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Post by cammie on Feb 6, 2009 4:45:14 GMT
I would have left Germany too. Anna's mother was eaten up from the inside, and that I believe in itself manifests in cancer and other diseases.
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 22, 2009 0:56:26 GMT
While I clearly can empathize with the mother's rage, I still think what she did is morally and legally wrong. you get to be half right. it was legally wrong, but absolutely morally right
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 13:21:08 GMT
These paragraph from the opening post intrigued me.
"The evidence against the sex offender was overwhelming and so instead of trying to claim innocence he used a particularly evil tactic very common among such predators. The predator proceeded to cruelly lie claiming that he was the victim because the 7 year old girl flirted with him and tried to blackmail him for money by threatening to tell that he touched her indecently. The predator also slandered this little murdered girl by claiming that she offered to show the predator how her father fondled ( abused ) her and asked him if he wanted to do that too.
A year later Anna's mother Marianna Bachmeier, brokenhearted and horrified that she was expected to dignify the predator's evil slander with her testimony........."
The last paragraph suggests that she was being called as a witness for the defence against her husband, and could also imply that she killed to save herself from having to go through this ordeal. I have tried to do a search on the internet but the only places where such a suggestion is made is on other forums where an identical wording is used.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 23, 2009 14:14:51 GMT
These paragraph from the opening post intrigued me. "The evidence against the sex offender was overwhelming and so instead of trying to claim innocence he used a particularly evil tactic very common among such predators. The predator proceeded to cruelly lie claiming that he was the victim because the 7 year old girl flirted with him and tried to blackmail him for money by threatening to tell that he touched her indecently. The predator also slandered this little murdered girl by claiming that she offered to show the predator how her father fondled ( abused ) her and asked him if he wanted to do that too.
A year later Anna's mother Marianna Bachmeier, brokenhearted and horrified that she was expected to dignify the predator's evil slander with her testimony........."The last paragraph suggests that she was being called as a witness for the defence against her husband, and could also imply that she killed to save herself from having to go through this ordeal. I have tried to do a search on the internet but the only places where such a suggestion is made is on other forums where an identical wording is used. Marianne Bachmeier was seperated from Anna's father. Anna hardly knew her father. It's sad how the lies of these predators can dupe so many! Such predators enjoy lying almost as much as they enjoy their schemes of sadism and murder!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 15:31:59 GMT
Well, I'm not sure that's what the man was saying at all, Anna, and that's my point. There seem to be a lot of myths and mysteries over the case; I've found suggestions that far from being a loving mother, Marianne may have been a rather callous one, because of her own abused childhood.
Had the defendant tried to claim that the child was teasing him in some way, that would hardly amount to a defence anyway, would it?
But more importantly, why does the report say "Marianna Bachmeier, brokenhearted and horrified that she was expected to dignify the predator's evil slander with her testimony........." In what way? That suggests she was being called as a witness, and if the child hardly saw her father she could have put paid to that suggestion quite smartly.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 24, 2009 4:20:39 GMT
Well, I'm not sure that's what the man was saying at all, Anna, and that's my point. There seem to be a lot of myths and mysteries over the case; I've found suggestions that far from being a loving mother, Marianne may have been a rather callous one, because of her own abused childhood. Had the defendant tried to claim that the child was teasing him in some way, that would hardly amount to a defence anyway, would it? But more importantly, why does the report say "Marianna Bachmeier, brokenhearted and horrified that she was expected to dignify the predator's evil slander with her testimony........." In what way? That suggests she was being called as a witness, and if the child hardly saw her father she could have put paid to that suggestion quite smartly. Marianne Bachmeier had a very abusive father, who was a member of the SS, during WW2! She had a hard life, but wanted her daughter to be spared the abuses she suffered! When she visited her daughter in the morgue she felt the suffering that her daughter endured and promised her daughter that the monster that hurt her so much would never hurt another child! In her book she wrote that she almost broke her promise, but the evil lies that the monster tried spreading about her daughter were too much! In Germany this predator would be on the streets again had Mrs. Bachmeier let the German court deal with the predator! It's extremely rare for anyone to serve over 20 years in a German prison. Only political murderers like the nine time murderer and terrorist Christian Klar, who was recently released are the exception!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 24, 2009 4:48:47 GMT
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianne_Bachmeier Marianne and Anna Bachmeier are buried together in the Burgtor Cemetery in the Northern German city of Lübeck! I'm sure the political machinery here is hoping they can soon plow under the last resting place of Marianne and her daughter Anna! It's very politically incorrect to honor the memories of this mother and her daughter! I find it strange that many would applaud the "illegal assassination" of a political criminal, like Hitler, but condemn the assassination of a sadistic monster who would be prowling the streets again, if Marianne didn't keep the promise she made to her daughter!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2009 7:30:38 GMT
Yes, i found the Wiki entry too, but so far as i can see (and I had to struggle with the on-line translation) there was no suggestion that Marianne was being called as a witness, or that the defendant was making the allegations claimed in the opening post. But it sounds as if you have read her book, which would give more detail.
The fact that she produced a gun and shot him is clearly true; I'm just having problems separating the facts from the fiction!
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Post by trubble on Apr 24, 2009 8:05:46 GMT
Why are you sure of that?
I'm sure that people have compassion.
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Post by trubble on Apr 24, 2009 8:17:12 GMT
Actually i believe these predators must be permanently segregrated from society. As an aside, I watched a Louis Theroux programme about California's system of keeping recidivist paedophiles in a secure unit indefinitely. The men have already served their sentences but instead of being released (their legal right!) they are judged as a danger and sent to this facility until they can show they aren't a danger. Some people argue that it's illegal. They run a voluntary rehab programme there so there's a way out if the men are successful. (More men have left the unit through legal challenges than the rehab.) It's effectively permanent segregation - an interesting concept. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8004064.stm
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2009 9:20:47 GMT
According to at least one report I read,. Anna's putative killer had undergone a voluntary castration. Yet the OP tells us Anna was raped. I am confused.
No-one seems to seriously doubt that he was her killer, but it would have been better if all the facts came out in the trial instead of in bits and bobs and fictionalised accounts. There seem to have been numerous dramas written, but is there a solid account of the truth? I don't trust autobiographies much more than dramas for giing us these!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 24, 2009 15:28:15 GMT
According to at least one report I read,. Anna's putative killer had undergone a voluntary castration. Yet the OP tells us Anna was raped. I am confused. No-one seems to seriously doubt that he was her killer, but it would have been better if all the facts came out in the trial instead of in bits and bobs and fictionalised accounts. There seem to have been numerous dramas written, but is there a solid account of the truth? I don't trust autobiographies much more than dramas for giing us these! It's true the predator agreed to castration to get out of prison early for prior sexual attacks on children! He found a doctor who prescribed him testosterone to restore his "drive" and then he started stalking 7 year old Anna!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 24, 2009 15:32:21 GMT
Why are you sure of that? I'm sure that people have compassion. Marianne Bachmeier represents the view that so called "law and order" isn't always "law and order". Governments as a rule feel threatened by this viewpoint!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2009 18:34:30 GMT
The man she shot hadn't even been convicted, had he? She could at least have waited for a verdict.
As it stands, in law she killed an innocent man.
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Post by Liberator on Apr 24, 2009 23:44:12 GMT
How did castration ever stop anybody from killing another person? Throughout history eunuchs have been the preferred torturers. It kind of follows that denying men sex just might make them resentful.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 25, 2009 4:34:46 GMT
How did castration ever stop anybody from killing another person? Throughout history eunuchs have been the preferred torturers. It kind of follows that denying men sex just might make them resentful. True Ratarse! The sadism is the main drive in these predators! The policy in Germany of releasing violent sexual offenders if they agree to castration or take testosterone blocking drugs has failed miserably!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 25, 2009 4:39:10 GMT
The man she shot hadn't even been convicted, had he? She could at least have waited for a verdict. As it stands, in law she killed an innocent man. The predator had already confessed and the evidence was absolutely overwhelming..I hope i don't have to repeat all the evil lies that the predator spread about Anna to "justify" him murdering her!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2009 7:33:48 GMT
You mentioned them in the opening post, Anna. But as I said before, a google search fails to produce much except reviews of the various dramas about the case, which are hardly reliable sources for the truth.
Wiki does mention that the defendant was claiming that Anna threatened to blackmail him, but doesn't say he was calling Marianne as a witness.
One of the fictionalised accounts tries to make out that Mrianne was in the process of giving Anna up for adoption (as she has doen withher first two children). Wiki doesn't confirm this, merely saying(from what I can make out!) that Anna was playing truant from school to spite her mother when she was abducted. So it is hard to separate the various accounts.
(In a roundabout way, I'm asking you - where did you get your information from?)
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 26, 2009 4:54:50 GMT
You mentioned them in the opening post, Anna. But as I said before, a google search fails to produce much except reviews of the various dramas about the case, which are hardly reliable sources for the truth. Wiki does mention that the defendant was claiming that Anna threatened to blackmail him, but doesn't say he was calling Marianne as a witness. One of the fictionalised accounts tries to make out that Mrianne was in the process of giving Anna up for adoption (as she has doen withher first two children). Wiki doesn't confirm this, merely saying(from what I can make out!) that Anna was playing truant from school to spite her mother when she was abducted. So it is hard to separate the various accounts. (In a roundabout way, I'm asking you - where did you get your information from?) Many of the facts about the Bachmeier case are from German language news accounts! Very little has been translated into English! Do a Google search of Marianne Bachmeier on www.google.de and you'll find some my German language sources. A lot of newspaper and magazine articles are not online.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 26, 2009 5:44:40 GMT
www.amazon.com/Judgment-Day-Ellie-Nesler-Story/dp/B000O785W4The Ellie Nesler case occured in the US! There are some important differences in the case! Ellie Nesler's actions of shooting the predator, who abused her son, led her to being seperated from him! Her son suffered emotionally from this seperation. My heart would vote for loving mother in this case, but my mind would have to vote for vigilante because of the problems Elie Nesler's son suffered while his mother was caught in the judical machinery! The film presentation of the Nesler case is heartbreaking! Such courtroom shootings would reoccur, if it wasn't for the metal detectors and security procedures to protect accused child molestors, after the Bachmeier and Nesler cases!
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