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Post by Hunny on Mar 30, 2013 16:15:36 GMT
Judge Rules 9/11 Museum Can Include World Trade Center Cross New York (CNN) -- A New York judge has thrown out a lawsuit filed by a group of atheists, ruling that a pair of World Trade Center beams in the shape of a cross can be included in a memorial museum of the 9/11 terror attacks. American Atheists filed the lawsuit in July, arguing that the "government enshrinement of the cross" was an impermissible mingling of church and state. The World Trade Center cross, two intersecting steel beams that held up when the twin towers collapsed on September 11, 2001, is seen as iconic to some. The cross was moved in July from near a church to its new home at the 9/11 Memorial and Museum, located at ground zero in Lower Manhattan. Father Brian Jordan, a Franciscan priest who ministered to workers clearing the area after the attacks, led a ceremonial blessing of the cross. Federal Judge Deborah Batts of the Southern District of New York ruled Thursday that display of the beams is permissible because they bear historical importance. Named defendants included the museum, New Jersey, the city of New York, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie. "The museum is gratified by the decision," Mark Alcott, the lawyer for the 9/11 Memorial and Museum, told CNN on Friday. "The plan has been to display this as one of hundreds and hundreds of artifacts ... because it is part of the history of the recovery efforts after the 911 attacks. "For some of these people, [the cross] had symbolic significance," he continued, referring to first responders. "They treated it as a religious object and it gave them a great deal of comfort at a difficult time. The 9/11 museum is simply depicting what happened." David Silverman, president of American Atheists, told CNN, "We are angry that we have to have this fight." Silverman said it was clear that the cross was regarded as sacred, noting that it "was installed in a religious service on consecrated ground by a priest. How anyone could say that is secular is beyond me." September 11 "affected all Americans, not just Christians," Silverman continued. "We will not sit and let the 500 atheists who died on 9/11 go unnoticed." "We are confident that we will eventually win this case and that cross will be removed, or atheists will be allowed to have our own symbol in there," he said. www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/new-york-911-museum-cross/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2013 16:19:48 GMT
It's pretty obvious that the atheists were trying to restrict freedom of speech so I think the judge took the right decision.
Intolerant atheists are just as bad as intolerant Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus or whatever.
Why do people feel the need to impose their beliefs on everyone else?
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Mar 30, 2013 17:06:06 GMT
It's pretty obvious that the atheists were trying to restrict freedom of speech so I think the judge took the right decision. Intolerant atheists are just as bad as intolerant Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus or whatever. Why do people feel the need to impose their beliefs on everyone else? I'll bet some of the cross haters will never admit what their motivation is!
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Post by sadie1263 on Mar 30, 2013 20:19:59 GMT
Oh good grief......if they don't believe in it.....why does it bother them so much?
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Post by Hunny on Apr 1, 2013 9:58:59 GMT
Everyone wants their 'religion' to win i guess.
I'm atheist myself, but I have no problem with that cross. I guess there's a faction who have nothing better to do with their lives than make a hobby battling religion. It's a negative pursuit, one which these folks will abandon as they age. I used to try and convert the JW's that would always come to my door. One day I succeeded at de-culting a couple people, and it was surprisingly unsatisfying. In fact I felt bad about it. I had taken someone's comforting belief from them. Shame on me. Let folks have whatever thoughts they need that get them through.
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Post by sadie1263 on Apr 1, 2013 19:06:32 GMT
I have decided that the religion responsible for men/boys wearing pants down past their butts is offensive to me.........can we call for a ban!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 8:04:19 GMT
Everyone wants their 'religion' to win i guess. I'm atheist myself, but I have no problem with that cross. I guess there's a faction who have nothing better to do with their lives than make a hobby battling religion. It's a negative pursuit, one which these folks will abandon as they age. I used to try and convert the JW's that would always come to my door. One day I succeeded at de-culting a couple people, and it was surprisingly unsatisfying. In fact I felt bad about it. I had taken someone's comforting belief from them. Shame on me. Let folks have whatever thoughts they need that get them through. This had more to do with not wanting one religion to dominate than wanting atheism to "win". I don't think they were right, but I'm pretty sure that if something vaguely Islamic lhad been found in the wreckage, that would not have been allowed. Most Muslims would have more sense than to demand it be displayed, I think
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 13:32:54 GMT
whats to complain about this ? if it brings some comfort to those who wish to remember the victims then that is the important thing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 15:49:59 GMT
I don't think it was included for that reason; it is an item with its own history on display in a museum, and rightly so. There were no atheist, Jewish or whatever symbols discovered in the ruins, so they would have no place in the museum.
But I still maintain that if a copy of the Koran had been miraculously found intact in the ruins, no-one would want any religious significance attached to it, would they?
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Post by sadie1263 on Apr 3, 2013 2:45:17 GMT
You know......when I go to a museum.....there are some things I like.....some things I don't.........I don't immediately demand that the stuff I don't like be removed.......I skip over it and go on to something else............these people need to get a life....
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Post by Hunny on Apr 3, 2013 12:15:51 GMT
Here here.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 16:27:47 GMT
Reading the article, it seems that the atheists' main objection is its inclusion as a religious object. They are demanding atheist symbols to recognise the non-beleiver dead. But of course they won't get them, because this is a museum, and the cross will be displayed as what it is, part of the structure which survived. If the museum portrays it is no more than that (maybe also explaining its significance for Christians) I see no problem with it. However I think it would be wrong to display it in a way that invites worship of it.
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Post by Hunny on Apr 3, 2013 17:29:25 GMT
That cross is legendary. You cant get that out of Americans minds. That's why it needs to go in the museum. Along with the "lost person" notices and every other painful thing we had burned into our hearts that day. For an atheist organization to protest it is just * struggles real hard not to say "un-American" * ...
(And I'm atheist, and think that.)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 18:09:34 GMT
Agreed - subject to what I said above!
I dare say most atheists would agree with you.
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