♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 5, 2012 7:05:34 GMT
www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/04/mayor-defends-war-memorial-after-group-calls-for-removal-cross/ QUOTE: Mayor defends war memorial after group calls for removal of crossA mayor has come to the defense of a war memorial that features religious symbols and prayers after a national group called for the cross to be removed. “The Firefighter’s Prayer” is a 91-year-old memorial in a Rhode Island city that honors hometown soldiers who paid the ultimate sacrifice defending their country during World War I and II, MyFoxBoston.com reports. It has stood in the parking lot of the Woonsocket fire station for decades with no complaints, until earlier this year when the Freedom from Religion Foundation called for it to be stripped of the cross, claiming it violates the First Amendment’s freedom of religion clause. The group also wants the Woonsocket Fire Department to remove “The Firefighter’s Prayer” and a picture of an angel from its website. “We ask that you immediately remove the cross from the Fire Station parking lot and remove the prayer and angel from the Woonsocket Fire Department website,” the foundation’s senior staff attorney, Rebecca Market, wrote in a letter to Woonsocket officials earlier this year. But at an event Friday, Mayor Leo Fontaine reaffirmed earlier statements that the group’s request will not be met without a fight. “We will defend this monument no matter what,” he told MyFoxBoston.com. Fontaine said the monument is a symbol of the community, and the city is prepared to fight to keep the monument where it stands. While the city is currently facing the possibility of bankruptcy, residents have rallied to raise $18,500 for a defense fund should the Freedom from Religion Foundation decide to file a lawsuit. Fontaine has said that the city will not remove the cross, “under any circumstances.”
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Post by Hunny on Aug 5, 2012 11:58:47 GMT
mm...I don't like seeing crosses everywhere myself. It's obnoxious. It's a constant reminder of how embarrassingly backward we are. And if they are to be allowed then why not also some nice red statues of Lucifer? Or perhaps Scientology symbols all over the place?? See my objection? People put these on roadsides where accidents have happened, then the damn things stay there perpetually, and I always feel like pulling over and removing them! The town didn't approve the use of our land for those things. Temporarily, while people grieve, sure. But after a point, they become just free billboards for the church. ..on town land, without permit, without the approval of the townspeople which includes many who DISapprove of these things as illegal and untidy eyesores.
While I'm at it...I also have a problem with the ringing of church bells, which amounts to making a noise so loud it can be heard blocks away. If any OTHER business were to advertise ITS wares this way, they'd get shut down for a noise complaint.
Don't misunderstand me, to ring bells briefly ONCE on a Sunday morning is a quaint tradition, and ok - but many churches ring the foolish things daily, and the one near me, does it morning noon and night daily. Well noise bothers me, and that's just noise. It wrangles my nerves and irritates me perpetually, like some never-ending method of psychological torture. (I've actually been woken up at 5:00 AM by them). Should I "call the cops on God"? mm? File a noise complaint? Trust me, I thought about it, and eventually would have, but then that church went under from lack of attendance, so now I hear blissful silence which is all I want to hear! But the experience has left me aware that allowing church bell ringing ought to be re-examined..regulated, they should be allowed to ring them once on Sunday morning briefly and at no other time. Some of us have houses nearby, you know?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 13:26:23 GMT
We should ban traffic too. That is a far more irritating noise than church bells - which I like if I'm not too close to them.
Church clocks (and it tends to be clocks, not bells) ringing every hour day and night have been the subject of courts action - and have usually won.
Leave the cross where it is. It has been there a long time, and I see no harm in it. Control new ones though.
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Post by trubble on Aug 5, 2012 15:43:53 GMT
I love the sound of bells pealing. V pretty mostly. (Not too often, mind). I'm not keen on the Angelus because it's not a particularly uplifting sound - just a monotone donging for 60 seconds - but instead of scrapping it I would defend it as useful even to the non-religious as a minute of reflection or centering. No need to throw babies out with the bathwater unless they are really, really, really ugly babies. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus - call to prayer en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Angelus - Irish TV/radio broadcast
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Post by Hunny on Aug 5, 2012 16:06:11 GMT
We should ban traffic too. That is a far more irritating noise than church bells - which I like if I'm not too close to them. Church clocks (and it tends to be clocks, not bells) ringing every hour day and night have been the subject of courts action - and have usually won. Leave the cross where it is. It has been there a long time, and I see no harm in it. Control new ones though. The church near me had someone playing the organ along with the bells as they rang out songs over a large PA system in the tower...and...well her organ-playing left something to be desired. It was discordant and -to quote Jerry Seinfeld- she "got jiggy with it"... It started with a decision to do Christmas carols that way, for Christmas, but the problem became that in April the carols were still playing -for 12 minute intervals -five times a day (on some days also at 5:00 AM). I kept wanting to complain, but - as many people do- assumed someone else would soon enough. Well ...no one of us did, even though you had to wonder if the woman had died in there and the bells were left on automatic (Oh Little Church of Bethlehem in APRIL! For Pete's sake). I finally went there one day to say something to them, instead of getting all mean and legal about it, but I found that a new church was taking over the building and they don't ring any bells (yay! ;D
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Post by Hunny on Aug 5, 2012 16:19:27 GMT
...I'm not keen on the Angelus because it's not a particularly uplifting sound - just a monotone donging for 60 seconds - but instead of scrapping it I would defend it as useful even to the non-religious as a minute of reflection or centering. Well, what you're suggesting there is that non-Christians should be forced to observe your religious ritual. That's not ok. And those bells didn't give me "pause for reflection and centering". The only thing their repeating din made me feel was jarred and increasingly irritated, same as I would be if the neighbors were blasting loud terrible music into my living room for me to have no choice but to hear. I do recognize you probably mean just Sunday morning bells, whereas i was treated to 12 minutes of nonsense, five times daily. Well, like i said it'd be ok if the bells were rung once, briefly, on Sunday morning. (Though... to some extent, I still question how folks would feel if the Dry Cleaner started blasting stuff over a PA to advertise what he sells, ya know? (Yep. The church is just another business to me, and their bells are simply meant to call in their patrons.) *shrug* So quaintness of tradition aside, I see the church as enjoying special exception to noise standards. And I don't experience it as "quaint". I experience it as a perpetual reminder that we are primitive enough to still believe in superstitions devised by men living in caves. (no offense intended)( I'm just describing how i receive it) In spite of that though, sure ring 'em on Sunday. Just Sunday. It seems only fair that every group be allowed to pursue its interest...if it isn't invasive.
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Post by sadie1263 on Aug 5, 2012 16:34:55 GMT
I don't understand if it is a symbol to a person and doesn't mean anything to that person how it could be offensive?
There is a palm reading place here in town....she has bright neon signs and all sorts of stuff outside her establishment.....been there for years.......I don't believe in that.....but it doesn't phase me to see it....I barely glance at it.....
I don't understand how a cross forces anyone to pray or believe in anything......it only means something to the people that believe in it.
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Post by Hunny on Aug 5, 2012 17:52:26 GMT
I don't understand if it is a symbol to a person and doesn't mean anything to that person how it could be offensive? There is a palm reading place here in town....she has bright neon signs and all sorts of stuff outside her establishment.....been there for years.......I don't believe in that.....but it doesn't phase me to see it....I barely glance at it..... I don't understand how a cross forces anyone to pray or believe in anything......it only means something to the people that believe in it. My area is littered with large white wooden crosses which people erect at accident scenes. They're fine during a period of grieving, but the mourners never take them down, so they become just advertisements for Christianity. Advertisements that will be permanently displayed in oddball places. And people keep putting up more of these, so that here there and every where are grief monuments that don't get taken down. I don't mean to be insensitive, but they're depressing. It's like running into a candle ceremony site that never gets taken down, and you have to feel quiet and respectful and sad, and then you get around the corner and there's another one, and another one, and another one... Well, candle ceremonies get cleaned up after a while generally. And so should these cross sites, for they are that same ritual. (I'm in a hilly, densely populated area, so there are a lot of accidents, and someone started this habit at some point, and it caught on, so that now every time someone dies in a car their family goes out and buys a white cross to erect on the roadside, as if that's what they're supposed to do. So there is no small number of these here. It kind of needs to be addressed.) So to understand why a cross could be offensive to those who don't believe, well, there's that. There's people trying to use the roadsides as graveyards. ( I think of it as a form of spam, because these people know what they're advertising.) Of course your question here is about the cross in the article, and I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a legitimate monument. And atheists that go around trying to have any and all signs of religion taken down are just trying to eliminate religion by wiping out any visible signs of it. That's not right. People have a right to believe and worship and build things within reason. I'd call myself a-theist, yes, but it only means "NOT religious". It doesn't mean "AGAINST religion". I only get offended if it invades my peace... To each their own other than that.
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Post by chips on Aug 5, 2012 18:22:18 GMT
Old Rugged Cross - Anne Murray
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Post by arbuthnotperiwink on Aug 5, 2012 19:48:40 GMT
I used to ring church bells when I was (and still am) an atheist!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 20:26:40 GMT
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 5, 2012 21:07:46 GMT
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Post by chips on Aug 6, 2012 2:18:51 GMT
A cross usually means someone has made a sacrifice or is a comforting symbol to those that have lost loved ones. However, it doesn't surprise me that athiests in 'loony tunes' land are demanding the removal. They have driven the cross out of their courts. out of their schools, even killed Christmas ( Happy Holidays indeed!) Strikes me that athiests are a miserable lot of buggers with little joy or respect in their hearts for anything but to cause misery to their neighbours. When my time comes to climb the ladder to the Pearly Gates, I hope I can sit there for a couple of years and watch the crest fallen faces of athiests as St Peter slams the Gates firmly closed, miserable sods!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 7:32:03 GMT
Oh dear, Chips, what a gloomy view of atheists. To judge us all on the basis of a few misguided activitists would be as unfair as judging Christians by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.
Look up humanism to get a different perspective. If you don't believe in an afterlife, enjoyment of this world is all-important, and you will find many atheists who strive to improve the lot of others.
You may of course arrive at the Pearly Gates to find a load of woad-covered Druids standing the other side, dancing around in the nuddy and thumbing their noses at you!
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Post by chips on Aug 7, 2012 6:26:23 GMT
Oh dear, Chips, what a gloomy view of atheists. To judge us all on the basis of a few misguided activitists would be as unfair as judging Christians by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church. Look up humanism to get a different perspective. If you don't believe in an afterlife, enjoyment of this world is all-important, and you will find many atheists who strive to improve the lot of others. You may of course arrive at the Pearly Gates to find a load of woad-covered Druids standing the other side, dancing around in the nuddy and thumbing their noses at you! ;D I realise you don't yet know me but I feel I owe you an explanation 1. I'm Australian and we say what we think without pussy footing around and what we say is usually direct. 2 A lot of times I make controversial posts to draw a reaction because I'm a highly qualified 'sh*t stirrer'. I really need a good/bad woman to keep me under control, are you applying for the position?
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Post by sadie1263 on Aug 7, 2012 12:16:00 GMT
;D I realise you don't yet know me but I feel I owe you an explanation 1. I'm Australian and we say what we think without pussy footing around and what we say is usually direct. 2 A lot of times I make controversial posts to draw a reaction because I'm a highly qualified 'sh*t stirrer'. I really need a good/bad woman to keep me under control, are you applying for the position? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by chips on Aug 9, 2012 11:42:58 GMT
Sadie. you're so wicked
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