people who have very different ways of believing. Yes, we fight, and we also make peace. We save people from the most terrible diseases. We have the knowledge of the ages in untold libraries around the world. We have developed plants and animals to serve our needs in ways that only a few short years ago were not even thought of. We can take water and convert it into energy and make it available to people in ways less expensive and easier than the making of a fire in the wild. The positive aspects of what we do, of what we have done, far outweigh the negatives. You may not want to look at history, and certainly there is no reason that you have to do so. But that history, has put the cloths on your back, the food in your mouth. Built a place to protect you from the weather. You do not have to sweat and strain every waking hour just to gain a morsel of food and die before the age of forty, and you have leisure time to do, whatever you want to do. All those things and more, you have and that history informs you of it. But certainly you don’t have to bother with history. You don’t have to bother with others who have very different and alien ways of life relative to yours. You can even complain about what you don’t like and don’t want to hear about, and you can choose to hold hands with Alice and go down the rabbit hole. People have provided all of this for you and history tells you all about it. But don’t you don’t have to view that reality, because if you just turn around there is Alice within the looking glass beckoning you to join her in that myth. But I’ll stay in the reality and the history and mix my sweat with the sweat of others. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jun 25, 2016 2:32:55 GMT
Hi,Menantol,We are never as wisps of smoke but as Soul, we are a unit of Awarenss.!!! which is quite different. As long as there is retaliation, we will never have peace and that is what most of us are hoping for.
What is reality? Isn't it just how people decide to behave and keep going on in like manner,surely we can change? We don't have to keep pontificating along the same lines, we surely must learn at some point.?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 2:49:40 GMT
Hi Menantol, We are never wisps of smoke, but as Soul, we are a unit of Awarenss.!!! which is quite different. As long as there is retaliation, we will never have peace and that is what most of us are hoping for. What is reality? Isn't it just how people decide to behave and keep going on in like manner,surely we can change? We don't have to keep pontificating along the same lines, we surely must learn at some point.? You really don't get it do you Scottish Lassie? The point to the wisp of smoke was a metaphor to say that because a people acted similarly to what you suggest, ‘they don’t exist anymore.’ You can accept this extermination as an acceptable to your spiritual world, but people have to live in reality. It is ‘not’, it is ‘not’ retaliation, but people standing and protecting their beliefs. They didn’t do that but rather acted as you desire and they no longer exist. By people standing for their beliefs of their culture we gain peace. I know that is something which you cannot understand but it is in the history of our world. If you believe that we are merely pontificating, that there is no attempt to define our beliefs or to exchange ideas, if that is what you believe and if that actually reflects the world, then all is lost and we are only waiting to pass as the other extinct species have done. You continue to speak about being a sick way of acting, but you are focused on the wrong thing, your perspective is the sick one in that it means giving up and just melting into a puddle protoplasm and never working to achieve anything. That is not human. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jun 25, 2016 3:05:58 GMT
Hi Menantol, I'm glad that you appreciate these things, as I do every waking moment of my life. There is not a day passes that I am not aware of these blessings, all enjoyed because of the hard work and inventiveness of those who went before us.
Warring with each other will never be a good trait, so why concentrate on it? Now you are talking.!!! You have hit the nail on the head!!! SEE!!!? You have miraculously learned a lesson and seemingly because we were both intelligent enough to to realise that discussing the past in regard to violence and hatred was not resolving anything.!!!
The amenities that we enjoy each day is all thanks to hard working, creative and caring people and life is more pleasurable as a result. That is the difference.!!! Hatred resulting in war only wrecks and causes unhappines. Is this what we want? We definitely have to change the way that we think and behave. I am very aware of that fact, I live in this world.!!!
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♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 25, 2016 5:23:53 GMT
Could be she was referring to one of the posted videos which pointed out the fact that Muslims took many more black African slaves and trekked them north than were ever shipped to the Americas. It was also reported that black male slaves were often castrated to prevent them from reproducing. Hi Bush Admirer, I guess MIGHT IS ALWAYS RIGHT, by your standards. As far as I am concerned, only love ever has a chance, certainly not hate. TIT for TAT behaviour just goes ON & ON or haven't you noticed?
Here we're talking about killers and this lady is sick, if she wants to bypass all the more deserving people in the universe and make some sadistic killer the center of attention and love. That's not love this is sick.
Maybe our iamjumbo can clear up any misconceptions you have. He lived through the Woodstock hippy era where maybe this myth was born that it's somehow cool to shower some vicious killer like Charles Manson with love and you'll get a positive result.
The leftist media is doing exactly that by trying to silence the critics of homicidical Islam to appease and love these pro murder jihadists who need to live in their Middle East Islam nations behind closed borders and not here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 11:49:02 GMT
Hi Menantol, I'm glad that you appreciate these things, as I do every waking moment of my life. There is not a day passes that I am not aware of these blessings, all enjoyed because of the hard work and inventiveness of those who went before us. Warring with each other will never be a good trait, so why concentrate on it? Now you are talking.!!! You have hit the nail on the head!!! SEE!!!? You have miraculously learned a lesson and seemingly because we were both intelligent enough to to realise that discussing the past in regard to violence and hatred was not resolving anything.!!! The amenities that we enjoy each day is all thanks to hard working, creative and caring people and life is more pleasurable as a result. That is the difference.!!! Hatred resulting in war only wrecks and causes unhappines. Is this what we want? We definitely have to change the way that we think and behave. I am very aware of that fact, I live in this world.!!! Scottish Lassie, you are truly unbelievable. You have not understood anything I posted. You have taken what I have offered and attempted to turn it into something I never said, never meant, in fact, tried to turn it into something I find detrimental to developing the best in and for people. Your way of looking at things would destroy civilization and turn it over to the people who are those who take and take and take and never contribute. Cultural foundations are important. Knowing the histories of cultures, including those who destroy and take and kill and knowing the wars, is important to learn, to grow and to know when to stand on the values of culture. To know when cultures clash and when it is the ethical and moral time to go to war. Doing as you suggest simply leads us as lemmings to the edge of the cliff and voluntarily committing cultural suicide. No, you didn’t understand anything and no you don’t live in the reality of the world because you only seem to want to learn about some make believe version of it. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jun 25, 2016 11:58:20 GMT
Hi Anna, we learn as children at our Mother's knee. Does a child know what is good or bad behaviour? We as parents set the rules as to what we consider right or wrong.
You could ofcourse smack or chastise a child for the misbehavingof your rules. You could also give the child a hug and saywhilst still holding the child, " You know that I love you darling, but I don't want you ever behaving like that again. It isn't very nice." then go on to explain why you thought that was so.
The child now understands that it's behaviour is wrong in your eyes, but that him/her is still loved. That way, the child learns good behaviour from bad behaviour without the trauma of thinking that it is unloved. This is the difference between conditional love and unconditional love. I will only love you if you do things my way which is wordly love. God's love is : I love you, but I don't love the way that you are behaving. Aren't you more likely to want to please someone if you know that they love you?
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jun 25, 2016 12:18:05 GMT
Hi Menantol, reality is how you make it, and instead of thinking the best of people we have decided that people will always behave badly so what is the sense of behaving differently? People HAVE been known to turn over a new leaf. It looks like you for one have given up on that score, I haven't. All people have to do is get rid of the hatred and fill their hearts with love instead. The forces of love and hate exist in this world side by side. We make the choice as to which one is important to us.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jun 25, 2016 12:50:34 GMT
Hi Menantol, According to your posts, You must be the most misunderstood member of this forum. I mean everything that I say and regardless as to what you may think is true, I have not misunderstood or misconstrued anything that you have posted.
When things are happening and it is obvious that there is no apparent solution to the problem you immediately cease from that discussion. BigLin was not going to change her mind no matter how much info you gave her to the contrary. So you were never ever going to have a solution to the problem, therefore it was pointless as far as I was concerned and I was fed up with the repetition.
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♫anna♫
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The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 25, 2016 12:56:24 GMT
Hi Anna, we learn as children at our Mother's knee. Does a child know what is good or bad behaviour? We as parents set the rules as to what we consider right or wrong. You could ofcourse smack or chastise a child for the misbehavingof your rules. You could also give the child a hug and saywhilst still holding the child, " You know that I love you darling, but I don't want you ever behaving like that again. It isn't very nice." then go on to explain why you thought that was so. The child now understands that it's behaviour is wrong in your eyes, but that him/her is still loved. That way, the child learns good behaviour from bad behaviour without the trauma of thinking that it is unloved. This is the difference between conditional love and unconditional love. I will only love you if you do things my way which is wordly love. God's love is : I love you, but I don't love the way that you are behaving. Aren't you more likely to want to please someone if you know that they love you? True you can discipline your own child in a loving manner and perhaps my example wasn't good. We have to set borders and laws to protect our communities from those who are bent on destroying our civilisation. In the USA one is free to contact and pander to incarcerated murderers. In DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) 's example we have these homicidal jihadists who a government representative claims we can heal with love. I say close the borders to such immigrants and deport the ones that are here. Let them live in their cruel, medieval middle east societies that they wish to establish in our societies. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jun 25, 2016 13:41:45 GMT
Hi Anna, the way a child is treated when it is young, is the very reason that as adults their behaviour is either good or bad, but with rehabilitation, adults can see the error of their ways and have a better regard for others as a result. Never in a million years will that happen unless they are treated with respect. If they are treated in a way that mirrors the way that they themselves behaved then you haven't a hope in hell of ever rehabilitating that person. Commonsense tell you this, so it is important that they are treated with respect whether you peronally think that they don't deserve to be treated kindly. Love and respect is the only way that change will ever take place.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jun 25, 2016 13:59:18 GMT
Exactly correct Anna. Great cartoon too that makes a solid point --> you can't appease fanatics who hate you just because you are an unbeliever and not a Muslim. Heck, they even hate you if you're a Muslim but a different branch of Islam. There are many examples in history where misguided leaders tried appeasement when dealing with evil fanatics. The most publicized would be British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's failed policy of appeasing the Nazis. This simply meant war was inevitable. Appeasement was an indulgence in wishful thinking at the price of principle. The message Hitler received was that he'd be able to get away with doing whatever he wanted. Anyone who thinks playing nice with groups like ISIS can lead to peaceful coexistence is badly misjudging militant Islam. They don't want peaceful coexistence. That result would be entirely unacceptable to them. They want everyone, worldwide, to convert to Islam or die. You either accept forced conversion to Islam or they cut off your head. They don't offer any other options unless you're an attractive young woman, in which case they might allow you to become a sex slave. They want your head, not your love  |
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jun 25, 2016 14:45:53 GMT
Could be she was referring to one of the posted videos which pointed out the fact that Muslims took many more black African slaves and trekked them north than were ever shipped to the Americas. It was also reported that black male slaves were often castrated to prevent them from reproducing. Hi Bush Admirer, I guess MIGHT IS ALWAYS RIGHT, by your standards. As far as I am concerned, only love ever has a chance, certainly not hate. TIT for TAT behaviour just goes ON & ON or haven't you noticed?  |
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jun 25, 2016 14:49:01 GMT
Hi Anna, the way a child is treated when it is young, is the very reason that as adults their behaviour is either good or bad, but with rehabilitation, adults can see the error of their ways and have a better regard for others as a result. Never in a million years will that happen unless they are treated with respect. If they are treated in a way that mirrors the way that they themselves behaved then you haven't a hope in hell of ever rehabilitating that person. Commonsense tell you this, so it is important that they are treated with respect whether you peronally think that they don't deserve to be treated kindly. Love and respect is the only way that change will ever take place. Good point about children but entirely irrelevant when it comes to fanatic Jihadist terrorists. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 15:06:36 GMT
Exactly correct Anna. Great cartoon too that makes a solid point --> you can't appease fanatics who hate you just because you are an unbeliever and not a Muslim. Heck, they even hate you if you're a Muslim but a different branch of Islam. There are many examples in history where misguided leaders tried appeasement when dealing with evil fanatics. The most publicized would be British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's failed policy of appeasing the Nazis. This simply meant war was inevitable. Appeasement was an indulgence in wishful thinking at the price of principle. The message Hitler received was that he'd be able to get away with doing whatever he wanted. Anyone who thinks playing nice with groups like ISIS can lead to peaceful coexistence is badly misjudging militant Islam. They don't want peaceful coexistence. That result would be entirely unacceptable to them. They want everyone, worldwide, to convert to Islam or die. You either accept forced conversion to Islam or they cut off your head. They don't offer any other options unless you're an attractive young woman, in which case they might allow you to become a sex slave. They want your head, not your love I believe you to be quite correct in your assessment BushAdmirer. However, it isn’t that such as groups as ISIS exist, they have always existed, but rather, it is that there are people and groups who do not want to face such a reality. The existence of those not wanting to face reality almost assures that we will have to face war at some point. |
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jun 25, 2016 21:58:57 GMT
Here is a video that really nails it.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jun 25, 2016 22:42:22 GMT
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 26, 2016 3:49:35 GMT
Hi Anna, the way a child is treated when it is young, is the very reason that as adults their behaviour is either good or bad, but with rehabilitation, adults can see the error of their ways and have a better regard for others as a result. Never in a million years will that happen unless they are treated with respect. If they are treated in a way that mirrors the way that they themselves behaved then you haven't a hope in hell of ever rehabilitating that person. Commonsense tell you this, so it is important that they are treated with respect whether you peronally think that they don't deserve to be treated kindly. Love and respect is the only way that change will ever take place.
I'm puzzled why all the more deserving people in the world are bypassed and so many people wish to shower their love on the worst of the worst. I'm not preaching hate by any means. I simply believe that we need to give these radical Islamists their space within their own Islamic nations and break contact with them entirely.
We don't have a bond ( or shouldn't have ) to these jihadists who hate anyone who doesn't submit to their version of Islam completely. You seem to be a caring person so why not show some LOVE to children, handicapped people or the 99% who haven't made evil choices. People who enjoy beheadings and spreading terror should be isolated, contained and ignored. If they are in our country they should be deported to their country.  Read the Muslim scriptures which forbid friendships with disbelievers.
www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/friends-with-jews-christians.aspx
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jun 26, 2016 15:02:14 GMT
Hi Anna, the way a child is treated when it is young, is the very reason that as adults their behaviour is either good or bad, but with rehabilitation, adults can see the error of their ways and have a better regard for others as a result. Never in a million years will that happen unless they are treated with respect. If they are treated in a way that mirrors the way that they themselves behaved then you haven't a hope in hell of ever rehabilitating that person. Commonsense tell you this, so it is important that they are treated with respect whether you peronally think that they don't deserve to be treated kindly. Love and respect is the only way that change will ever take place.
I'm puzzled why all the more deserving people in the world are bypassed and so many people wish to shower their love on the worst of the worst. I'm not preaching hate by any means. I simply believe that we need to give these radical Islamists their space within their own Islamic nations and break contact with them entirely.
We don't have a bond ( or shouldn't have ) to these jihadists who hate anyone who doesn't submit to their version of Islam completely. You seem to be a caring person so why not show some LOVE to children, handicapped people or the 99% who haven't made evil choices. People who enjoy beheadings and spreading terror should be isolated, contained and ignored. If they are in our country they should be deported to their country. Read the Muslim scriptures which forbid friendships with disbelievers.
www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/friends-with-jews-christians.aspx
While on the subject of children, check out this video of a Gaza Kindergarten graduation ceremony. According to America's Attorney General (Loretta Lynch), “all we need is love.” This video clearly shows how deeply embedded terrorism is within Palestinian society. I found it completely disgusting but very educational. It shows us the type of people we are dealing with. This is who they are. Maybe we don’t *want* to have anything to do with it, but they want to deal with US! So, it’s happening. Face it. In fact, they want to kill us – simply because we are not Muslims like them. If we don’t wake up to the fact that we are in a real, shooting war – a cultural and religious war – whether we want to be or not, and start responding properly, we will LOSE. We will be overrun. Parts of Europe are *already* close to that. That they are so evil, malicious, and callous enough to train even their youngest children to become killers is shocking, of course, but the video proves it is happening. These fanatics are functionally the same as a rabid dog. Whether with two legs or four, it’s the same thing. You have two choices: either you allow it to run around uncontrolled, biting everybody it wants to, whenever it chooses – or else you kill it. You can’t negotiate with a rabid dog. They don’t respond to reason. They don’t operate from intelligence; only raw, violent emotion. If you don’t appreciate that, then you WILL be bitten. You are morally and legally entitled to defend yourself as a person. As a nation, we are likewise entitled to mount a common defense against religious hatred that is attacking our very way of life as lethally as it can. Recognize that and elect leaders who also recognize that fact – who then can organize and LEAD our common defense. Our feckless Kenyan Muslim “Community Organizer-in-Chief” won’t even *name* our adversaries correctly. He’s not part of the solution, but rather part of the problem! But he will be gone soon. The big Question is who we shall pick as his successor? The “Benghazi Babe” who slept while her Libyan Ambassador was being tortured and sodomized in the street before having his throat cut by these same brand of Islamic Terrorists? Or The Donald – who doesn’t even want to let any more Muslims into our country unless/until we can vet them properly. The Trumpster wasn’t *my* first choice as the race began, but given only the choices I have remaining now – either him or Hillary – that’s not really a choice at all. This election is a textbook definition of a “No Brainer.” iamjumbo ♫anna♫ @menantol deyana@admin@gibby |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 16:23:38 GMT
Thank you BushAdmirer for this example of Islamic culture. And for me that is the point. That is, their culture is very different from that of the West, so much so that the two are not compatible. I believe that it is a mistake to consider them as being “ . . . . so evil, malicious, and callous enough to train even their youngest children to become killers . . . “ Certainly, from the perspective of the West as it stands today, it is reasonable to consider them in this context, but it is not reasonable from the perspective of their cultural values. In their culture these are ethical and moral teachings. Further, if we continue to judge by the standards of Western culture, we will continue to come up with the wrong assessments and therefore the wrong answers.
At the most fundamental levels these two cultures are so different as to not be compatible. The idea of a government combined with a single religion is a concept left in the past of Western culture, not so with Islam. There in Islam, religion is for all intents and purposes the government. Within that religious government the individual is subject to the will of the government and is controlled through the combination of government and religion produced Sharia Law, that is, freewill of the Individual doesn’t exist in the sense of Individual Free will in the Western cultures. From that perspective the things they do, such as the training of children in the video, are perfectly legal, ethical, and moral. In that context they are not ‘evil, malicious, and callous’ but doing the right thing. On the one hand they can teach their children to be these killing machines and then ethically follow that by declaring themselves as peace loving peoples. This is a concept outside of Western cultural values.
To understand them (even a little) we (those in the West) should look at them from their cultural perspective. Then judging their Culture relative to the Western Cultures, is the next correct step. By doing that, it should easily become apparent that these two cultures are not compatible and each consider themselves as ethical, moral, and peaceful.
From such an exercise it is quite clear that the disharmony between the two cultures for these past 1,400 years has been in fact a war. A never ending war by the Islamic cultures and a sometimes recognize war by the Western cultures. However, it is a war where the West has failed to recognize (except periodically) that these peoples which have been near barbaric tribes have evolved into tribes armed to some degree as in the Western nations. That arming of these tribal peoples has been by the West because the West wanted resources controlled by these Islamic societies and it was to the advantage of the West to arm them in the fighting among Western nations. Now, it is nearing the time to ‘pay the piper.’
One of the first decisions to be made by Western societies is, is the immigration of these Islamic peoples into Western nations something valuable or negative to the West? That this question should even have to be asked is because the Western nations have devalued (by some political movements) the foundations of Western values. Unless the West gets its cultural values back, this war will continue until some truly major event happens, such as Iran using a nuclear weapon in Israel. In such an event it is quite possible that Iran will cease to exist. Sadly, it does not, even at this late date, have to come to such a resolution. Instead the West can simple stand on its cultural values and stop the movement of Islam into the West, and in so doing make sure that the people and the governments, of Islam understand that they have crossed a line and they will have to stand down. Short of that we will have war.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jun 26, 2016 17:09:36 GMT
Hi Menantol, Why does Big Lin see everything so differently? She says she has personal experience of Islamic beliefs, which was being discussed earlier. I have pity for all people who suffer in anyway, which includes people of the Muslim faith.
As has been said, young children of the Islamic faith are taught to be who they become as adults.That is why I feel sorry for them. If a subject cannot be resolved? Why keep discussing it? Which was what was being done.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jun 26, 2016 17:46:56 GMT
Thank you BushAdmirer for this example of Islamic culture. And for me that is the point. That is, their culture is very different from that of the West, so much so that the two are not compatible. I believe that it is a mistake to consider them as being “ . . . . so evil, malicious, and callous enough to train even their youngest children to become killers . . . “ Certainly, from the perspective of the West as it stands today, it is reasonable to consider them in this context, but it is not reasonable from the perspective of their cultural values. In their culture these are ethical and moral teachings. Further, if we continue to judge by the standards of Western culture, we will continue to come up with the wrong assessments and therefore the wrong answers. At the most fundamental levels these two cultures are so different as to not be compatible. The idea of a government combined with a single religion is a concept left in the past of Western culture, not so with Islam. There in Islam, religion is for all intents and purposes the government. Within that religious government the individual is subject to the will of the government and is controlled through the combination of government and religion produced Sharia Law, that is, freewill of the Individual doesn’t exist in the sense of Individual Free will in the Western cultures. From that perspective the things they do, such as the training of children in the video, are perfectly legal, ethical, and moral. In that context they are not ‘evil, malicious, and callous’ but doing the right thing. On the one hand they can teach their children to be these killing machines and then ethically follow that by declaring themselves as peace loving peoples. This is a concept outside of Western cultural values. To understand them (even a little) we (those in the West) should look at them from their cultural perspective. Then judging their Culture relative to the Western Cultures, is the next correct step. By doing that, it should easily become apparent that these two cultures are not compatible and each consider themselves as ethical, moral, and peaceful. From such an exercise it is quite clear that the disharmony between the two cultures for these past 1,400 years has been in fact a war. A never ending war by the Islamic cultures and a sometimes recognize war by the Western cultures. However, it is a war where the West has failed to recognize (except periodically) that these peoples which have been near barbaric tribes have evolved into tribes armed to some degree as in the Western nations. That arming of these tribal peoples has been by the West because the West wanted resources controlled by these Islamic societies and it was to the advantage of the West to arm them in the fighting among Western nations. Now, it is nearing the time to ‘pay the piper.’ One of the first decisions to be made by Western societies is, is the immigration of these Islamic peoples into Western nations something valuable or negative to the West? That this question should even have to be asked is because the Western nations have devalued (by some political movements) the foundations of Western values. Unless the West gets its cultural values back, this war will continue until some truly major event happens, such as Iran using a nuclear weapon in Israel. In such an event it is quite possible that Iran will cease to exist. Sadly, it does not, even at this late date, have to come to such a resolution. Instead the West can simple stand on its cultural values and stop the movement of Islam into the West, and in so doing make sure that the people and the governments, of Islam understand that they have crossed a line and they will have to stand down. Short of that we will have war. There are almost always two sides to every argument. This one is no different. My sister in law is a nurse having held important positions in a major teaching hospital environment. She points out that she has known a number of Muslim immigrant, or U.S. born children of Muslim immigrant, doctors and other medical professionals who are well integrated into American society. She thinks it is a generational thing and that they become 'Americanized' by the second or third generation. They may give lip service to Islam and frequent a mosque, but they are more into American than Islamic culture. My response to her is that it is a numbers game. If 999, or 9,999, fully integrate without causing problems, but one becomes the Orlando shooter or the San Bernardino shooter, there still remains a huge problem. From a governmental policy perspective, should we focus on the majority good results or the exceptionally bad results? Even in this forum, respected members like Gibby and Big Lin tell us that they know Muslims who are well integrated into our society and good people. They're not making that up. I'm sure it is true. But if we let in 1000 Syrian refugees, or 10,000, or 100,000 do we risk admitting a few mass murderers? |
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biglinmarshall.proboards.com/thread/7917/bits-pieces-magazine-issue-2024
Nov 4, 2024 17:39:29 GMT
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biglinmarshall.proboards.com/thread/7917/bits-pieces-magazine-issue-2024
Nov 4, 2024 17:39:29 GMT
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yay! 
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Nov 2, 2024 17:09:05 GMT
thanks
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