♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 17, 2016 20:56:41 GMT
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 17, 2016 23:20:47 GMT
Why do people have to be so one-dimensional? How many people are simply heroes or simply villains?
Though it sticks in my craw to say it, even Hitler and Stalin did SOME good things.
And when you're talking about historical figures you also have to take the time they lived in into account.
Now as you're well aware, Anna, between 1618 and 1648 the Thirty Years War was going on in Europe. It achieved levels of brutality not seen in a war before the twentieth century.
Tilly's sack of Madgeburg is perhaps the most notorious example but there were plenty of others. None of the nations involved behaved like angels and Gryphius wrote some of his finest poems about the conflict.
You also have to remember that the French were seeking to establish an absolute monarchy and that Charles I - partly under the influence of his French wife Henrietta Maria - wanted to do the same in England.
Now my view is that overall, the balance sheet for Cromwell is about 70% positive.
With Charles I it's hard to think of more than about 10% I could say about him that would be positive and around 90% would be negative.
Cromwell saved freedom and religious liberty by what he did.
Now nothing Cromwell did compared with the horrors of the Thirty Years War.
And if you're talking about the pseudo-history of the Irish Republicans who paint Cromwell as some bogeyman then I'll happily correct you on that issue.
If you forced me to choose between the two extreme views on Cromwell - hero or villain - I'd unhestitatingly go for the 'hero' option.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 23, 2016 20:44:48 GMT
Yes Big Lin it's true no historical figure is one dimensional. Cromwell is especially despised in Irish history for his "To Hell or Connaught" policy which gave Cromwell's favorites rich farming land robbed from their Irish owners. www.irish-society.org/home/hedgemaster-archives-2/people/cromwell-oliver-to-hell-or-to-connaught Connaught + Claire were the English names given to rocky and barren West coast regions where Cromwell forced the Irish, who preferred not to be killed immediately to live. Cromwell's soldiers sealed the borders to these areas causing a mass starvation death of up to half a million Irish.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 24, 2016 23:25:42 GMT
That's a fairly simplistic account of Cromwell's doings in Ireland.
Are you familiar with the minutes of the Drogheda town council for the relevant time period?
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 26, 2016 13:14:19 GMT
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 26, 2016 13:19:56 GMT
That wasn't my question.
The FACTS - as the minutes of the town council of the time confirm - show that the 'massacre of Drogheda' was as mythical as the 'massacre of Tonypandy.'
I'll write a fuller response later but it really is just yet another lie by Irish Republicans.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 26, 2016 15:02:57 GMT
Well Big Lin I respect free speech whether it's yours or 7up's. You don't deny that Cromwell robbed land from Irish farmers and gave it to his supporters under his to "Hell or Connaught" policy. This was the death sentence of countless Irish. Most of those who received Irish land from Cromwell had no knowledge of farming much less any desire to remain in Ireland. Two thirds of the stolen Irish farming land was left abandoned and uncultivated, which hurt the English as well.
Cromwell was to the Irish what Himmler was to the Roma.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 26, 2016 15:13:03 GMT
What about the massacre at Wexford? bcw-project.org/military/third-civil-war/cromwell-in-ireland/wexford QUOTE: The Parliamentarian artillery continued to bombard Wexford Castle while the negotiations were in progress. On the afternoon of 11 October, the gunners succeeded in opening two wide breaches in the castle wall. With the breakdown of the main negotiations, Captain Stafford, the commander of the castle, agreed to surrender it before an assault was launched. When Cromwell's troops appeared on the castle battlements and turned its guns on Wexford, the Royalists guarding the south wall of the town lost heart and fled. The Parliamentarians launched an immediate attack, scaling the abandoned walls, opening the gates and storming into the town. The Royalists made a stand in the market square, but they were quickly overwhelmed. Cromwell and his officers made no attempt to restrain their soldiers, who slaughtered the defenders of Wexford and plundered the town. Colonel Synott was among those killed. Hundreds of civilians were shot or drowned as they tried to escape the carnage by fleeing across the River Slaney.
Angered at Synott's last-minute attempt to change the terms of surrender, Cromwell expressed no remorse for the massacre of civilians at Wexford in his subsequent report to Parliament.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 26, 2016 16:22:45 GMT
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 26, 2016 16:39:34 GMT
It may be reasonable to say that the English created Irish nationalism and Cromwell was the culmination of the English attempt to break, subdue and rule Ireland, if not exterminate the inhabitants of Ireland entirely.
To be historically accurate I personally am likely more of a descendant of the invaders of Ireland than a descendant of the original Irish, who were a Celtic people. My father's heritage can be traced back to the Danish invasion of Ireland in 851 in what is now Wexford. www.libraryireland.com/WestCorkHistory/DanishInvasion.php My mother's heritage can be traced back to the Norman invasion of Ireland. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_invasion_of_Ireland The totalitarian English invaders united many of these ethnically diverse people in Ireland.
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