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Post by Scottish Lassie on Apr 29, 2019 22:52:14 GMT
Fascinating discussion Menantol. I love history and the lessons to be learned from it. I also find it interesting to see how history gets distorted for the benefit of one group or another. For example, reading the history of Napoleon and his era is so different when the source is a French author vs. an English author. Like Hitler, and ISIL today, Napoleon overreached, made too many enemies, and that cost him everything in the long run. Abraham Lincoln's history has been distorted by the civil rights movement. They want to see him first and foremost as the President who freed the slaves. Though late in the war he did come around to the view that slaves should be freed, that wasn't his view during most of his Presidency. He once said he'd be happy with no slaves, some slaves, or slavery as it existed before the war if only the war could be ended and the Union preserved. Lincoln's real problem with slavery was economics. He was a staunch capitalist who wanted the economy to grow based on individual opportunity and wages. If everyone got paid for their work, they would then spend those wages creating significant economic activity and raising society. Since slaves didn't get paid, it was only their owners spending money and that limited the economy. Lincoln was a strong Republican back then and he would still be a Republican were he alive today. Before Lincoln became President, he apparently owned a grocery shop. He accidently shortchanged a customer and rather than wait for her to return at some other point in time. He walked a don't know how many miles to give her the correct change. I know him as Honest Abe. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Apr 29, 2019 23:00:58 GMT
First... The accusations of arrogance goes back and forth. You cannot have the higher moral ground when you make as many accusations of arrogance as you receive. Second... I tend to be very careful in how I word things. Nowhere in what I said about not discussing MY spiritual beliefs on open forums did it imply that you should or should not discuss yours. Lastly... When I am discussing something with someone and I feel we have reached an impasse and nobody else has had anything else to say I believe it is time to conclude the discussion. I think we have discussed this enough for me. Also...and this is just a guess...but I think you may have more time to spend on the forums and on discussions like this than I do. You are not reading your own posts correctly. There was definitely innuendo in that particular post. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Apr 29, 2019 23:59:59 GMT
Problem is that history is taught in high school where most students haven't travelled much. My interest in history was kindled when I got travel in Europe where you can see so much history first hand. For instance, I remember driving alongside the Rhine and Mosel rivers where you can see castles sitting in defensive positions atop so many hills. We don't have any hilltop castles in America. My curiosity was triggered. I wondered why we have no castles. Turns out that gun powder was invented before America was founded. Cannons were invented soon thereafter. Once a hostile force was in possession of cannons, those castle walls were easily penetrated. Since castles in defensive positions on hilltops no longer provided a sound defense, they were never built in America. Another example was a trip to France with my then 19 year old son. He had little or no interest in history before that trip, though he had been fed a heavy dose in high school. It so happened that we drove the Napoleon Highway through the French Alps from Grenoble to Provence. That highway traces the route that Napoleon followed when returning from exile in Elba to Paris. He chose a difficult mountain route so as to avoid encounters with hostile forces. As we drove along that route, we discussed Napoleonic history, the wars, his exiles, his successes and his failures. My son's interest was piqued and he eventually became a history buff. His high school history teacher didn't have a way to garner his attention as did I on that road trip. Being taught in the classroom and being on its doorstep so to speak, makes all the difference apparently. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Apr 30, 2019 0:07:32 GMT
Hey... Just curious but did mikemarshall take this quiz? Since I have "known" him, I have been most impressed by both his intelligence and his education. (As well as other things) My strong feeling is he would do extremely well on this quiz. So Michael...if you read this and have not done the quiz, could you maybe consider taking it before it is closed out ? Or...if you have privately, would you be willing to share how you did after it is closed out ? Andie xx As he's my husband, Andie, it wouldn't have been fair for him to take my quiz because he'd know all the answers! Just as I guessed. LOL |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Apr 30, 2019 0:17:59 GMT
Big Lin , I just thought that maybe I had stepped over the line with this quiz. Sometimes I can get obsessed with the silliest things. More than anything I abhor offending anyone on the forums. And esp. people I like and respect. I am so very glad you are not offended. I feel so much better. Would rather apologize and find that really everything was alright than the opposite. This is being posted I believe at the end of your weekend so have a lovely Monday. Andie xx Andie, I've got a terrible temper; you know that by now! If I WAS offended believe me you'd know it! Hey, you're great! WOW!!! You have a lot of personal work ahead of you. LOL. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Apr 30, 2019 0:28:37 GMT
Haven't you come to grips with your emotions yet? Perhaps Yoga and meditation might help. They are both good for changing your metabolism so that your frame of mind is completely changed for the better. It is no fun being around anyone who can't control their temper. I would skedaddle even when someone with a Sergeant Major voice would come into the room. I'm afraid you and I could never associate with one another except on the Internet. I wouldn't survive for long. LOL. You don't know me; I don't know you. We are both beings interacting in cyberspace. We can only form our impressions of each other through that. And on that basis I agree we're poles apart. But then again it takes two to tango and perhaps you need to ask yourself why it is that you come across in such an unfavourable light to some of us. Maybe it's the result of sins you committed in some past life? Anyone who lives in this world couldn't be perfect, but by being given spiritual enlightenment we eventually learn and are able to climb 'Jacob's Ladder ' on our way to the Godhead. We will find the ultimate truth there. PS: I know why I come across in an unfavourable light. It is because you all have misinterpreted my beliefs to having no feelings of empathy towards the sufferings of others. This couldn't be further from the truth.. I care very much about people and don't want to see any one suffer. As I have said before, what I know to be true because of my experiences, has no effect on my feelings. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Apr 30, 2019 0:57:21 GMT
Scottish Lassie I learn more about myself all the time as well as other people. I know more about myself at 42 than I knew at 21. I hope to keep learning. I know I am intelligent and educated and I also know there are more intelligent and educated people than I. I know I am caring and empathetic and I also know there are more caring and empathetic people than I. Many people on the forms seem to have a very negative opinion of you. I have read what they say and what you say. They base what they say on the many many things you say. From what I have read you seem unlikely to take in anything anyone says to you. Regardless I decided to post the above. You only believe what your senses are telling you. Evidently my senses are telling me something different. We are in the same boat so to speak, as our senses are all we have to rely on. PS: just because I have certain beliefs, that is the reason that so many people have come to the wrong conclusion. I still feel, so of course I have empathy for a person who suffers, why should I be any different. I have been labeled arrogant because of my beliefs, which has nothing to do with my feelings.please take note of that. |
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 30, 2019 14:58:33 GMT
Scottish Lassie I learn more about myself all the time as well as other people. I know more about myself at 42 than I knew at 21. I hope to keep learning. I know I am intelligent and educated and I also know there are more intelligent and educated people than I. I know I am caring and empathetic and I also know there are more caring and empathetic people than I. Many people on the forms seem to have a very negative opinion of you. I have read what they say and what you say. They base what they say on the many many things you say. From what I have read you seem unlikely to take in anything anyone says to you. Regardless I decided to post the above. You only believe what your senses are telling you. Evidently my senses are telling me something different. We are in the same boat so to speak, as our senses are all we have to rely on. Well, actually, our senses deceive us all the time whether it's colour blindness, mirages, hallucinations, dreams, nightmares, the effects of drugs or alcohol and so on. The senses are a SOURCE of knowledge but without the brain they are a confused series of jumbles. Rather like if you threw an assortment of raw food on the floor that WOULDN'T constitute a meal. |
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 30, 2019 14:59:23 GMT
Andie, I've got a terrible temper; you know that by now! If I WAS offended believe me you'd know it! Hey, you're great! WOW!!! You have a lot of personal work ahead of you. LOL. Rather like YOU do in terms of humility and open-mindedness. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 2, 2019 4:33:36 GMT
You only believe what your senses are telling you. Evidently my senses are telling me something different. We are in the same boat so to speak, as our senses are all we have to rely on. Well, actually, our senses deceive us all the time whether it's colour blindness, mirages, hallucinations, dreams, nightmares, the effects of drugs or alcohol and so on. The senses are a SOURCE of knowledge but without the brain they are a confused series of jumbles. Rather like if you threw an assortment of raw food on the floor that WOULDN'T constitute a meal. I don't suffer from any of these conditions as I don't ingest illegal drugs of any kind. A hallucination cannot come to pass in this physical world, and as the things that I believe are doing just that, then I can't be suffering from hallucinations. I eat meat and vegetables only, with some extra vitamins thrown in. |
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Post by andie on May 2, 2019 16:55:33 GMT
Scottish Lassie It is well known that hallucinations can occur from among other things sleep deprivation. Whether the sleep deprivation is because of skipping sleep to study, work or other things OR because it comes as the result of torture the fact is hallucinations do occur in this physical world. Parkinson's disease, depression, psychosis, and epilepsy medications may trigger hallucination symptoms. Other conditions can also cause hallucinations. These causes can include: terminal illnesses, such as AIDS, brain cancer, or kidney and liver failure. Point being there are many causes of hallucinations and they do exist in this physical world. Lin also mentioned dreams. You do dream because if you did not you would go crazy. She also mentioned drugs and alcohol affecting the senses...she made no mention of illegal drugs. SL you did not deny ingesting prescription drugs nor alcohol. As she said these substances also affect the senses.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 2, 2019 23:36:22 GMT
WOW!!! You have a lot of personal work ahead of you. LOL. Rather like YOU do in terms of humility and open-mindedness. That is just assumption on your part. I know that I am humble. When a person reaches a stage of spiritual initiation that is what happens. All the different vices fall away one by one until all that is left is humility. We are here in this physical world to learn lessons by seeking, and in doing that, receive spiritual enlightenment which sets us on the path to God. There is such a thing as reincarnation, and Soul travel, which I know for a fact is part of being alive. A person cannot move on unless they are aware of this. Soul is who we are and we reside in a physical body which is the vehicle that houses Soul while we are here. I have left my body many times and travelled to different places. This is not a hallucination as many worldly people seem to think. A prominent NeuroSurgeon wrote a book about his experiences whilst out of the body. The title of the book is Proof of Heaven. I cannot for the life of me understand that just because I relate my beliefs, you choose to see me as being arrogant, when I know that I am not. What are your reasons? |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 2, 2019 23:51:24 GMT
Scottish Lassie It is well known that hallucinations can occur from among other things sleep deprivation. Whether the sleep deprivation is because of skipping sleep to study, work or other things OR because it comes as the result of torture the fact is hallucinations do occur in this physical world. Parkinson's disease, depression, psychosis, and epilepsy medications may trigger hallucination symptoms. Other conditions can also cause hallucinations. These causes can include: terminal illnesses, such as AIDS, brain cancer, or kidney and liver failure. Point being there are many causes of hallucinations and they do exist in this physical world. Lin also mentioned dreams. You do dream because if you did not you would go crazy. She also mentioned drugs and alcohol affecting the senses...she made no mention of illegal drugs. SL you did not deny ingesting prescription drugs nor alcohol. As she said these substances also affect the senses. By golly.!!! You would have the whole world having hallucinations if you had your way. I was having spiritual experiences from childhood, and what you consider dreams is in fact out of the body experiences. I don't suffer from any of these health conditions that you mentioned, and up until now I do not ingest any prescription drugs. I am normally very healthy so rarely visit a Doctor. |
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Post by Big Lin on May 3, 2019 0:53:37 GMT
Rather like YOU do in terms of humility and open-mindedness. That is just assumption on your part. I know that I am humble. When a person reaches a stage of spiritual initiation that is what happens. All the different vices fall away one by one until all that is left is humility. We are here in this physical world to learn lessons by seeking, and in doing that, receive spiritual enlightenment which sets us on the path to God. There is such a thing as reincarnation, and Soul travel, which I know for a fact is part of being alive. A person cannot move on unless they are aware of this. Soul is who we are and we reside in a physical body which is the vehicle that houses Soul while we are here. I have left my body many times and travelled to different places. This is not a hallucination as many worldly people seem to think. A prominent NeuroSurgeon wrote a book about his experiences whilst out of the body. The title of the book is Proof of Heaven. I cannot for the life of me understand that just because I relate my beliefs, you choose to see me as being arrogant, when I know that I am not. What are your reasons? Well, in the first place you can't tell the difference between opinion and fact. You claim to 'know' certain things which it's actually NOT possible for humans to 'know' Secondly, you assume that anyone who doesn't share your opinions must be an unspiritual person. Thirdly, you assume that YOU are 'enlightened' which is in itself an arrogant claim. I've read Proof of Heaven and it's NOT 'proof' of anything of the kind. It's simply a description of some interesting mental states. Now if you want to talk about 'proof' then mental experiences aren't good enough to cut it. I could say more but I'm about to go to bed so I'll respond more fully tomorrow. |
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Post by Big Lin on May 3, 2019 0:56:15 GMT
By the way, even atheists and agnostics can have OOBEs (my husband has done so many times but he's still an agnostic)
And I remember the words of St Teresa of Avila who, when nuns in her convent said 'I've had a vision of the Virgin Mary' told them 'keep praying and meditating and they'll go away!'
I also remember her words when nuns said to her 'it must be wonderful to be like you, Teresa, not having any doubts and being able to lead a spiritual life' and she told them 'what do you think I am, a saint?'
That question in itself shows WHY she WAS entitled to sainthood.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 3, 2019 11:18:50 GMT
That is just assumption on your part. I know that I am humble. When a person reaches a stage of spiritual initiation that is what happens. All the different vices fall away one by one until all that is left is humility. We are here in this physical world to learn lessons by seeking, and in doing that, receive spiritual enlightenment which sets us on the path to God. There is such a thing as reincarnation, and Soul travel, which I know for a fact is part of being alive. A person cannot move on unless they are aware of this. Soul is who we are and we reside in a physical body which is the vehicle that houses Soul while we are here. I have left my body many times and travelled to different places. This is not a hallucination as many worldly people seem to think. A prominent NeuroSurgeon wrote a book about his experiences whilst out of the body. The title of the book is Proof of Heaven. I cannot for the life of me understand that just because I relate my beliefs, you choose to see me as being arrogant, when I know that I am not. What are your reasons? Well, in the first place you can't tell the difference between opinion and fact. You claim to 'know' certain things which it's actually NOT possible for humans to 'know' Secondly, you assume that anyone who doesn't share your opinions must be an unspiritual person. Thirdly, you assume that YOU are 'enlightened' which is in itself an arrogant claim. I've read Proof of Heaven and it's NOT 'proof' of anything of the kind. It's simply a description of some interesting mental states. Now if you want to talk about 'proof' then mental experiences aren't good enough to cut it. I could say more but I'm about to go to bed so I'll respond more fully tomorrow. Stating that you are spiritual is not arrogant at all. I have been going through a process of seeking and I am tested on that and have been initiated to a higher level. Certain things happen in your life that indicates that you have moved on. The same thing applies when you pass exams in college. Is a person arrogant when they say I have reach a certain level in my education. They have a certificate proving it is so. When I can stand at my front door and unlock it and immediately know that someone has been in my unit whilst I was out. Then I get a message from my son telling me that he called by and found that I wasn't home. What is that then? A person when they become more spiritual reach that knowing stage. That is part of the process of gaining initiations. I am not speaking nonsense. You are just not on the same wavelength as I am, as I have been following this path since childhood. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 3, 2019 11:34:55 GMT
By the way, even atheists and agnostics can have OOBEs (my husband has done so many times but he's still an agnostic) And I remember the words of St Teresa of Avila who, when nuns in her convent said 'I've had a vision of the Virgin Mary' told them 'keep praying and meditating and they'll go away!' I alls remember her words when nuns said to her 'it must be wonderful to be like you, Teresa, not having any doubts and being able to lead a spiritual life' and she told them 'what do you think I am, a saint?' That question in itself shows WHY she WAS entitled to sainthood. I don't take her word for what I am experiencing. I listen to the Holy Spirit. That comment from the Nun reminds me of a person who most times starts a sentence with: "In my humble opinion, I believe this and that to be so" and I know for sure this person is the proudest that you can be. |
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Post by Big Lin on May 3, 2019 21:07:11 GMT
By the way, even atheists and agnostics can have OOBEs (my husband has done so many times but he's still an agnostic) And I remember the words of St Teresa of Avila who, when nuns in her convent said 'I've had a vision of the Virgin Mary' told them 'keep praying and meditating and they'll go away!' I alls remember her words when nuns said to her 'it must be wonderful to be like you, Teresa, not having any doubts and being able to lead a spiritual life' and she told them 'what do you think I am, a saint?' That question in itself shows WHY she WAS entitled to sainthood. I don't take her word for what I am experiencing. I listen to the Holy Spirit. That comment from the Nun reminds me of a person who most times starts a sentence with: "In my humble opinion, I believe this and that to be so" and I know for sure this person is the proudest that you can be. What it boils down to is you can't stand to admit that you might be wrong. It really is that simple. And that is arrogance on any meaningful definition of the word. Now how do you know it's the Holy Spirit you're hearing? How do you know it's not Satan (for instance?) What do you say to schizophrenics who say 'God told me to kill them?' Do you accept THEIR delusional behaviour as being valid? |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 4, 2019 8:46:30 GMT
I don't take her word for what I am experiencing. I listen to the Holy Spirit. That comment from the Nun reminds me of a person who most times starts a sentence with: "In my humble opinion, I believe this and that to be so" and I know for sure this person is the proudest that you can be. What it boils down to is you can't stand to admit that you might be wrong. It really is that simple. And that is arrogance on any meaningful definition of the word. Now how do you know it's the Holy Spirit you're hearing? How do you know it's not Satan (for instance?) What do you say to schizophrenics who say 'God told me to kill them?' Do you accept THEIR delusional behaviour as being valid? In the first place, as I know that God loves us all unconditionally, I would know that it wasn't the Holy Spirit, so would not respond. I know what is true, and it seems to me that the shoe is on the other foot, It is perhaps you that doesn't want to be considered wrong, and is the one who is arrogant. You have tried long enough to get me to say "that I only believe such and such to be true" when in fact I DO know from my experiences that it is true. What I have been shown comes true in this physical world, so it is certainly not a hallucination that you want to believe is true of my experiences. |
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Post by Big Lin on May 5, 2019 0:07:03 GMT
What it boils down to is you can't stand to admit that you might be wrong. It really is that simple. And that is arrogance on any meaningful definition of the word. Now how do you know it's the Holy Spirit you're hearing? How do you know it's not Satan (for instance?) What do you say to schizophrenics who say 'God told me to kill them?' Do you accept THEIR delusional behaviour as being valid? In the first place, as I know that God loves us all unconditionally, I would know that it wasn't the Holy Spirit, so would not respond. I know what is true, and it seems to me that the shoe is on the other foot, It is perhaps you that doesn't want to be considered wrong, and is the one who is arrogant. You have tried long enough to get me to say "that I only believe such and such to be true" when in fact I DO know from my experiences that it is true. What I have been shown comes true in this physical world, so it is certainly not a hallucination that you want to believe is true of my experiences. You DON'T 'know' a) the mind of God; b) even if He exists. You DON'T 'know' what is true; you only BELIEVE what you WANT to be true. I am always happy to admit when I'm wrong; I've changed my mind on a number of things over the years. You do NOT 'know' from your experiences that what you say is 'true.' And why do you explain that OTHER people with DIFFERENT experiences aren't speaking 'truth?' And why do you explain that OTHER people with the SAME experiences as you interpret them DIFFERENTLY? Now frankly I and my husband have both had plenty of experiences that you (and I) would call 'spiritual.' My husband would prefer to call them 'paranormal' or a similar term. You know, all I want YOU to do is STOP pretending that your BELIEFS constitute FACTS about the world. |
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Post by andie on May 5, 2019 2:13:07 GMT
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 5, 2019 5:05:11 GMT
In the first place, as I know that God loves us all unconditionally, I would know that it wasn't the Holy Spirit, so would not respond. I know what is true, and it seems to me that the shoe is on the other foot, It is perhaps you that doesn't want to be considered wrong, and is the one who is arrogant. You have tried long enough to get me to say "that I only believe such and such to be true" when in fact I DO know from my experiences that it is true. What I have been shown comes true in this physical world, so it is certainly not a hallucination that you want to believe is true of my experiences. You DON'T 'know' a) the mind of God; b) even if He exists. You DON'T 'know' what is true; you only BELIEVE what you WANT to be true. I am always happy to admit when I'm wrong; I've changed my mind on a number of things over the years. You do NOT 'know' from your experiences that what you say is 'true.' And why do you explain that OTHER people with DIFFERENT experiences aren't speaking 'truth?' And why do you explain that OTHER people with the SAME experiences as you interpret them DIFFERENTLY? Now frankly I and my husband have both had plenty of experiences that you (and I) would call 'spiritual.' My husband would prefer to call them 'paranormal' or a similar term. You know, all I want YOU to do is STOP pretending that your BELIEFS constitute FACTS about the world. All I can say to that is: you must have a swelled head. To you and others, what you perceive to be, is your truth, and we will leave it at that. I used to belong to the Christian Spiritual Church so I know all about the paranormal. I wasn't twiddling my thumbs when growing up, I was seeking the truth, which is a far cry from joining a gang and roughing up the neighbourhood., It gives me a head start in seeking the truth and no doubt the reason why we are on different wavelengths. Our bodies are put together in an amazing way, and there is a reason why. It is not accidental as so many people think, but was created for a specific purpose. I KNOW, do YOU? |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 5, 2019 6:46:42 GMT
WOW!!! You have a lot of personal work ahead of you. LOL. Rather like YOU do in terms of humility and open-mindedness. I have always said that I have reached the stage where humility is a part of my personality. I am a very placid person, so express no anger or animosity towards anyone. Yet I seem to be attacked personally at every seeming provocation. So be it.!!! |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 5, 2019 9:08:46 GMT
You only believe what your senses are telling you. Evidently my senses are telling me something different. We are in the same boat so to speak, as our senses are all we have to rely on. Well, actually, our senses deceive us all the time whether it's colour blindness, mirages, hallucinations, dreams, nightmares, the effects of drugs or alcohol and so on. The senses are a SOURCE of knowledge but without the brain they are a confused series of jumbles. Rather like if you threw an assortment of raw food on the floor that WOULDN'T constitute a meal. Something or someone is relaying information to the brain.We are told in the Bible to listen to that small voice within. How is that done and where do you suppose it comes from? Seeing that you mentioned in an earlier post 'if there is a God' I thought as a Christian you wouldn't have to ask that question. Have you decided now to become an Agnostic like your husband? |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 5, 2019 10:51:34 GMT
First... The accusations of arrogance goes back and forth. You cannot have the higher moral ground when you make as many accusations of arrogance as you receive. Second... I tend to be very careful in how I word things. Nowhere in what I said about not discussing MY spiritual beliefs on open forums did it imply that you should or should not discuss yours. Lastly... When I am discussing something with someone and I feel we have reached an impasse and nobody else has had anything else to say I believe it is time to conclude the discussion. I think we have discussed this enough for me. Also...and this is just a guess...but I think you may have more time to spend on the forums and on discussions like this than I do. You are not reading your own posts correctly. There was definitely innuendo in that particular post. PS: I was receiving posts one after the other saying that I was arrogant and all because I was saying that new born babes had accrued karma which played out as they grew, also that the people who died in the holocaust deserved what happened to them. I was told, that not only was I arrogant but that I had no empathy for the suffering of people. This is all untrue. During that time I am almost sure that I didn't say that they were arrogant. I was too busy trying to defend myself and trying to indicate that I was a humble person and not the type of person that the posters thought I was. It is just recently that I have suggested that others are rather the ones that are displaying this trait. Pride is a trait that exists only in this world. In seeking the truth, I have been going through a series of initiations which cannot be ignored as I have received essential spiritual truths with each initiation. |
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