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Post by chefmate on Jan 10, 2009 3:13:33 GMT
I'm not sure if any other death row has a set of brothers at the same time but San Quentin has and I am curious as to the appeals process and if they both run out at the same time, would there be a double execution?
One brother had five death sentences and the other has three death sentences and two lwops so I'm just curious what the end result will be.
The older one who was the ringleader and mastermind, still preaches to visitors and sings and that is creepy as hell knowing what he did and how he sucked two others into his evil plans.
I cannot imagine having one son, brother, uncle, father or cousin on death row but two at the same time must be hard on the parents and believe me, the mom visits quite regularly and remains upbeat in spite of all that has been thrown at her.
I'm just curious on the pros attitude towards what could possibly be a double execution or am I wrong and off track?
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 10, 2009 16:11:55 GMT
Thanks for posting that, Cheffie. Funnily enough on another board yesterday an anti who's one of my best online friends told me about THREE brothers who are arrested and facing the possibility of the death penalty.
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Post by swl on Jan 14, 2009 19:11:02 GMT
Excuse my ignorance, but what's a "litalian"? A life sentence?
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Post by chefmate on Jan 16, 2009 15:39:27 GMT
Excuse my ignorance, but what's a "litalian"? A life sentence? oh geesh!!! I was trying to type two life sentences and guess my fingers took on a life of their own
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Post by cammie on Jan 17, 2009 5:24:11 GMT
Two brothers on death row? Now THAT'S evidence of a reallyyyyyyy moral upbringing. The mom shoulda taught her sons the difference between right and wrong IF she raised them. Sure, there will be dark souls, bad apples... but something's wrong with this picture!
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Post by pumpkinette on Jan 17, 2009 11:27:30 GMT
Two brothers on death row? Now THAT'S evidence of a reallyyyyyyy moral upbringing. The mom shoulda taught her sons the difference between right and wrong IF she raised them. Sure, there will be dark souls, bad apples... but something's wrong with this picture! So, automatically, it's the mother's fault? Aren't assumptions just GREAT? Just curious, did you bother to take the time to check out the history on this case? Oh, I forgot. That isn't usually done because it's always easier to just assume the worst about people! FYI, there's at least a few murderers who HAD decent, caring parents. So, there goes your blanket statement! ;D
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 17, 2009 11:30:38 GMT
Well said Pumpkinette. Have a K.
Sure there are some mothers out there who are cruel, stupid, and generally don't bring their kids up right.
But most of us struggle on and do the best we can. We might not be perfect, but we do our very best to teach our kids the difference between right and wrong.
Nobody ever looks at a really successful person and say 'hey, s/he must have had a GREAT Mother', but soon as a person commits a crime the mother is blamed.
Just old-fashioned sexism?
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Post by pumpkinette on Jan 17, 2009 11:54:15 GMT
Well said Pumpkinette. Have a K. Sure there are some mothers out there who are cruel, stupid, and generally don't bring their kids up right. But most of us struggle on and do the best we can. We might not be perfect, but we do our very best to teach our kids the difference between right and wrong. Nobody ever looks at a really successful person and say 'hey, s/he must have had a GREAT Mother', but soon as a person commits a crime the mother is blamed. Just old-fashioned sexism? Dear riotgrrl, I think sexism IS a part of it, yes. It's also EASIER to just assume the worst about ALL murderers' parents. It's the easy way out. If you assume the worst, then you can EXCUSE the laziness and uncaring of NOT checking out the history of a murder case. I really get furious at these blanket statements, because I'm the child of a murderer. My family DISPROVES that crap that all family members of murderers are scum. My brothers and I have NEVER committed any murder and never done any violent crimes either. Just my family ALONE disproves these totally UNFAIR, ARROGANT, LAZY blanket statements. Of course, it's possible these men had bad parents! It's also possible they DIDN'T. It's not fair to just assume the worst about their families. Thanks for you kind words and the K! I don't think I know you from any other boards, but have been impressed with you here as you have an open mind, your heart isn't hard and you don't assume the worst about people without proof.
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Post by drewsmom595 on Jan 17, 2009 20:30:43 GMT
People, not their parents, are responsible for their own crimes, the choices they make and the peers they hang around with. I firmly believe that people give WAY too much credit to parents when kids do good or bad things.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 17, 2009 20:46:07 GMT
I don't deny that bad parents can make it more likely that a kid will run off the rails or go to the bad or just become choked up with anger and bitterness that can lead to disastrous consequences.
On the other hand, I had loving parents and I still ran off the rails; my hubby had the parents from hell and he turned out OK.
Basically, most kids are capable of knowing when they're doing wrong and although bad parents can certainly make things worse it's too simplistic to use that as a blanket excuse.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 17, 2009 20:47:03 GMT
there are many, many parents who teach the kids right, but the kids just choose to be garbage. that is never the parent's fault. of course, supporting the kids in that choice, is another matter
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 17, 2009 22:13:27 GMT
there are many, many parents who teach the kids right, but the kids just choose to be garbage. that is never the parent's fault. of course, supporting the kids in that choice, is another matter Jumbo, I thought you were a Christian man? Hate the sin, love the sinner. Not complicated.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 17, 2009 22:17:35 GMT
I don't deny that bad parents can make it more likely that a kid will run off the rails or go to the bad or just become choked up with anger and bitterness that can lead to disastrous consequences. On the other hand, I had loving parents and I still ran off the rails; my hubby had the parents from hell and he turned out OK. Basically, most kids are capable of knowing when they're doing wrong and although bad parents can certainly make things worse it's too simplistic to use that as a blanket excuse. I'm pleased to read you say that Lin, as my 2nd daughter is getting herself into big-time trouble at present (she's 15.) And even her 'workers' who are trying to help us all to help her admit that there are no problems with her home life and parenting; the problems are in her peer group and life choices. Her older sister is going to Uni this year, and is predicted to get five As at Highers. (For those of you unfamiliar with the Scottish education system, Five As at Higher is the best you can get). She is expected to be one of the contenders for the Dux of the School (an award they give to the 16 yr old with the highest academic acheivements.) It's hard to be the little sister of a genius. And you can't compete academically. My heart breaks for my younger daughter, at the same time as I want to break her F-ing neck for the stupid choices she makes and the stupid things she does. I don't really want to spend the rest of my life visiting my child in prison, but if that's how it all ends up, that's what I'm going to do.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 18, 2009 12:27:24 GMT
there are many, many parents who teach the kids right, but the kids just choose to be garbage. that is never the parent's fault. of course, supporting the kids in that choice, is another matter Jumbo, I thought you were a Christian man? Hate the sin, love the sinner. Not complicated. not complicated at all. you should love them to death
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 18, 2009 12:31:53 GMT
I don't deny that bad parents can make it more likely that a kid will run off the rails or go to the bad or just become choked up with anger and bitterness that can lead to disastrous consequences. On the other hand, I had loving parents and I still ran off the rails; my hubby had the parents from hell and he turned out OK. Basically, most kids are capable of knowing when they're doing wrong and although bad parents can certainly make things worse it's too simplistic to use that as a blanket excuse. I'm pleased to read you say that Lin, as my 2nd daughter is getting herself into big-time trouble at present (she's 15.) And even her 'workers' who are trying to help us all to help her admit that there are no problems with her home life and parenting; the problems are in her peer group and life choices. Her older sister is going to Uni this year, and is predicted to get five As at Highers. (For those of you unfamiliar with the Scottish education system, Five As at Higher is the best you can get). She is expected to be one of the contenders for the Dux of the School (an award they give to the 16 yr old with the highest academic acheivements.) It's hard to be the little sister of a genius. And you can't compete academically. My heart breaks for my younger daughter, at the same time as I want to break her F-ing neck for the stupid choices she makes and the stupid things she does. I don't really want to spend the rest of my life visiting my child in prison, but if that's how it all ends up, that's what I'm going to do. you are the classic example then. i doubt that you raised the younger one any different than you did the eldest. as with EVERYTHING in life, it is solely individual choice. most choose to be real people, some choose to be trash. parents can only train correctly.
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Post by chefmate51 on Jan 18, 2009 20:05:53 GMT
Two brothers on death row? Now THAT'S evidence of a reallyyyyyyy moral upbringing. The mom shoulda taught her sons the difference between right and wrong IF she raised them. Sure, there will be dark souls, bad apples... but something's wrong with this picture! Bullcrap!!!! Blaming the parents is low and and easy way to not have to examine what went wrong. I have met this mother and she is a sweet lady with two sons who got caught up in a damnable cult [mormans] and twisted the bits of truth that is taught in that so called church. I HATE someone blaming the parents as these guys were old enough to know right from wrong and sometimes no matter how moral you raise your children, some will go wrong and that doesn't reflect on the parents.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 18, 2009 21:15:09 GMT
Two brothers on death row? Now THAT'S evidence of a reallyyyyyyy moral upbringing. The mom shoulda taught her sons the difference between right and wrong IF she raised them. Sure, there will be dark souls, bad apples... but something's wrong with this picture! Bullcrap!!!! Blaming the parents is low and and easy way to not have to examine what went wrong. I have met this mother and she is a sweet lady with two sons who got caught up in a damnable cult [mormans] and twisted the bits of truth that is taught in that so called church. I HATE someone blaming the parents as these guys were old enough to know right from wrong and sometimes no matter how moral you raise your children, some will go wrong and that doesn't reflect on the parents. If you were a parent you would understand more but since you are not; you have no idea how it really is. that's what we've been saying. if the parent teaches the kid right, NO blame can be laid at their feet. it is totally on the kid.
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Post by chefmate51 on Jan 18, 2009 21:32:17 GMT
These were grown up men with some skewered thinking brought on by a skewed up cult they were raised in; now do all Mormons kill? No, so we can't blame the religion nor the parents for teaching them what they believe to be the truth.
This mother loves her sons and supports them; while we may not agree we really don't know what we would do in this type of case.
I still wonder if they will be executed fairly close together or if the appeals will take different amounts of time seeing how they got different sentences.
Everytime I see a reciprocating saw I get the willies thinking that is what this bunch used to cut the victims up before putting them in duffle bags and throwing them in the river.
I cannot even imagine doing that sort of thing; it just does not compute.
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Post by cammie on Jan 19, 2009 0:36:32 GMT
It is the responsibility of parents to teach their children right from wrong. Adults who are immoral enough to murder in cold blood have something wrong with them. So, were these two ever taught it was WRONG to cut ppl up like a side of beef? Maybe the "sweet" nature of their mother just somehow totally escaped BOTH brothers. Eyeroll! ______________________ Yeah, I'm sure this "sweet" mom is proud of giving birth to two murdering thugs. You cannot tell me that by having met a person and seeing their immediate projected persona vs really knowing what kind of parenting skills they used over the years, you know their nature. Most anyone can project a false front. _________________ Maybe their mom is sweet, maybe she is not. Her two demon-boys sure aren't sweet! I blame the murderers for the murder(s) they commit, not their mom. That's why THEY are on DR, and the mom is not. _____________________ Then again, not everyone is the best judge of character. What is acceptable to one person may not be acceptable to another as evidenced in the company one keeps.
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Post by swl on Jan 19, 2009 0:56:51 GMT
This is something I've looked into a bit. There was a huge longitudinal study done in Denmark that looked at adopted kids. They found a statistical significant correlation between the criminal histories of biological parents and children, even when they had been seperated at birth and brought up in non-criminal households.
The evidence was particularly strong in the cases of severe criminality in the biological mother and daughter.
This is something that science has veered away from due to the knee-jerk cry of eugenics and all the Nazi connotations, but there is a growing body of evidence that there is a genetic link to crime as well as the obvious social factors.
There was a case recently where a rapist met his father for the first time in prison, where he was also serving a sentence for sex crimes.
I don't know why it's so surprising. How many times do we see a child exhibit a characteristic to be told "Oh, he gets that from his dad"?
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