Muslim Extremists demand Pamela Geller's Execution

[Big Lin]

No, BA, the site you referenced is an Islamophobic nutjob sites.

It does NOT have solid irrefutable data.


And it's sad to see you believing right-wing propaganda when I don't believe propaganda by left or right.

A lie is a lie whoever tells it.

And I'm assuming you don't regard official police reports from European police forces or the FBI as being any kind of 'solid irrefutable data' which of course it IS.


I'd say you were in denial if you can't see that the deliberate demonization of Islam is a cynical ploy by the right wingers to give them an excuse to start wars and restrict people's liberties.

On a personal level, I KNOW about terrorism; one of my family members (now dead) used to be in ETA.

So don't try and tell me I'm naive or in denial.

I know what a terrorist is.

[DAS (formerly BushAdmirer)]

Hello Lin - The site I referenced is simply posting the facts. They're certainly not a right wing nut job site.

I can see no reason to admit even one more Muslim to the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, or the USA. I just don't see any positives and I do see lots and lots of negatives. That's not discrimination, it is realism. If we deny the problems that Muslims bring into our countries then we're being very foolish and basing out decisions on fantasy.

Kicking out the Muslims who are already here is a more difficult decision. However, if there are Muslims demanding Sharia Law, they should be escorted directly to the nearest airport, provided with a one way ticket to some hellhole like Somalia, and kissed goodbye.

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2016 17:02:49 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

Lin - You're a very smart lady with plenty of real world experience and I respect your views. However, this is one issue that you've gotten very wrong.

Please refer to www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/site/the-list.aspx which is a website that collects and documents information on Islamist terrorist acts. They list specific terrorist acts that were religiously motivated and they are careful to curate the list. They don't want ordinary crimes to be included, only those that had an Islamic religious motivation. I believe their site is well documented and very credible. Have a look yourself.

Here is an introductory excerpt from their site. You will find lists of actual attacks referenced on the left side of their home page along with constantly updated statistics.

This list of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims since 9/11/01 (a rate of about five a day) is incomplete because not all such attacks are picked up by international news sources, even those resulting in multiple loss of life. 

These are not incidents of ordinary crime involving nominal Muslims killing for money or vendetta.  We only include incidents of deadly violence that are reasonably determined to have been committed out of religious duty - as interpreted by the perpetrator.  Islam needs to be a motive, but it need not be the only factor.

BushAdmirer, I decided to use the link you provided to TROP and I also used the five links provided by Big Lin. I have other sources of information in which I have confidence as they are primarily scholarly works which explain and verify my own experiences. I must say they are more closely a lined with what you have offered.



There are some things which seem to provide a foundation for making a decision. For example, Islam has spread throughout the Mideast. It has done so almost exclusively by the sword, the spilling of blood, killing. A land that once was people by Hebrews and Christians was forcefully taken by those of Islam. Islam initiated the attacks against Christianity and the West.



So too was the Islamic move to Europe attacking, killing, taking over European lands and cities as well as attacking cities and taking slaves into the Southern shores of England. Islam brought war to the Mideast, to Europe, to England.



The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) has now officially become a global Islamic caliphate. It took 14 months for its leader, who is known as Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, to set himself up as a ruler “by order of God.” He is not only the “commander of the faithful” now, but also the caliph-at-large, and the “successor” of Prophet Mohammad. The historical declaration took place on the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan of the year 1435 AH (2014 AD).



The method of achieving the Caliphate is by Jihad of which there is more than a single type. That Jihad that most Westerners are familiar with is that of war, the actual fighting to achieve the borders of the Caliphate. However, not all Muslims act in this way and instead support Jihad by supplying resources, by writing support, and by lying to Kafir to make them unsuspecting of the fighting Jihad.



This is made more difficult to understand because of the two differing major sects of Islam, the Shia and the Sunni, who disagree about and fight for the leadership.



And this has also been compromised due to some Muslims who have become familiar with the West and have found (at least some of) Islam wanting. But to make that transition they must give up at least some of the Islamic foundation so that they can accept Individual Free Will (of the West) and that is a difficult conversion because in so doing they dance with the danger of becoming apostate.



But in the end Islam has brought war to the West and for 1,400 years they have not given up the goal to convert the world to Islam, by conversion if possible, by the sword if needed but to convert the world to Islam without exception.

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2016 17:02:49 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

Lin - You're a very smart lady with plenty of real world experience and I respect your views. However, this is one issue that you've gotten very wrong.

Please refer to www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/site/the-list.aspx which is a website that collects and documents information on Islamist terrorist acts. They list specific terrorist acts that were religiously motivated and they are careful to curate the list. They don't want ordinary crimes to be included, only those that had an Islamic religious motivation. I believe their site is well documented and very credible. Have a look yourself.

Here is an introductory excerpt from their site. You will find lists of actual attacks referenced on the left side of their home page along with constantly updated statistics.

This list of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims since 9/11/01 (a rate of about five a day) is incomplete because not all such attacks are picked up by international news sources, even those resulting in multiple loss of life. 

These are not incidents of ordinary crime involving nominal Muslims killing for money or vendetta.  We only include incidents of deadly violence that are reasonably determined to have been committed out of religious duty - as interpreted by the perpetrator.  Islam needs to be a motive, but it need not be the only factor.

BushAdmirer, here is another link: which defines the attacks of Islam on Europe and the lasting legacy.

[♫anna♫]

Jun 5, 2016 0:08:24 GMT Big Lin said:

And as 94% of terrorism is NON-MUSLIM why do some people obsess over the 6%?

www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30883058

wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Terrorism


Dearest Big Lin
These charts may be inaccurate and not up to date. I don't know where you get this 6% figure unless you include all non religious and non political acts of violence or rather crime in general worldwide.

[DAS (formerly BushAdmirer)]

Terrorism is Islam's ugly baby. ISIL, Al Queda, and the like wouldn't exist if Islam didn't exist. It is the incubator.

The fact that Islam doesn't turn all Muslims into terrorists is good, but that doesn't excuse its role as incubator of terrorism.

[blc]

Jun 4, 2016 19:46:37 GMT Big Lin said:

Jun 4, 2016 14:23:04 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Iamjumbo, I'm not surprised!!!

Look, Kronks and I disagree on almost everything.

But of course it's just a LIE to claim that 'the goal of every true Muslim' is to kill the infidels.

They might wish - just as Christians are supposed to wish for the Conversion of the Jews and the Second Coming - for the conversion of the rest of the world but they do NOT believe that the only way to do that is through murder.

Most of what the so-called 'radical Muslim/IS etc mob' claim to be Islam is specifically FORBIDDEN by the Quran.

They are NOT Muslims; they are Satanists PRETENDING to be Muslims because their whole intention is to DESTROY Islam.

And by the way 94% of terrorism in the world is NON-MUSLIM.

So why obsess with the 6% carried out by people pretending to be Muslim?
]
The only logical answer is bigotry.

And by the way 94% of terrorism in the world is NON-MUSLIM.

So why obsess with the 6% carried out by people pretending to be Muslim?

Where are you getting these numbers from? They look a bit misleading and incorrect and are you sure those numbers apply worldwide and not just for the USA?

Since January, 2010 the Islamic propaganda outlet, Loonwatch.com, has prominently posted an article with the title "All Terrorists are Muslim… except the 94% that aren’t." Although not saying exactly who it is that believes "all terrorists are Muslim", the gist of the piece is that an FBI report from seven years ago concluded that the vast majority of attacks have nothing to do with Islam.

As Loonwatch puts it:



Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

Only 6% of terror attacks are by Muslims

7% of terrorism is by Jewish extremists

66% of terror attacks are by leftists and Latinos

This would appear to defy common sense. Reports of bombings, shootings, stabbings and even beheadings by terrorists cross the newswire each day. Some are indeed the work of communist groups or nationalists, but the vast majority are clearly the product of Islamic extremists who kill in the name of religion.

Loonwatch is playing a couple of tricks here - the biggest being that they are drawing on domestic data only. In other words, when they say that 94% of terrorists aren't Muslim, they actually mean in the United States, where terror attacks are relatively rare and Muslims make up only 1% of the population.

So, if we ignore the overwhelming bulk of attacks across the globe, Muslims are "only" six times more likely to commit acts of terror than the general population. The numbers get even worse for Loonwatch on closer examination.

As it turns out, much of the FBI list includes "violence" against property rather than people. In fact, the formula used by the agency to define terrorism is somewhat fuzzy. While it includes tree-spiking and bank robbery, for example, it somehow omits the Arizona assassination of a Sunni cleric by Iranian terrorists in 1980, the 1990 murder of Rabbi Kahane by an Islamic radical at a New York hotel, and even the killing of two CIA agents by a Muslim extremist at Langley in 1993.

When Americans hear the word 'terrorism', however, what comes to mind isn't vandalism, but rather those acts of genuine violence that are intended to cause loss of life. So, how do we focus on these incidents and filter out the rest?

Well, perhaps the best way of knowing whether terrorists are serious about killing people is if they actually do. Since Muslims and non-Muslim terrorists have equal opportunity to kill, Loonwatch shouldn’t object to an analysis of only those attacks which cause deaths. What does the data have to say when we exclude non-lethal attacks?

Even by the FBI’s curious standard, the sort of truly violent terrorism that most concerns Americans is extremely rare in the United States. Only 29 attacks on their list of incidents between 1980 and 2005 resulted in actual death. Of these, Islamic extremists were responsible for 24%, accounting for 2,981 kills, while non-Muslim attackers racked up 196.

Thus, what the FBI report is really saying is that a demographic which makes up only 1% of the American population accounts for one-fourth of all deadly terror attacks in the U.S. and 94% of related casualties! (The 94% statistic is somewhat ironic because it is the same figure than Loonwatch is touting to dispel concerns). The Jewish population in the U.S. is more than twice that of Muslims, but there were only three so-called Jewish attacks during the entire 25 years (all by the "Jewish Defense League") with a total of three killed.

Since 2005, there have been at least six additional deadly attacks that would probably qualify as terrorism in the U.S. even to the FBI. One was the 2012 shooting by a skinhead that resulted in six deaths at a Sikh temple and the other five were by Muslims, which left 19 dead. This means that since 1980, Muslims in the U.S. have been 35 times more likely to commit terror than all other demographics combined.

Now, the point of all this isn’t to "prove" that any particular person is dangerous. The numbers are quite low and it is unlikely that the Muslim you know personally is all that different from you, much less plotting mass murder. A person's nominal religion is not grounds for thinking a certain way about them or for reaching conclusions that are based on anything other than their own words or deeds.

What we are demonstrating is how Muslim propaganda groups like Loonwatch and CAIR knowingly manipulate the public into false conclusions about Islam using disingenuous methods. They are also dishonest when they try to confuse people into thinking that criticism of Islamic bigotry means hatred for Muslims.

Taqiyya may be a part of Islamic law, but a noble cause never requires a lie.

Then again... how noble can a religion really be when it's most vocal members are far more concerned about image rather than the dead and dismembered victims of its most devout?

www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/loonwatch-94-percent.aspx

[Big Lin]

Jun 6, 2016 14:15:36 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

Terrorism is Islam's ugly baby. ISIL, Al Queda, and the like wouldn't exist if Islam didn't exist. It is the incubator.

The fact that Islam doesn't turn all Muslims into terrorists is good, but that doesn't excuse its role as incubator of terrorism.

Any belief system that is held to fanatically can incubate terror. The history of the human race shows that consistently.

Marxists, fascists, conservatives, atheists and religious believers have all demonstrated intolerance and brutality (and many of them continue to do so).

But for what it's worth terrorism is specifica]ly CONDEMNED by the Quran.

Islam is the excuse used by terrorists just as 'a Jewish conspiracy' was the excuse used by Nazi terrorists.

Terrorists who kill in the name of Islam are no more Muslims than the Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations, the Lord's Resistance Army or the IRA were Christians.

They USE religion as a smokescreen for their brutality just as Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot used Marxism.

Islam is NOT a monolithic belief system; that's just propaganda.

Nor is it an incubator of terrorism; it is simply the EXCUSE that scumbags use to defend the indefensible.

[DAS (formerly BushAdmirer)]

Jun 6, 2016 20:51:06 GMT Big Lin said:

Jun 6, 2016 14:15:36 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

Terrorism is Islam's ugly baby. ISIL, Al Queda, and the like wouldn't exist if Islam didn't exist. It is the incubator.

The fact that Islam doesn't turn all Muslims into terrorists is good, but that doesn't excuse its role as incubator of terrorism.

Any belief system that is held to fanatically can incubate terror. The history of the human race shows that consistently.

Marxists, fascists, conservatives, atheists and religious believers have all demonstrated intolerance and brutality (and many of them continue to do so).

But for what it's worth terrorism is specifica]ly CONDEMNED by the Quran.

Islam is the excuse used by terrorists just as 'a Jewish conspiracy' was the excuse used by Nazi terrorists.

Terrorists who kill in the name of Islam are no more Muslims than the Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations, the Lord's Resistance Army or the IRA were Christians.

They USE religion as a smokescreen for their brutality just as Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot used Marxism.

Islam is NOT a monolithic belief system; that's just propaganda.

Nor is it an incubator of terrorism; it is simply the EXCUSE that scumbags use to defend the indefensible.

Hello Lin - I'm afraid we must disagree on this one issue.

If someone would ask me to make a list of all the good things about Islam, I'd end up with a blank piece of paper after studying on the question for three or four days.

On the other hand, if someone would ask me to list all the bad things about Islam I could write a book in a day.

No plusses, all minuses.

Islam is a disgrace to humanity. Please don't be an apologist for it. There are no positives, only negatives.

I'll admit that I don't think there are any positives for any religion. All are 100% bogus fantasies invented by man.

Islam just happens to be the worst of a very bad lot. Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Scientology, Mormons, Protestants, etc. are bad too, but not equally bad. The difference is that they're not incubators for terrorism.

[Big Lin]

Jun 6, 2016 23:29:57 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

Jun 6, 2016 20:51:06 GMT Big Lin said:

Any belief system that is held to fanatically can incubate terror. The history of the human race shows that consistently.

Marxists, fascists, conservatives, atheists and religious believers have all demonstrated intolerance and brutality (and many of them continue to do so).

But for what it's worth terrorism is specifica]ly CONDEMNED by the Quran.

Islam is the excuse used by terrorists just as 'a Jewish conspiracy' was the excuse used by Nazi terrorists.

Terrorists who kill in the name of Islam are no more Muslims than the Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations, the Lord's Resistance Army or the IRA were Christians.

They USE religion as a smokescreen for their brutality just as Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot used Marxism.

Islam is NOT a monolithic belief system; that's just propaganda.

Nor is it an incubator of terrorism; it is simply the EXCUSE that scumbags use to defend the indefensible.

Hello Lin - I'm afraid we must disagree on this one issue.

If someone would ask me to make a list of all the good things about Islam, I'd end up with a blank piece of paper after studying on the question for three or four days.

On the other hand, if someone would ask me to list all the bad things about Islam I could write a book in a day.

No plusses, all minuses.

Islam is a disgrace to humanity. Please don't be an apologist for it. There are no positives, only negatives.

I'll admit that I don't think there are any positives for any religion. All are 100% bogus fantasies invented by man.

Islam just happens to be the worst of a very bad lot. Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Scientology, Mormons, Protestants, etc. are bad too, but not equally bad. The difference is that they're not incubators for terrorism.

www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/overcoming-historical-amnesia_b_4135868.html

I could add others too - for example, the introduction of rhyme into poetry.

Islamophobia is a disgrace to humanity. I am not and never have been an apologist for ANY kind of intolerance or terrorism.

If you seriously believe there are 'only negatives' around Islam then you really have been so totally brainwashed that you can't look at the world clearly.

And frankly Christianity - particularly the fundo nutjobs, the sects and the Catholic Church - HAVE been and many still ARE 'incubators of terrorism.' So has Hinduism - the Tamil Tigers; Buddhism - Pol Pot and the fundo Buddhists in Sri Lanka; and so on and so on.

The FACTS show that MOST terrorism is NON-MUSLIM.

Why do you continue to believe LIES rather than the truth?

[♫anna♫]

Are Christian extremists anywhere making a single death threat against a particular Muslim or anyone for that matter?

[iamjumbo]

Jun 4, 2016 19:46:37 GMT Big Lin said:

Jun 4, 2016 14:23:04 GMT Scottish Lassie said:

Hi Iamjumbo, I'm not surprised!!!

Look, Kronks and I disagree on almost everything.

But of course it's just a LIE to claim that 'the goal of every true Muslim' is to kill the infidels.

They might wish - just as Christians are supposed to wish for the Conversion of the Jews and the Second Coming - for the conversion of the rest of the world but they do NOT believe that the only way to do that is through murder.

Most of what the so-called 'radical Muslim/IS etc mob' claim to be Islam is specifically FORBIDDEN by the Quran.

They are NOT Muslims; they are Satanists PRETENDING to be Muslims because their whole intention is to DESTROY Islam.

And by the way 94% of terrorism in the world is NON-MUSLIM.

So why obsess with the 6% carried out by people pretending to be Muslim?
]
The only logical answer is bigotry.

damn hon, you STILL have everything exactly 180 from reality. repeatedly, you have been shown by the qu'ran to be totally wrong.

however, being the wonderful chap that i am, i will once again enlighten you. you really do need to read the qu'ran yourself instead of just listening to your friend and the pc nutjobs. NOTHING, nada, zip, zilch that you said here has an iota of truth to it.

FACT!! the qu'ran EXPLICITLY commands muslims to murder and enslave every non muslim that they encounter.

1. talking about every non muslim

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land



five, of the 109, simple,self explanatory commands given to ALL muslims. there is NOTHING difficult to comprehend about them. they mean exactly the same thing today as they did when the baby raper wrote them.


why, WHY for god's sake, do you continue the lies about islam when the irrefutable proof is readily available to you? you are more intelligent than that

[iamjumbo]

Jun 4, 2016 19:48:52 GMT Big Lin said:

Jun 3, 2016 9:01:21 GMT iamjumbo said:

thankfully, the u.s. is not so barbaric as to have imbecilic hate speech laws.

nonetheless, only the most abjectly stupid would even consider trying to claim that anything pam geller has ever said is hate speech.
the absolute FACT is that the truth is not, by definition, EVER hate speech.

get a grip laddie

And the absolute FACTS are that an opinion is not, by definition, a FACT and that a lie is never, by definition, ever the truth.

that is precisely why i am so astounded that you spout totally false opinions instead of some semblance of facts, and repeatedly spew the outright lies when the reality is right in front of you, and those of us who DO comprehend reality constantly show you the truth.

[iamjumbo]

Jun 4, 2016 23:44:50 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

100% endorse IamJumbo for his views on Islam and Muslims. He's spot on with his comments here.

all that those of us who know the truth, and have a grasp of reality, can do is teach those who have been brainwashed by the lies and fantasies promulgated by the pc lunatics.
sadly, we can only give them the truth. i can only turn on the light for them. i cannot, and wouldn't if i could, force them to open their eyes and see the light. if they choose to keep their eyes closed, and their heads in the sand, with no regard for the reality of the world around them, the bruises and contusions that they incur from stumbling in the darkness is totally on them.
we can only pity them, and pray that they get it right before they are held accountable for the lies that they spread

[iamjumbo]

Jun 5, 2016 0:08:24 GMT Big Lin said:

Jun 4, 2016 23:44:50 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

100% endorse IamJumbo for his views on Islam and Muslims. He's spot on with his comments here.

Well, I wouldn't dream of denying anyone their right to be wrong.

But when opinions are presented as if they were facts then alarm bells ought to start ringing.

And someone who speaks out of knowledge and experience should be given more credit than when someone speaks out of ignorance and lack of experience.

And as 94% of terrorism is NON-MUSLIM why do some people obsess over the 6%?

Bigotry? Being brainwashed by those who want to stir up hate?

Or simple ignorance of the facts?

the TRUTH about your loony 94% lie:

Loonwatch is playing a couple of tricks here - the biggest being that they are drawing on domestic data only. In other words, when they say that 94% of terrorists aren't Muslim, they actually mean in the United States, where terror attacks are relatively rare and Muslims make up only 1% of the population.

As it turns out, much of the FBI list includes "violence" against property rather than people. In fact, the formula used by the agency to define terrorism is somewhat fuzzy. While it includes tree-spiking and bank robbery, for example, it somehow omits the Arizona assassination of a Sunni cleric by Iranian terrorists in 1980, the 1990 murder of Rabbi Kahane by an Islamic radical at a New York hotel, and even the killing of two CIA agents by a Muslim extremist at Langley in 1993.

Even by the FBI’s curious standard, the sort of truly violent terrorism that most concerns Americans is extremely rare in the United States. Only 29 attacks on their list of incidents between 1980 and 2005 resulted in actual death. Of these, Islamic extremists were responsible for 24%, accounting for 2,981 kills, while non-Muslim attackers racked up 196.

Thus, what the FBI report is really saying is that a demographic which makes up only 1% of the American population accounts for one-fourth of all deadly terror attacks in the U.S. and 94% of related casualties! (The 94% statistic is somewhat ironic because it is the same figure than Loonwatch is touting to dispel concerns). The Jewish population in the U.S. is more than twice that of Muslims, but there were only three so-called Jewish attacks during the entire 25 years (all by the "Jewish Defense League") with a total of three killed.

Since 2005, there have been at least six additional deadly attacks that would probably qualify as terrorism in the U.S. even to the FBI. One was the 2012 shooting by a skinhead that resulted in six deaths at a Sikh temple and the other five were by Muslims, which left 19 dead. This means that since 1980, Muslims in the U.S. have been 35 times more likely to commit terror than all other demographics combined.

What we are demonstrating is how Muslim propaganda groups like Loonwatch and CAIR knowingly manipulate the public into false conclusions about Islam using disingenuous methods. They are also dishonest when they try to confuse people into thinking that criticism of Islamic bigotry means hatred for Muslims.

Taqiyya may be a part of Islamic law, but a noble cause never requires a lie.

Then again... how noble can a religion really be when it's most vocal members are far more concerned about image rather than the dead and dismembered victims of its most devout?


Note: A 2013 study by the Brookings Institute found that 77% of terror attack plots in the United States were motivated by Islam. A 2015 study found that 99.5% of all suicide attacks worldwide were also motivated by Islam.



the problem is that you have everything backward hon. I speak from knowledge. you refuse to gain any knowledge about the subject. you have absolutely NO credibility on the subject of islam.

you are quite knowledgeable about a great many things. for the life of me, i can't understand why you refuse to learn the truth about the fools that follow the pedophile

[Deleted]

Subjective Islam – Objective Islam
Jul 25 2013 | by Bill Warner

Some people don’t want to learn about Islam from someone who was not a Muslim, a professor or some other “approved” source of information. How can someone without a degree in Islam be an expert on it?
The question is who can we trust to tell the truth about Islam? The answer you will get by going by talking to Muslims has the advantage that if you choose the right country and the right Muslim, you will get the “right” answer. But if you ask the “wrong” Muslim (usually called an extremist or radical Muslim) you will get the answer you won’t like. Is Saudi Arabia or Turkey the right country to go to? Is a Wahabbi imam or a Islamist scholar of Islam the right person to ask? Subjective Islam is a polling problem. Who you ask determines the answer you get. Apologists for Islam ask the “expert” who gives them the answer they want—Islam is wonderful.
But there is one source of knowledge about Islam that is not subjective. If you talk to Muslims, you will find that there is one thing that they all agree on: There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger. This statement is the beginning of Islamic objective knowledge, since 100% of all Muslims believe it.
Allah is found in the Koran. When you read and understand the Koran, you find that there are 91 verses that command all Muslims to imitate Mohammed, the divine human prototype. We find out what Mohammed did and said in order to imitate him in two places – Mohammed’s biography, the Sira, and his Traditions, the Hadith. And that is all there is to know about Islamic doctrine:
• Koran
• Sira
• Hadith
Objective truth: if it is in the Koran, Sira and Hadith, it is Islam. Islam is Allah and Mohammed, no exceptions. So skip asking a Muslim, going to a Muslim country or asking a professor. For objective answers, ask Mohammed and Allah. In other words, read the Koran, Sira and Hadith. The problem is that no one reads them is because they used to be difficult. Today are available because simple scientific methods have produced versions that anybody can read. For one example, see the Trilogy Project.
Statistical methods reveal that there are two Korans, Mecca and Medina, and that there are two Mohammeds. In Mecca the Koran is religious, but only a 150 people became Muslims in 13 years time. Later in Medina, Mohammed became a politician and a jihadist, and the Koran becomes jihadic and political.
There are two Islams, two sets of facts – Mecca and Medina. Preaching the religion in Mecca was a failure. But, Mohammed averaged an event of jihad every 6 weeks for the last 9 years of his life, and by the time he died, every Arab was a Muslim. So if you want peaceful Islam go to Mecca. If you want politics and violence, go to Medina. Islam is a dualistic system where peace and jihad exist side by side. Dualism allows “experts” to get what they want, a peaceful Islam in Mecca. See, there it is in the Meccan Koran—peace. Just don’t ever mention Medina and the news is good.
However, the only trustworthy experts are Mohammed and Allah, found in Islam’s texts. They will tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So, here is the rule to grade your experts: listen to those who quote Mohammed and Allah. And ask the expert: What else does Islam teach about this? Get the whole truth, the whole story.
Better yet, since the Koran, Sira and Hadith have been made readable by the average person, read the texts and become an expert yourself by quoting Allah and Mohammed. You will bring objective Islam to your world.
________________________________________
www.politicalislam.com

[DAS (formerly BushAdmirer)]

Bingo!

[DAS (formerly BushAdmirer)]

Jun 8, 2016 11:09:53 GMT iamjumbo said:

Jun 4, 2016 19:48:52 GMT Big Lin said:

And the absolute FACTS are that an opinion is not, by definition, a FACT and that a lie is never, by definition, ever the truth.

that is precisely why i am so astounded that you spout totally false opinions instead of some semblance of facts, and repeatedly spew the outright lies when the reality is right in front of you, and those of us who DO comprehend reality constantly show you the truth.

Facts and opinions are indeed different things, but the most valid opinions are those based on the facts rather than those based on a belief system like a religion or values you might hold such as political correctness (PC). In my experience, the PC crowd purposely disavows facts and distorts the facts in an effort to support their warped views. One of the favorite tactics of the PC people is to label anyone who disagrees with their biased views using a derogatory term like Racist, Islamophone, Homophone, Climate Denier, etc.

Most people who get labelled as Islamophobic by these people are just confronting them with common sense, which they don't want to hear.

[DAS (formerly BushAdmirer)]

Once again, I would refer you to www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/site/the-list.aspx which is a website that collects and documents information on Islamist terrorist acts. They list specific terrorist acts that were religiously motivated and they are careful to curate the list. They don't want ordinary crimes to be included, only those that had an Islamic religious motivation. I believe their site is well documented and very credible.

These are the facts. If you can't accept these facts, then you are just in denial.

[Big Lin]

Jun 8, 2016 17:44:49 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

Once again, I would refer you to www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/site/the-list.aspx which is a website that collects and documents information on Islamist terrorist acts. They list specific terrorist acts that were religiously motivated and they are careful to curate the list. They don't want ordinary crimes to be included, only those that had an Islamic religious motivation. I believe their site is well documented and very credible.

These are the facts. If you can't accept these facts, then you are just in denial.

BA, I have given you the facts more than once.

Since a) you appear unable to distinguish between opinion, propaganda and fact; b) you simply refuse to accept facts that contradict your own belief system, then the obvious conclusion is that you are just in denial.

Sorry.

[Big Lin]

Here, by the way, are the figures for European terrorism. 98% of it NON-MUSLIM (figures from Europol)

metro.co.uk/2015/01/15/the-number-of-terrorists-who-are-actually-religiously-motivated-will-surprise-you-5023616/

[DAS (formerly BushAdmirer)]

Jun 8, 2016 21:49:57 GMT Big Lin said:

Jun 8, 2016 17:44:49 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

Once again, I would refer you to www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/site/the-list.aspx which is a website that collects and documents information on Islamist terrorist acts. They list specific terrorist acts that were religiously motivated and they are careful to curate the list. They don't want ordinary crimes to be included, only those that had an Islamic religious motivation. I believe their site is well documented and very credible.

These are the facts. If you can't accept these facts, then you are just in denial.

BA, I have given you the facts more than once.

Since a) you appear unable to distinguish between opinion, propaganda and fact; b) you simply refuse to accept facts that contradict your own belief system, then the obvious conclusion is that you are just in denial.

Sorry.

Hi Lin - i must say that I'm disappointed with your reply. You are ignoring the facts and claiming otherwise. The relevant facts would be the list of Muslim atrocities committed daily worldwide. These attacks are carefully and truthfully documented on www.thereligionofpeace.com That's all that really matters.

These people are animals without a conscience. They deserve zero sympathy and zero tax payer support. England, France, and the rest of Europe should be kicking them out upon arrival.

Religious Muslims are incapable of integrating in western society. They need to be kicked out and sooner rather than later. They bring many negatives with them and zero positives. We're all better off without them.

Iamjumbo is 100% correct in his assessment. He's nailed it with his posts here. I especially like the fact that he didn't allow for any wiggle room. Facts are facts and they don't deserve to be massaged, altered, or spun.

Trying to find and report on a good side of Islam is a fool's errand. That's because there is no good side.

[iamjumbo]

Jun 8, 2016 13:02:23 GMT @menantol said:

Subjective Islam – Objective Islam
Jul 25 2013 | by Bill Warner

Some people don’t want to learn about Islam from someone who was not a Muslim, a professor or some other “approved” source of information. How can someone without a degree in Islam be an expert on it?
The question is who can we trust to tell the truth about Islam? The answer you will get by going by talking to Muslims has the advantage that if you choose the right country and the right Muslim, you will get the “right” answer. But if you ask the “wrong” Muslim (usually called an extremist or radical Muslim) you will get the answer you won’t like. Is Saudi Arabia or Turkey the right country to go to? Is a Wahabbi imam or a Islamist scholar of Islam the right person to ask? Subjective Islam is a polling problem. Who you ask determines the answer you get. Apologists for Islam ask the “expert” who gives them the answer they want—Islam is wonderful.
But there is one source of knowledge about Islam that is not subjective. If you talk to Muslims, you will find that there is one thing that they all agree on: There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger. This statement is the beginning of Islamic objective knowledge, since 100% of all Muslims believe it.
Allah is found in the Koran. When you read and understand the Koran, you find that there are 91 verses that command all Muslims to imitate Mohammed, the divine human prototype. We find out what Mohammed did and said in order to imitate him in two places – Mohammed’s biography, the Sira, and his Traditions, the Hadith. And that is all there is to know about Islamic doctrine:
• Koran
• Sira
• Hadith
Objective truth: if it is in the Koran, Sira and Hadith, it is Islam. Islam is Allah and Mohammed, no exceptions. So skip asking a Muslim, going to a Muslim country or asking a professor. For objective answers, ask Mohammed and Allah. In other words, read the Koran, Sira and Hadith. The problem is that no one reads them is because they used to be difficult. Today are available because simple scientific methods have produced versions that anybody can read. For one example, see the Trilogy Project.
Statistical methods reveal that there are two Korans, Mecca and Medina, and that there are two Mohammeds. In Mecca the Koran is religious, but only a 150 people became Muslims in 13 years time. Later in Medina, Mohammed became a politician and a jihadist, and the Koran becomes jihadic and political.
There are two Islams, two sets of facts – Mecca and Medina. Preaching the religion in Mecca was a failure. But, Mohammed averaged an event of jihad every 6 weeks for the last 9 years of his life, and by the time he died, every Arab was a Muslim. So if you want peaceful Islam go to Mecca. If you want politics and violence, go to Medina. Islam is a dualistic system where peace and jihad exist side by side. Dualism allows “experts” to get what they want, a peaceful Islam in Mecca. See, there it is in the Meccan Koran—peace. Just don’t ever mention Medina and the news is good.
However, the only trustworthy experts are Mohammed and Allah, found in Islam’s texts. They will tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So, here is the rule to grade your experts: listen to those who quote Mohammed and Allah. And ask the expert: What else does Islam teach about this? Get the whole truth, the whole story.
Better yet, since the Koran, Sira and Hadith have been made readable by the average person, read the texts and become an expert yourself by quoting Allah and Mohammed. You will bring objective Islam to your world.
________________________________________
www.politicalislam.com

that is the problem. NO ONE, who tries to claim that islam is peaceful has bothered to read the qu'ran. the imans who do, do it simply to lie and confuse the fools loking to be brainwashed.
the qu'ran is NOT hard to read. also, you have to read the right qu'ran, what the pedophile actually wrote. reading the false translations by those who are trying to fool everyone is NOT reading the qu'ran.

NO ONE who has not read the entire qu'ran and the hadiths has ANY credibility

[iamjumbo]

Jun 8, 2016 17:43:29 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

Jun 8, 2016 11:09:53 GMT iamjumbo said:

that is precisely why i am so astounded that you spout totally false opinions instead of some semblance of facts, and repeatedly spew the outright lies when the reality is right in front of you, and those of us who DO comprehend reality constantly show you the truth.

Facts and opinions are indeed different things, but the most valid opinions are those based on the facts rather than those based on a belief system like a religion or values you might hold such as political correctness (PC). In my experience, the PC crowd purposely disavows facts and distorts the facts in an effort to support their warped views. One of the favorite tactics of the PC people is to label anyone who disagrees with their biased views using a derogatory term like Racist, Islamophone, Homophone, Climate Denier, etc.

Most people who get labelled as Islamophobic by these people are just confronting them with common sense, which they don't want to hear.

BINGO!! the nutjobs that run around screaming tolerance are the most intolerant bigots to ever walk the earth. facts and reality are anathema to them

[iamjumbo]

Jun 8, 2016 17:44:49 GMT DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) said:

Once again, I would refer you to www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/site/the-list.aspx which is a website that collects and documents information on Islamist terrorist acts. They list specific terrorist acts that were religiously motivated and they are careful to curate the list. They don't want ordinary crimes to be included, only those that had an Islamic religious motivation. I believe their site is well documented and very credible.

These are the facts. If you can't accept these facts, then you are just in denial.

for sure, that is about the most authoritative site out there