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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 18:50:58 GMT
I'm not even sure what forgiveness means. It would be hard to rid myself of a deep hurt but yes, I might be able to understand and try to mend the relationship if my partner did the same. Is that forgiveness? I think so. And I think the hurt of it would take time, and his regaining your confidence, to heal. ___________________ I think I understand not being sure what forgiveness is. I had a tough time with that one. It just seemed if someone wrongs me, and I say "that's ok", well it isn't, and it wasn't, so...for many years I just concluded I "cant forgive". Forgiveness to me is like saying "it was ok what you did to me". Huh! No it wasn't, and it never will be! (lol) And to this day there are a couple people whose transgressions were so repletely disrespectful I wont ever be forgiving them. To me it just isnt a possible thing anyway, because to forgive is to absolve of guilt. How can I do that? All I can really do is if enough time goes by, I can "let go" of the bad feelings. I CAN chose to do that for someone. ...But - like a police record - what they did remains in memory, in historical fact, ever casting doubt on their character and trustworthiness. I think we're getting a few things slightly confused here. To me an affair without love isn't an afair; it's just a fling. I expect a lot of us here have had more than one partner especially in our younger days. How many of them did we actually love? If a man (or woman for that matter - according to the statistics I saw online a few months ago us girls are MORE likely to be unfaithful than our male partners) has casual sex I think you can argue that maybe it's hurtful but not threatening. I know a couple of friends where there were sort of misunderstandings about what they coul dan dcouldn't do in their relationship. He wanted to do certain things that he felt he couldn't ask his wife to do so he went off with prostitutes. When she found out she was angry and asked him why so reluctantly he explained. After that she said, well, if you want to do those things with me that's fine. And he never was unfaithful since. Now forgiveness takes many forms and many levels. One of the most moving things I ever read was when a couple of Auschwitz survivors forgave the guards who'd abused them and murdered so many other inmates including relatives of theirs. Do you think they were saying to the guards, hey, what you done to us was fine? No, they weren't doing that at all. They were saying, we're all human beings and there but for the grace of God go I and the suffering is over now so let's try and return to human life. It's NOT saying what they did was ok. It's saying IN SPITE of what you done I still forgive you. Now being unfaithful to your man or woman is hardly up theire in the same league with that kind of heavy stuff. So i wouldn't get riled up about it if my hubby was to be having sex with another woman. I'd be worried if he was having an affair though because that would mean he was falling in love with her while if she was just a quick bang it wouldn't matter because he wouldn't have feelings for her. If he was in love I'd be worried I'd lose him. And I would ask myself what Id done wrong and what she had that I didn't and try to maybe change myself to make him want only me. And if it was me having an affair I'd expect him to feel the same way and ask what he#d done wrong and how he could try to change himslef to make me want only him. So I honestly think that the 'wronged partner' needss to do more than just start slagging the man or woman off and to ask themselves if maybe in some way THEY might have been at fault and how they can mend the situation.
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Post by Hunny on Dec 23, 2012 18:59:39 GMT
Donna, everything you said was well thought, and I think correct. (except the last two sentences which, well..you should stop expecting we're going to fight you, we're not, even if you do have a different view sometimes, it's just discussion, and I just hope you know you're safe among friends here, because you are.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 19:04:20 GMT
It's the ultimate betrayal though surely? whether its sex with some one else or an emotional affair that happened purely online , that person is disrespecting you, treating you like you don't matter , its a selfish thing to do that shows you do not love your partner imo I'm not so sure that's true, Gibby. To me betraying a person is something more fundamental than just having sex with someone else. I wouldn't even see a love affair as a betrayal of me. The thing is that a lot of people see relationships in terms of some kind of ownership rather than an equal partneerships where you share yourself with each other. Being miffed about the other person having a flinfg or an affair because you think it's being disrepectful I find a weird way of looking at the world. I love my hubby and I love my kids; you can love more than one person but in different ways. Haow can love be a btetrayl of anything? I don't see how having sex with someone else is any sort of betryal on disrespe t. But maybe looking at in that way is taking a realtionship as being some form of ownership or business contract or something rather than a real thing that you have to work at and where a lot of the time your feelings get all mixed up and ambivalanent.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 19:20:28 GMT
I don't think its a weird way of looking at things at all, for example adultry is a ground for divorce, to prove that all you need is evidence that the other person had sex with someone else.
I find it weird that two people that are married to each other would tolerate the other person having sex with some one else, what's the point of being married in that case?
I havent seen any evidence of anyone"jumping on you " for your views on here? If there is , show me the evidence , otherwise all I've seen is on occasions people having a different view than yours which is perfectly fine isn't it? It would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed on everything wouldn't it?
but if I"m in a relationship I would trust that that person would remain faithful to me , that means no sex with anyone other than me, and no flings or affairs, that to me would be showing respect for me as a person.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 19:25:28 GMT
I would also add that the wronged partner is just that , if the other person wasnt happy with them and went off for sex etc elsewhere then they are the ones in the wrong, they should leave the other person not be dishonest and cheat on them!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 19:31:54 GMT
I would also add that the wronged partner is just that , if the other person wasnt happy with them and went off for sex etc elsewhere then they are the ones in the wrong, they should leave the other person not be dishonest and cheat on them! It's not that simple though is it? I keep coming back to the fact that a relationship is NOT the same thing as a possession. You don't OWN each other; you're a part of each other's lives and sometimes that means you need to cut each other a bit of slack. You seem to think that a relationship IS some kind of possession thing and I find that quite sad because it's reducing love to the same level as something you've bought down the shops.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 19:38:00 GMT
I would also add that the wronged partner is just that , if the other person wasnt happy with them and went off for sex etc elsewhere then they are the ones in the wrong, they should leave the other person not be dishonest and cheat on them! It's not that simple though is it? I keep coming back to the fact that a relationship is NOT the same thing as a possession. You don't OWN each other; you're a part of each other's lives and sometimes that means you need to cut each other a bit of slack. You seem to think that a relationship IS some kind of possession thing and I find that quite sad because it's reducing love to the same level as something you've bought down the shops. I never thought of it that way , but I did think the whole point of marriage was to be faithful to each other , otherwise it's just an "open " relationship isn't it? I suppose in a way I would expect my husband to be just that , mine!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 20:12:11 GMT
It's not that simple though is it? I keep coming back to the fact that a relationship is NOT the same thing as a possession. You don't OWN each other; you're a part of each other's lives and sometimes that means you need to cut each other a bit of slack. You seem to think that a relationship IS some kind of possession thing and I find that quite sad because it's reducing love to the same level as something you've bought down the shops. I never thought of it that way , but I did think the whole point of marriage was to be faithful to each other , otherwise it's just an "open " relationship isn't it? I suppose in a way I would expect my husband to be just that , mine! It wasn't mean as a criticism; just a thought I had. But I'm not so sure that fidelity is the most important aspect of marriage. Take the Mormons before Utah became a state; they had polygamy but they had very happy marriages. One of the weirdest statistics about the Wild West is that Utah was the ONLY part of the West that had a SURPLUS of women while all the rest had a shortage. But I only say what I feel and i'm not trying to lay down the law or anything like that!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 20:15:55 GMT
Donna, everything you said was well thought, and I think correct. (except the last two sentences which, well..you should stop expecting we're going to fight you, we're not, even if you do have a different view sometimes, it's just discussion, and I just hope you know you're safe among friends here, because you are. I'm sorry; I'll delete them because they were a bit paronoid i spose.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 21:14:23 GMT
I never thought of it that way , but I did think the whole point of marriage was to be faithful to each other , otherwise it's just an "open " relationship isn't it? I suppose in a way I would expect my husband to be just that , mine! It wasn't mean as a criticism; just a thought I had. But I'm not so sure that fidelity is the most important aspect of marriage. Take the Mormons before Utah became a state; they had polygamy but they had very happy marriages. One of the weirdest statistics about the Wild West is that Utah was the ONLY part of the West that had a SURPLUS of women while all the rest had a shortage. But I only say what I feel and i'm not trying to lay down the law or anything like that! I didn't take it as a being critical . I believe that mormons don't practice that any more , at least the ones I know don't , they believe that when you get married you are tied to that person for life and into the afterlife .
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Dec 24, 2012 12:18:40 GMT
I can't respond to the poll because this should be a case by case issue. Tiger Wood's wife is right in getting a divorce and cutting her ex off forever. Who would want to risk venereal disease with a partner, who is wild about prostitutes and always looking for new conquests!
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Post by toby on Dec 24, 2012 19:20:26 GMT
Hunny posted.:-Definition of disrespect.
Toby comments.:- I was referring to the word,'disrespecting', which is rather different and certainly not an old word, the spinoff is ,'to diss', which is even worse ! however it's only my opinion.
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Post by toby on Dec 24, 2012 19:25:02 GMT
Anna posted.:-Who would want to risk venereal disease with a partner, who is wild about prostitutes and always looking for new conquests!
Toby comments.;- Woods had his trophy Blonde wife and fathered children with her and seems to have frittered much of his fortune away on Prostitutes. I shudder when I think of the massive risks he took and if his wife did not catch anything nasty then she is bloody lucky. However you do tend to find coloured men want to impregnate as many women as possible but don't seem to be able to settle and raise a Family, it's rather sad.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2012 23:14:07 GMT
However you do tend to find coloured men want to impregnate as many women as possible but don't seem to be able to settle and raise a Family, it's rather sad. There IS something truthful about your statement.A couple years ago I was watching Judge Judy(a tv show in the US).There was a black dude "dressed to the nines".The judge asked how many children he had(a regular question she asks) He responded by saying he has 13 children.She then asked how many mothers,he said 9,
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Post by jean on Dec 25, 2012 11:34:22 GMT
Just a small comment Gibby. Why not use the word, 'slighted', instead of ,'disrespecting'. To use the word respect is quite OK but 'disrespecting 'is a recently manufactured word and to be honest it is an ugly word. That's just my opinion of course but I believe that ,'disrespecting', was conjoured up by folk with very little grasp of the English Language. ...the word,'disrespecting', which is rather different and certainly not an old word... Not so: 1614 G. Wither Sat. to King , Juvenilia (1633) 346 Here can I smile to see..how the mean mans suit is dis-respected.
1633 Bp. J. Hall Plaine Explic. Hard Texts ii. 11 If he love the one, hee must disrespect the other.
1683 W. Cave Ecclesiastici 231 (Basil) To honor him, and dis-respect his Friend, was to stroke a man's head with one hand, and strike him with the other.
1706 T. Hearne Remarks & Coll. 26 Apr., He was disrespected in Oxford by several men who now speak well of him.
1852 L. Hunt Poems Pref. 27 As if..sorrow disrespected things homely.
1885 G. Meredith Diana of Crossways I. 257 You will judge whether he disrespects me.What toby was objecting to was disrespect as a verb; the examples Hunny gave above were of the noun, which has never dropped out of use, but the verb also goes back to the C17. (Sensible people know better than to attempt pedantry when I am around.)
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Post by sadie1263 on Dec 25, 2012 15:31:49 GMT
I went looking to see what statistics I could find to back up or prove wrong Toby's statement.......I found one from two years ago.... It did state that blacks had a 72% unwed mother rate.........yikes......the statistics are pretty bad.......I don't know that it intentionally to impregnate as many as possible........think many are very young and just don't think about the ramifications of sleeping around........just having fun and living for the moment...... www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39993685/ns/health-womens_health/t/blacks-struggle-percent-unwed-mothers-rate/#.UNnFz6VFXVU
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 18:38:47 GMT
Hunny posted.:-Definition of disrespect. Toby comments.:- I was referring to the word,'disrespecting', which is rather different and certainly not an old word, the spinoff is ,'to diss', which is even worse ! however it's only my opinion. oh chillax Toby lol
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Post by zoey on Dec 30, 2012 2:30:19 GMT
I could forgive an affair- but would not forget nor would I ever sleep with the person again. The relationship would be over, but I wouldn't hold on to any long term hatred. It would be an immediate turn off plus would kill the relationship and the trust.
I like the idea of a man being with me because he "wants" me. I would be forever turned off by a man who cheated on me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 4:44:53 GMT
I could forgive an affair- but would not forget nor would I ever sleep with the person again. The relationship would be over, but I wouldn't hold on to any long term hatred. It would be an immediate turn off plus would kill the relationship and the trust. I like the idea of a man being with me because he "wants" me. I would be forever turned off by a man who cheated on me. Oh boy,here comes drama Alll moderators better be "on their toes"
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Post by zoey on Dec 30, 2012 5:26:25 GMT
I could forgive an affair- but would not forget nor would I ever sleep with the person again. The relationship would be over, but I wouldn't hold on to any long term hatred. It would be an immediate turn off plus would kill the relationship and the trust. I like the idea of a man being with me because he "wants" me. I would be forever turned off by a man who cheated on me. Oh boy,here comes drama Alll moderators better be "on their toes" Haha
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