♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 5, 2015 16:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 22:01:04 GMT
Personally I believe that this is much ado about nothing.
The Prophet Muhammad was born circa 570 C.E. As an adult he was known to retreat to a cave outside of Mecca for prayer and meditation. At about 40 years of age he heard the voice telling him to recite and then the words entered him, and when he arrived home the Angel Gabriel told him that he was the messenger of God. This continued and after three years he began to recite these words to friends and neighbors gaining new followers. The point here is that this would have been about 613 C.E.
In 622 C.E. He joined a delegation and moved to Medina. In 630. C.E. He returned to Mecca with a huge host of followers and captured the city. During all of these years until his death in 632 C.E. he continued to recite the words given to him , but never wrote anything down.
Now began the era of the Caliphs (successors not prophets). A year after Muhammad's death a battle took place where many of the original reciters of his words were killed. Because of this loss, the first caliph (Abu Bakr) order a collection of all of the revelations that had come to Muhammad in the years since his first encounter with the Angel Gabriel until his death. Around 650 C.E. Under the third caliph, Uthman, these revelations were put into the standard form of 114 suras of the current Qur'an and divergence copies were destroyed.
Now the point is two fold, first, since this was the reveled word (God To Muhammad) their form could be from any age. Secondly, the developing of the first Qur'an was done in such a way that many people played a role. From this, the syntax of the words and the words used are definitive of the specific time of its writing is a hollow assertion with no merit.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 6, 2015 0:24:32 GMT
Personally I believe that this is much ado about nothing. The Prophet Muhammad was born circa 570 C.E. As an adult he was known to retreat to a cave outside of Mecca for prayer and meditation. At about 40 years of age he heard the voice telling him to recite and then the words entered him, and when he arrived home the Angel Gabriel told him that he was the messenger of God. This continued and after three years he began to recite these words to friends and neighbors gaining new followers. The point here is that this would have been about 613 C.E. In 622 C.E. He joined a delegation and moved to Medina. In 630. C.E. He returned to Mecca with a huge host of followers and captured the city. During all of these years until his death in 632 C.E. he continued to recite the words given to him , but never wrote anything down. Now began the era of the Caliphs (successors not prophets). A year after Muhammad's death a battle took place where many of the original reciters of his words were killed. Because of this loss, the first caliph (Abu Bakr) order a collection of all of the revelations that had come to Muhammad in the years since his first encounter with the Angel Gabriel until his death. Around 650 C.E. Under the third caliph, Uthman, these revelations were put into the standard form of 114 suras of the current Qur'an and divergence copies were destroyed. Now the point is two fold, first, since this was the reveled word (God To Muhammad) their form could be from any age. Secondly, the developing of the first Qur'an was done in such a way that many people played a role. From this, the syntax of the words and the words used are definitive of the specific time of its writing is a hollow assertion with no merit. Whatever men an tol, I have been told that ECKANKAR is actually as old as the beginning of Creation, but under a different name. Jainism perhaps? The Voice of God (Holy Spirit) spoke everything into being, and ECKANKAR is the Religion of Light and Sound (Holy Spirit), so in reality you can't get anything older. We, as ECKists, follow the Holy Spirit, so you can't get anything better than that, as far as I am concerned. Apparently, Jesus came to teach people to be compassionate, which doesn't seem to show up in Islam. We follow the Holy Spirit (ECK) and listen to what it has to say. Perhaps you have heard of ' remote viewing ' ? It sounds the same to me as ' Soul Travel ' During WW2 the Americans and the Russians were using this practice in order to find out their secrets and from what I heard, it worked. You might be able to find out via Google, under the heading of Remote Viewing? It is evidently something that does happen, as we in ECKANKAR can vouch for. We will wait for more info as to what is thought of the Prophet Mohammed's revelations. Can it really be proven?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 4:56:15 GMT
Personally I believe that this is much ado about nothing. The Prophet Muhammad was born circa 570 C.E. As an adult he was known to retreat to a cave outside of Mecca for prayer and meditation. At about 40 years of age he heard the voice telling him to recite and then the words entered him, and when he arrived home the Angel Gabriel told him that he was the messenger of God. This continued and after three years he began to recite these words to friends and neighbors gaining new followers. The point here is that this would have been about 613 C.E. In 622 C.E. He joined a delegation and moved to Medina. In 630. C.E. He returned to Mecca with a huge host of followers and captured the city. During all of these years until his death in 632 C.E. he continued to recite the words given to him , but never wrote anything down. Now began the era of the Caliphs (successors not prophets). A year after Muhammad's death a battle took place where many of the original reciters of his words were killed. Because of this loss, the first caliph (Abu Bakr) order a collection of all of the revelations that had come to Muhammad in the years since his first encounter with the Angel Gabriel until his death. Around 650 C.E. Under the third caliph, Uthman, these revelations were put into the standard form of 114 suras of the current Qur'an and divergence copies were destroyed. Now the point is two fold, first, since this was the reveled word (God To Muhammad) their form could be from any age. Secondly, the developing of the first Qur'an was done in such a way that many people played a role. From this, the syntax of the words and the words used are definitive of the specific time of its writing is a hollow assertion with no merit. Whatever men an tol, I have been told that ECKANKAR is actually as old as the beginning of Creation, but under a different name. Jainism perhaps? The Voice of God (Holy Spirit) spoke everything into being, and ECKANKAR is the Religion of Light and Sound (Holy Spirit), so in reality you can't get anything older. We, as ECKists, follow the Holy Spirit, so you can't get anything better than that, as far as I am concerned. Apparently, Jesus came to teach people to be compassionate, which doesn't seem to show up in Islam. We follow the Holy Spirit (ECK) and listen to what it has to say. Perhaps you have heard of ' remote viewing ' ? It sounds the same to me as ' Soul Travel ' During WW2 the Americans and the Russians were using this practice in order to find out their secrets and from what I heard, it worked. You might be able to find out via Google, under the heading of Remote Viewing? It is evidently something that does happen, as we in ECKANKAR can vouch for. We will wait for more info as to what is thought of the Prophet Mohammed's revelations. Can it really be proven? Scottish Lassie, my comments were narrow in their context and intent as I was responding to an article which was asserting that some of the words in the Qur'an existed prior to Muhammad. All I did was to provide the Islamic version of Muhammad's gaining the knowledge as direct revelation of God and the events which led to his reciting these words and their eventual being printed in a book, the Qur'an. I guess that it is strange that I (as an Atheist) relate this story and not someone who is religious and preferably a Muslim. At any rate, how words from prior people could get into the Qur'an and not be plagiarism by Muhammad is easy to understand if that did indeed happen. The evidence (as presented by the article) is pretty scanty. As to your comments about the basics of your religion going back to creation times I'm sure that you believe it, but I would select something other than Jainism as the carrier of the word as it isn't that old as it is came into being (about the same time as Buddhism) or about 600 BCE. That would make it near the same age as the works from which Plato developed his Platonic Philosophy. I have suggested in the past that you might consider looking into Gnosticism (in particular Valentinian Gnosticism as an origin source for at least some of your religion's beliefs. Gnosticism was clearly influenced by Plato's philosophies, that is, there is a direct line from Plato to Gnosticism. More over, Gnosticism has directly influence religious movements here in our times in particularly post World War II era and the discovery of the Gnostic Codices (known as the Gnostic Nag Hammadi). I believe that it is pretty easy to demonstrate the influence on your religion through Paul Twitchell and the connection to Gnostic Philosophies. But that is neither here nor there to me and such has been offered as a source only to assist your directions. However, my primary point in this thread is that the story from the Islamics as to the works of Muhammad and the subsequent creation of the Qur'and has not been impacted by the Article or the efforts of the mentioned scholar.
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Post by Big Lin on Sept 6, 2015 13:37:12 GMT
It's also admitted by every Muslim scholar and Imam I've ever met or read that Mohammed mixed with a lot of Jews and Christians.
In many ways Islam is closer to Judaism than any other religion.
Ironic?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 18:38:21 GMT
It's also admitted by every Muslim scholar and Imam I've ever met or read that Mohammed mixed with a lot of Jews and Christians. In many ways Islam is closer to Judaism than any other religion. Ironic? Yes Big Lin, Mohammad mixed with Jews and Christians due to the nature of the mixed cultures and business contacts of those times. We can assert that such involvement impacted the development of Mohammad's concepts of creation of the Qur'an, but such assertions are not proof. Those who believe that Muhammad is God's messenger with the given direct word of God will never accept such assertions. Even so, Muslims believe that Islam (as reveled through Muhammad) is rooted in Abraham and that is the connection with both Jewish beliefs and with Christianity as they have the same root source and are considered by Islam as people of the book. This extends to Islamic acceptance of the idea that others had also received God's reveled word as prophets, that is, the Scrolls were reveled to Abraham; Moses received the Torah; David the Psalms; and Jesus received and wrote down the Gospel (different than the four gospels of the New Testament); but revelations made to these four prophets were either lost, corrupted, or misinterpreted. God selected Muhammad to received his reveled word as a corrective and perfect text to resolve all confusion and teach the truth, and would be the last word ever needed. In this context Muhammad became the seal of the prophets, the final prophet and authenticator of all preceding prophets. More over, in this context of the Qur'an as being the 'reveled' word, the Qur'an took on the cape of inimitability and as such it cannot be changed. I am not a believer nor am I promoting that these beliefs are absolute, rather, all I am doing is suggesting that this article is first not a solid assertion (merely a possibility) and that, those who are believers will never, can never, accept the assertion of the article. As I have stated in the past, we (a very general we) of the West do not understand what Islam actually is, in particular to its followers, and due to that lack of understanding we make quite inaccurate assumptions and have unrealistic expectations.
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Post by blc on Sept 7, 2015 17:32:58 GMT
It's also admitted by every Muslim scholar and Imam I've ever met or read that Mohammed mixed with a lot of Jews and Christians. In many ways Islam is closer to Judaism than any other religion. Ironic? Lin, I have commented on Islam and Judaism having strong similarities before, even to my step dad and people just look at me like I'm crazy and they tell me they are nothing alike. I have to wonder then, how much they really know. The kosher/halal, no pork are just an example. Anyway glad to know someone else sees the similarity.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 8, 2015 9:25:56 GMT
Hi Men an tol, information being put into Mohammeds mind that he then recited, sounds good to me and the fact that his followers, who believed that he was indeed receiving the word of God, which they then recited, sounds pretty good also.
But the fly in the ointment in my opinion, is the fact that Mohammed's utterences were not written down and most of his followers who also recited were killed, so it does make you wonder if the Koran is the truth as Mohammed received it?
I mentioned Jainism, because I read somewhere that Jainism was the oldest Religion I thought that ECKANKAR and Jainism must be one and the same. I know that The Religion of Light and Sound (HolySpirit) goes all the way back to the beginning of Creation.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 14:33:14 GMT
Hi Men an tol, information being put into Mohammeds mind that he then recited, sounds good to me and the fact that his followers, who believed that he was indeed receiving the word of God, which they then recited, sounds pretty good also. But the fly in the ointment in my opinion, is the fact that Mohammed's utterences were not written down and most of his followers who also recited were killed, so it does make you wonder if the Koran is the truth as Mohammed received it? I mentioned Jainism, because I read somewhere that Jainism was the oldest Religion I thought that ECKANKAR and Jainism must be one and the same. I know that The Religion of Light and Sound (HolySpirit) goes all the way back to the beginning of Creation. I understand your concerns Scottish Lassie and to a degree they are also mine. What we (Kafir as non-Muslims) should keep in mind is that memorization and reciting are (at least were) important in the past. The command to Muhammad (as I understand it) was to recite and he did not receive a command to write what he was given. The intent (again, as I understand it) is that the act of reciting from memorization is important and it is also preferred that such occur in the original Arabic. That is, the sounds of the Arabic language are conducive to text meaning or at least the acceptance. In fact, annually there is a large gathering of Muslims to demonstrate their (each one) command of the Qur'an through memorization and reciting. Do the words recited by Muhammad as captured and written in the Qur'an accurately reflect his recitings? We (Kafir) will never know but the followers of Islam believe it to be so. Jainism and Buddhism are sister religions, sort of like the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. Evolved from the same social environment but following different paths. Buddhism developed as a successful missionary religion and Jainism remain much smaller and is far more demanding on its followers. The founder of Jainism, Mahavira, lived (it is estimated) in the sixth century B.C.E. (although today's scholars are now leaning more to it being the fifth century B.C.E. And in this context Mahavira and Buddha were near contemporaries with several similarities. (Interesting to me is that they predate Plato by only 150 years or so.) Both were raised as princes in the Kshatriya (warrior) caste in Northern India. Both left home at the age of 30 to find spiritual fulfillment in asceticism and meditation. After six years the Buddha became enlightened and left his severe fasting. However Mahavira never gave up his ascetic practices. After twelve years of ascetic practice he reached his version of enlightenment and became a Jina (Conqueror). For those who follow this religion it is very demanding, for example none wear shoes and in one version of it none wear cloths and rely on donations of others for food and any other need. There is a lot more to this religion.
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Post by blc on Sept 8, 2015 16:55:43 GMT
Hi Men an tol, information being put into Mohammeds mind that he then recited, sounds good to me and the fact that his followers, who believed that he was indeed receiving the word of God, which they then recited, sounds pretty good also. But the fly in the ointment in my opinion, is the fact that Mohammed's utterences were not written down and most of his followers who also recited were killed, so it does make you wonder if the Koran is the truth as Mohammed received it? I mentioned Jainism, because I read somewhere that Jainism was the oldest Religion I thought that ECKANKAR and Jainism must be one and the same. I know that The Religion of Light and Sound (HolySpirit) goes all the way back to the beginning of Creation. I understand your concerns Scottish Lassie and to a degree they are also mine. What we (Kafir as non-Muslims) should keep in mind is that memorization and reciting are (at least were) important in the past. The command to Muhammad (as I understand it) was to recite and he did not receive a command to write what he was given. The intent (again, as I understand it) is that the act of reciting from memorization is important and it is also preferred that such occur in the original Arabic. That is, the sounds of the Arabic language are conducive to text meaning or at least the acceptance. In fact, annually there is a large gathering of Muslims to demonstrate their (each one) command of the Qur'an through memorization and reciting. Do the words recited by Muhammad as captured and written in the Qur'an accurately reflect his recitings? We (Kafir) will never know but the followers of Islam believe it to be so. Jainism and Buddhism are sister religions, sort of like the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. Evolved from the same social environment but following different paths. Buddhism developed as a successful missionary religion and Jainism remain much smaller and is far more demanding on its followers. The founder of Jainism, Mahavira, lived (it is estimated) in the sixth century B.C.E. (although today's scholars are now leaning more to it being the fifth century B.C.E. And in this context Mahavira and Buddha were near contemporaries with several similarities. (Interesting to me is that they predate Plato by only 150 years or so.) Both were raised as princes in the Kshatriya (warrior) caste in Northern India. Both left home at the age of 30 to find spiritual fulfillment in asceticism and meditation. After six years the Buddha became enlightened and left his severe fasting. However Mahavira never gave up his ascetic practices. After twelve years of ascetic practice he reached his version of enlightenment and became a Jina (Conqueror). For those who follow this religion it is very demanding, for example none wear shoes and in one version of it none wear cloths and rely on donations of others for food and any other need. There is a lot more to this religion. What bothers me is the forced recitation. That reminds me of brainwashing. Matthew 6:7 King James Version (KJV) 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. I think prayers should be personal and heartfelt, not repetition.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 19:34:28 GMT
I understand your concerns Scottish Lassie and to a degree they are also mine. What we (Kafir as non-Muslims) should keep in mind is that memorization and reciting are (at least were) important in the past. The command to Muhammad (as I understand it) was to recite and he did not receive a command to write what he was given. The intent (again, as I understand it) is that the act of reciting from memorization is important and it is also preferred that such occur in the original Arabic. That is, the sounds of the Arabic language are conducive to text meaning or at least the acceptance. In fact, annually there is a large gathering of Muslims to demonstrate their (each one) command of the Qur'an through memorization and reciting. Do the words recited by Muhammad as captured and written in the Qur'an accurately reflect his recitings? We (Kafir) will never know but the followers of Islam believe it to be so. Jainism and Buddhism are sister religions, sort of like the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. Evolved from the same social environment but following different paths. Buddhism developed as a successful missionary religion and Jainism remain much smaller and is far more demanding on its followers. The founder of Jainism, Mahavira, lived (it is estimated) in the sixth century B.C.E. (although today's scholars are now leaning more to it being the fifth century B.C.E. And in this context Mahavira and Buddha were near contemporaries with several similarities. (Interesting to me is that they predate Plato by only 150 years or so.) Both were raised as princes in the Kshatriya (warrior) caste in Northern India. Both left home at the age of 30 to find spiritual fulfillment in asceticism and meditation. After six years the Buddha became enlightened and left his severe fasting. However Mahavira never gave up his ascetic practices. After twelve years of ascetic practice he reached his version of enlightenment and became a Jina (Conqueror). For those who follow this religion it is very demanding, for example none wear shoes and in one version of it none wear cloths and rely on donations of others for food and any other need. There is a lot more to this religion. What bothers me is the forced recitation. That reminds me of brainwashing. Matthew 6:7 King James Version (KJV) 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. I think prayers should be personal and heartfelt, not repetition. While there are some acts similar in some parts of Christianity, most of Western Christian culture would, I'm sure, agree with you BLC. Here (I suspect) that such reciting takes on a combination of attending a service and the signing of hymns. Personally I find the content meaning of the Suras as most often alien to Western values. However, one may view them (President Obama has mentioned that the Islamic call to prayer is one of the most beautiful sounds he has ever heard), as a form of signing. In a way that explains it as (I understand) that when these Suras are spoken in Arabic (the preferred method) it takes on a singsong melodic sound that many find pleasing even if they do not understand the meanings in Arabic.
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Post by blc on Sept 8, 2015 22:24:57 GMT
What bothers me is the forced recitation. That reminds me of brainwashing. Matthew 6:7 King James Version (KJV) 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. I think prayers should be personal and heartfelt, not repetition. While there are some acts similar in some parts of Christianity, most of Western Christian culture would, I'm sure, agree with you BLC. Here (I suspect) that such reciting takes on a combination of attending a service and the signing of hymns. Personally I find the content meaning of the Suras as most often alien to Western values. However, one may view them (President Obama has mentioned that the Islamic call to prayer is one of the most beautiful sounds he has ever heard), as a form of signing. In a way that explains it as (I understand) that when these Suras are spoken in Arabic (the preferred method) it takes on a singsong melodic sound that many find pleasing even if they do not understand the meanings in Arabic. I could be wrong but I think the Jews do the same with the Torah. The singsong melodic reading.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 2:33:22 GMT
While there are some acts similar in some parts of Christianity, most of Western Christian culture would, I'm sure, agree with you BLC. Here (I suspect) that such reciting takes on a combination of attending a service and the signing of hymns. Personally I find the content meaning of the Suras as most often alien to Western values. However, one may view them (President Obama has mentioned that the Islamic call to prayer is one of the most beautiful sounds he has ever heard), as a form of signing. In a way that explains it as (I understand) that when these Suras are spoken in Arabic (the preferred method) it takes on a singsong melodic sound that many find pleasing even if they do not understand the meanings in Arabic. I could be wrong but I think the Jews do the same with the Torah. The singsong melodic reading. You're right BLC. So too with those religions that chant. Even the congregation signing hymns together can have a similar affect. Have you ever been in a religious service and have a person jump up and begin to speak in tongues? There are similarities there too. The experience is very often more than just listening to the meaning of the words but rather includes an enhanced emotional feeling that expands the believer's experience.
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Post by blc on Sept 10, 2015 1:38:19 GMT
I could be wrong but I think the Jews do the same with the Torah. The singsong melodic reading. You're right BLC. So too with those religions that chant. Even the congregation signing hymns together can have a similar affect. Have you ever been in a religious service and have a person jump up and begin to speak in tongues? There are similarities there too. The experience is very often more than just listening to the meaning of the words but rather includes an enhanced emotional feeling that expands the believer's experience. Here's a question for you. The Tower of Babel, where YHWH supposedly confounds the languages. Why? It isn't like the Tower ever had a chance of reaching Heaven. Confounding the languages or giving each group of people their own language... wouldn't that just separate people instead of uniting them? Wouldn't that make people suspicious of one another because they couldn't easily converse? I'm not sure that confounding the languages accomplished anything good.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 10, 2015 2:54:56 GMT
Hi Men an tol, information being put into Mohammeds mind that he then recited, sounds good to me and the fact that his followers, who believed that he was indeed receiving the word of God, which they then recited, sounds pretty good also. But the fly in the ointment in my opinion, is the fact that Mohammed's utterences were not written down and most of his followers who also recited were killed, so it does make you wonder if the Koran is the truth as Mohammed received it? I mentioned Jainism, because I read somewhere that Jainism was the oldest Religion I thought that ECKANKAR and Jainism must be one and the same. I know that The Religion of Light and Sound (HolySpirit) goes all the way back to the beginning of Creation. I understand your concerns Scottish Lassie and to a degree they are also mine. What we (Kafir as non-Muslims) should keep in mind is that memorization and reciting are (at least were) important in the past. The command to Muhammad (as I understand it) was to recite and he did not receive a command to write what he was given. The intent (again, as I understand it) is that the act of reciting from memorization is important and it is also preferred that such occur in the original Arabic. That is, the sounds of the Arabic language are conducive to text meaning or at least the acceptance. In fact, annually there is a large gathering of Muslims to demonstrate their (each one) command of the Qur'an through memorization and reciting. Do the words recited by Muhammad as captured and written in the Qur'an accurately reflect his recitings? We (Kafir) will never know but the followers of Islam believe it to be so. Jainism and Buddhism are sister religions, sort of like the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. Evolved from the same social environment but following different paths. Buddhism developed as a successful missionary religion and Jainism remain much smaller and is far more demanding on its followers. The founder of Jainism, Mahavira, lived (it is estimated) in the sixth century B.C.E. (although today's scholars are now leaning more to it being the fifth century B.C.E. And in this context Mahavira and Buddha were near contemporaries with several similarities. (Interesting to me is that they predate Plato by only 150 years or so.) Both were raised as princes in the Kshatriya (warrior) caste in Northern India. Both left home at the age of 30 to find spiritual fulfillment in asceticism and meditation. After six years the Buddha became enlightened and left his severe fasting. However Mahavira never gave up his ascetic practices. After twelve years of ascetic practice he reached his version of enlightenment and became a Jina (Conqueror). For those who follow this religion it is very demanding, for example none wear shoes and in one version of it none wear cloths and rely on donations of others for food and any other need. There is a lot more to this religion. Hi Men an tol, Times change, we are certainly not going to go around without shoes or clothing in these modern times, but in mentioning conquerors, that is what we in ECKANKAR try to achieve also.only we use the word Master. As we evove spiritually we are initiated into a higher state of thinking, ever closer to God's way of thinking. In other words, we master all the negativity with which we are influenced. That means rising above Anger, Lust, Pride and all the others.. The only difference is the fact that Jainism depends on others for food etc. whilst we in ECKANKAR believe that we stand on our own two feet, by being responsible for our every action. we reap what we sow.!!! Jainism also promotes love, as ECKists do.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 5:02:19 GMT
I understand your concerns Scottish Lassie and to a degree they are also mine. What we (Kafir as non-Muslims) should keep in mind is that memorization and reciting are (at least were) important in the past. The command to Muhammad (as I understand it) was to recite and he did not receive a command to write what he was given. The intent (again, as I understand it) is that the act of reciting from memorization is important and it is also preferred that such occur in the original Arabic. That is, the sounds of the Arabic language are conducive to text meaning or at least the acceptance. In fact, annually there is a large gathering of Muslims to demonstrate their (each one) command of the Qur'an through memorization and reciting. Do the words recited by Muhammad as captured and written in the Qur'an accurately reflect his recitings? We (Kafir) will never know but the followers of Islam believe it to be so. Jainism and Buddhism are sister religions, sort of like the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. Evolved from the same social environment but following different paths. Buddhism developed as a successful missionary religion and Jainism remain much smaller and is far more demanding on its followers. The founder of Jainism, Mahavira, lived (it is estimated) in the sixth century B.C.E. (although today's scholars are now leaning more to it being the fifth century B.C.E. And in this context Mahavira and Buddha were near contemporaries with several similarities. (Interesting to me is that they predate Plato by only 150 years or so.) Both were raised as princes in the Kshatriya (warrior) caste in Northern India. Both left home at the age of 30 to find spiritual fulfillment in asceticism and meditation. After six years the Buddha became enlightened and left his severe fasting. However Mahavira never gave up his ascetic practices. After twelve years of ascetic practice he reached his version of enlightenment and became a Jina (Conqueror). For those who follow this religion it is very demanding, for example none wear shoes and in one version of it none wear cloths and rely on donations of others for food and any other need. There is a lot more to this religion. Hi Men an tol, Times change, we are certainly not going to go around without shoes or clothing in these modern times, but in mentioning conquerors, that is what we in ECKANKAR try to achieve also.only we use the word Master. As we evove spiritually we are initiated into a higher state of thinking, ever closer to God's way of thinking. In other words, we master all the negativity with which we are influenced. That means rising above Anger, Lust, Pride and all the others.. The only difference is the fact that Jainism depends on others for food etc. whilst we in ECKANKAR believe that we stand on our own two feet, by being responsible for our every action. we reap what we sow.!!! Jainism also promotes love, as ECKists do. Just so you are aware Scottish Lassie, that particular sect of Jainism still do around with no clothes as it is part of their full commitment to their beliefs.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Sept 10, 2015 6:15:49 GMT
Hi Men an tol, Times change, we are certainly not going to go around without shoes or clothing in these modern times, but in mentioning conquerors, that is what we in ECKANKAR try to achieve also.only we use the word Master. As we evove spiritually we are initiated into a higher state of thinking, ever closer to God's way of thinking. In other words, we master all the negativity with which we are influenced. That means rising above Anger, Lust, Pride and all the others.. The only difference is the fact that Jainism depends on others for food etc. whilst we in ECKANKAR believe that we stand on our own two feet, by being responsible for our every action. we reap what we sow.!!! Jainism also promotes love, as ECKists do. Just so you are aware Scottish Lassie, that particular sect of Jainism still do around with no clothes as it is part of their full commitment to their beliefs. Hi Men an tol, Amazing!!! I suppose they are able to do what some Yogis are able to do, and that is to sit in the snow all night covered only by a sheet and by morning the snow around them has completely melted by the heat given off by their bodies, and being none the worse from their experience. It blows your mind what the mind is capable of!!!
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