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Post by sadie1263 on Mar 2, 2012 17:20:07 GMT
Anders Behring Breivik prosecutor says may accept Norway gunman not responsible A Norwegian prosecutor said on Friday he was conditionally ready to accept that Anders Behring Breivik, the gunman who killed 77 people in twin attacks last July was not criminally responsible for his actions. REUTERS 4:47PM GMT 02 Mar 2012 This would allow Breivik to be sentenced to confinement in a psychiatric ward instead of a prison at the end of his trial. "The way the case appears at the time the charges are being brought, there is no basis to request a regular prison penalty," state prosecutor Tor-Aksel Busch wrote in instructions to the prosecutors handling the case. "But it must be clear in the charge sheet that the prosecution reserves the right, during the trial, to request a prison punishment or containment lasting 21 years (the maximum prison sentence for people deemed criminally responsible in Norway), based on the complete evidence shown to the court," he added. Mr Busch said that the way it looks now, Breivik will be tried as someone considered criminally insane, while stressing however that this position could change if new information about the 33-year-old right-wing extremist's mental state emerges. Breivik is currently undergoing a second court-ordered psychiatric evaluation, after the initial one late last year found him criminally insane, sparking objections in some quarters, especially among families of his victims. But regardless of the findings of the second expert assessment of his criminal accountability, he will go on trial starting April 16 and it will in the end be up to the judge to determine whether he can be sentenced to prison. On July 22, the man who has claimed to be on a crusade against multiculturalism and the "Muslim invasion" of Europe set off a car bomb outside government buildings in Oslo, killing eight people. He then went to Utoya island northwest of Oslo, and, dressed as a police officer, spent more than an hour methodically shooting and killing another 69 people, mainly teens, attending a summer camp hosted by the ruling Labour Party's youth wing. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9119241/Anders-Behring-Breivik-prosecutor-says-may-accept-Norway-gunman-not-responsible.html
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Post by Big Lin on Mar 2, 2012 23:59:32 GMT
Well, it's always a close question when you're dealing with an action like what he did.
Breivik, like Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin and a number of other mass murderers, is IMO an evil person.
I think you could probably make a good case that the other names I've mentioned were barking mad as well.
The problem is that people like them have DIFFERENT sets of moral values from most of us.
To Breivik, killing children was morally good.
To Hitler, the same was true of the Jews and gypsies.
To Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, the same was true of non-communists.
It's a tough call.
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Post by trubble on Mar 4, 2012 14:21:17 GMT
I'll be interested to see what the next report says. The first suggested schizophrenia; I don't know enough about it to be saying this but I didn't find that diagnosis very convincing. I have my own theories -- having no psychology expertise doesn't stop me! It's a madness all right, but a delusional type, a coping mechanism based on a heightened fear -phobia- of failure. In his case, imho, it has erupted incredibly violently whereas usually it implodes (suicide, for example); perhaps his violence was partly brought on by steroids that he was taking (I believe Moat's steroids also heightened his violent abilities), and perhaps his choice of victim was partly brought on by his internet/conspiracy activity. The internet is a great place for expressing huge frustration, and therefore distorting the relevance and proximity of various threats; but it offers no power or control, no solution, and it's easy to get into a habit of feeding yourself unbalanced information/news, so the internet user seeking merely to discuss a topic can actually feel more and more disenfranchised the further he researches it. It absolutely does not impinge on the knowledge of right and wrong. He knew what he was doing was wrong but he had a) brainwashed himself into thinking it was a lesser evil and b) dehumanised a majority of the world by seeing them as enemies.
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Post by trubble on Mar 4, 2012 14:27:23 GMT
No, I don't think so. I think he had the same morals as you or me, but he had talked himself into a state of war. And that was the moral change. But he knew.
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Post by sadie1263 on Mar 4, 2012 14:36:19 GMT
What he did will always be thought of as insane to people that are normal. But I don't believe that makes him not responsible. He planned it out.......meticulously.....he knew people would die.....wanted to kill as many as possible.....and that the police would come after him. If you can plan all that......you have enough brain activity to be convicted.
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Post by toby on Mar 4, 2012 16:03:29 GMT
sadie posted.:-What he did will always be thought of as insane to people that are normal
Toby asks.:- What is ,'Normal' though ? Breivik was massively frustrated by seeing his Country swamped with Immigrants, Politicians never listen to what Joe Bloe has to say, so he decided to do something about it. To his credit he did not kill any Immigrants for after all they are innocent ! but he did punish the Left wingers who connived in the Mass immigration by killing their Children who were destined to be the new Socialist Leaders in a couple of decades, thereby cutting off the head of the Viper.
Breivik knew what he was doing all right and he carried out his calculated plan with surprising efficiency.
They don't want him on trial, they cannot face the facts that not everybody is creaming their jeans to build another wonderful multicultural hellhole !
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Post by trubble on Mar 11, 2012 23:54:52 GMT
....tschk. If it wasn't immigration, he probably would have found something else to go crazy about.
The panicked shrieking & low mutterings about immigration, that can be found in dark places all across the internet, are much more to blame than any multi-culturalists.
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Post by iamjumbo on Mar 12, 2012 12:48:42 GMT
sadie posted.:-What he did will always be thought of as insane to people that are normal Toby asks.:- What is ,'Normal' though ? Breivik was massively frustrated by seeing his Country swamped with Immigrants, Politicians never listen to what Joe Bloe has to say, so he decided to do something about it. To his credit he did not kill any Immigrants for after all they are innocent ! but he did punish the Left wingers who connived in the Mass immigration by killing their Children who were destined to be the new Socialist Leaders in a couple of decades, thereby cutting off the head of the Viper. Breivik knew what he was doing all right and he carried out his calculated plan with surprising efficiency. They don't want him on trial, they cannot face the facts that not everybody is creaming their jeans to build another wonderful multicultural hellhole ! you are right on the money there. that was exactly his reasoning. even though he knew it was wrong to murder them, he justified it by fashioning himself to be a savior. NO intelligent person would try to claim that the boy is insane. he knew fully well what he was doing
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Post by iamjumbo on Mar 12, 2012 12:51:15 GMT
....tschk. If it wasn't immigration, he probably would have found something else to go crazy about. The panicked shrieking & low mutterings about immigration, that can be found in dark places all across the internet, are much more to blame than any multi-culturalists. nope. it's the moronic multi-culturalists who have created all of the problems in europe now, and are trying to destroy the u.s. as well. thankfully, the majority of our people aren't stupid enough to accept it to start with. you guys blindly accepted the stupidity, and now that most of you are waking up to reality, it's damm close to being too late to stop the idiocy of multi culturalism
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Post by lakshmi on Mar 12, 2012 13:31:59 GMT
....tschk. If it wasn't immigration, he probably would have found something else to go crazy about. The panicked shrieking & low mutterings about immigration, that can be found in dark places all across the internet, are much more to blame than any multi-culturalists. I agree with it bigot is bigot and hate is hate its not gonna matter its for immigrant or else black person or muslim.
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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2012 15:34:54 GMT
....tschk. If it wasn't immigration, he probably would have found something else to go crazy about. The panicked shrieking & low mutterings about immigration, that can be found in dark places all across the internet, are much more to blame than any multi-culturalists. nope. it's the moronic multi-culturalists who have created all of the problems in europe now, and are trying to destroy the u.s. as well. thankfully, the majority of our people aren't stupid enough to accept it to start with. you guys blindly accepted the stupidity, and now that most of you are waking up to reality, it's damm close to being too late to stop the idiocy of multi culturalism Don't be silly. America invented the stuff.
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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2012 15:37:55 GMT
sadie posted.:-What he did will always be thought of as insane to people that are normal Toby asks.:- What is ,'Normal' though ? Breivik was massively frustrated by seeing his Country swamped with Immigrants, Politicians never listen to what Joe Bloe has to say, so he decided to do something about it. To his credit he did not kill any Immigrants for after all they are innocent ! but he did punish the Left wingers who connived in the Mass immigration by killing their Children who were destined to be the new Socialist Leaders in a couple of decades, thereby cutting off the head of the Viper. Breivik knew what he was doing all right and he carried out his calculated plan with surprising efficiency. They don't want him on trial, they cannot face the facts that not everybody is creaming their jeans to build another wonderful multicultural hellhole ! you are right on the money there. that was exactly his reasoning. even though he knew it was wrong to murder them, he justified it by fashioning himself to be a savior. NO intelligent person would try to claim that the boy is insane. he knew fully well what he was doing He knew but his reasoning was not rational, or justified. His was tipped by hysteria and conspiracy, not by reality.
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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2012 15:39:34 GMT
....tschk. If it wasn't immigration, he probably would have found something else to go crazy about. The panicked shrieking & low mutterings about immigration, that can be found in dark places all across the internet, are much more to blame than any multi-culturalists. I agree with it bigot is bigot and hate is hate its not gonna matter its for immigrant or else black person or muslim. So true. His attitude to women was just as bigoted. If not immigration, he could just have easily killed in the name of Fathers4Justice or some anti-feminist group.
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Post by iamjumbo on Mar 12, 2012 15:47:37 GMT
you are right on the money there. that was exactly his reasoning. even though he knew it was wrong to murder them, he justified it by fashioning himself to be a savior. NO intelligent person would try to claim that the boy is insane. he knew fully well what he was doing He knew but his reasoning was not rational, or justified. His was tipped by hysteria and conspiracy, not by reality. mcnaughten does not recognize that as insanity
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Post by iamjumbo on Mar 12, 2012 15:50:18 GMT
nope. it's the moronic multi-culturalists who have created all of the problems in europe now, and are trying to destroy the u.s. as well. thankfully, the majority of our people aren't stupid enough to accept it to start with. you guys blindly accepted the stupidity, and now that most of you are waking up to reality, it's damm close to being too late to stop the idiocy of multi culturalism Don't be silly. America invented the stuff. no, america didn't. the immigrants who came here, until the past twenty years anyway, came and became americans. they assimilated into american culture. while they did keep some of their traditions, any that were at odds with the american way were jettisoned. that is NOT how europe has done. europe has allowed the aliens to come in and continue living as they did in the country that they left. THAT is what is inexcusable
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Post by lakshmi on Mar 12, 2012 16:41:33 GMT
nope. it's the moronic multi-culturalists who have created all of the problems in europe now, and are trying to destroy the u.s. as well. thankfully, the majority of our people aren't stupid enough to accept it to start with. you guys blindly accepted the stupidity, and now that most of you are waking up to reality, it's damm close to being too late to stop the idiocy of multi culturalism Don't be silly. America invented the stuff. If america didn't had immigrants he will write posts in europe.
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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2012 21:12:14 GMT
He knew but his reasoning was not rational, or justified. His was tipped by hysteria and conspiracy, not by reality. mcnaughten does not recognize that as insanity And I'd agree. It was insanity in a colloquial sense of the word, but criminally insane, or too insane to stand trial? Not in my book. It was pre-meditated mass murder. Although... I do think he is probably messed up enough to warrant psychiatric wing style incarceration - of some description. I just don't know enough about how that works. I wouldn't like to think of him getting an easy ride. Can he be kept in prison but have access to mental health care? I presume that's possible and that it doesn't have to be one or the other. Of course, either way, I am also making the mistake of presuming he'd be locked away for life. Norway has a 21 year maximum sentence which seems far too lenient to me, but it also has other ways of keeping someone locked away if it wants to. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnfinn_Nesset - preventative detention Nesset was judged to be sane; he was given the max sentence for the murder of 22 people, and 10 years preventative detention on top of that. He was released before he finished his sentence. I wonder if he had been considered ''insane'', would he have been kept incarcerated? ?
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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2012 21:18:45 GMT
Ok, this seems to say that in principle someone could be locked away for the whole of their life: from: themoderatevoice.com/117427/meme-correction-norwegians-can-be-incarcerated-for-more-than-21-years-for-murder/Preventive detention is … for an unspecified period… When the time limit [21 years maximum] expires, the offender [is] reassessed. If the court concludes that the recurrence risk is still present, the time frame [can] be extended by up to five years. There is no upper limit to how many times the court may extend the time frame. In principle, therefore, a person sentenced [to] custody [is] in prison for life.
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Post by sadie1263 on Mar 12, 2012 21:24:38 GMT
....tschk. If it wasn't immigration, he probably would have found something else to go crazy about. The panicked shrieking & low mutterings about immigration, that can be found in dark places all across the internet, are much more to blame than any multi-culturalists. I think you are right......if it wasn't this....he would have found something else.......something they can dwell on and build on it to hysteria..........
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Post by Big Lin on Mar 12, 2012 21:27:53 GMT
Not sure about Norway but in Britain he definitely COULD be locked up in a secure mental unit for the rest of his life.
Peter Sutcliffe, Beverley Allitt and Ian Brady are, for instance
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