♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 30, 2011 14:19:16 GMT
I can read Swedish and stammer out enough Swedish to sound like a foreigner, who'd been living in Sweden for 10 years-according to one Swede-Swedish sarcasm obviously! ;D "Hen" doesn't sound as terrible in Swedish as an English unisex 3rd person word outside of it, but it's still wierd. I'm sure the PC popes would love to come up with a unisex 3rd person word to use in English.
So gender identity is sometime detrimental to society according to the avant guard of the PC brigade!?? unfortuntely, the amoral and abjectly stupid seem to be rampant, particularly in that part of the world. it is astounding how trash such as these imbeciles lie awake at night, intent on conjuring up their next bit of idiocy If left alone the majority of girls will go for girl stuff, hop scotch, dolls, etc.. and the majority of guys will go for guy stuff, technical stuff, physical competitions, etc.. It's disgusting that some PC popes thinks that should be stopped!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 30, 2011 14:20:05 GMT
Oh bugrit, I must have modified Anna's post instead of quoting from it. I did that to June once,. I have no idea how to get it back now! Sorry Anna That happens. I reposted it.
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Post by toby on Jun 30, 2011 16:31:58 GMT
iamjumbo posted.:-unfortuntely, the amoral and abjectly stupid seem to be rampant, particularly in that part of the world. it is astounding how trash such as these imbeciles lie awake at night, intent on conjuring up their next bit of idiocy
Toby comments.;- i used to go to Sweden a lot for my work, it's a lovely country, lovely people too and very tolerant. So tolerant that they let a very small minority of politically motivated goons tell them what to do. Instead of giving these Leftoids thesmack in the mouth they richly deserve, the average Swede prefers to do and say nothing for fear of being called a racist, fascist, nazi.
Sound familiar ?
The height of Swedish liberated bra-burning wimmins liberators was when a special urinal was developed to let wimmin who wanted to, pee standing up so they no longer felt ,'inferior', to Men !
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Post by trubble on Jun 30, 2011 18:49:15 GMT
Lies, of course.
But nothing new there.
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Post by june on Jun 30, 2011 20:23:55 GMT
What the feminists have always tried to do is look at what might be appropriate for the individual in any particular case, and encourage everyone to free themselves from traditional stereotypes.
Quite so Jean, well said.
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Post by trubble on Jun 30, 2011 20:26:51 GMT
Hear hear.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 21:11:35 GMT
Oh bugrit, I must have modified Anna's post instead of quoting from it. I did that to June once,. I have no idea how to get it back now! Sorry Anna That happens. I reposted it. I'm not safe to be let loose with a "moderate" button, Anna, I'm really not!
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Post by Liberator on Jun 30, 2011 21:14:01 GMT
Your post is rather lengthy as usual and so i'll just answer a portion. I'm a little "Miss Technophobe" myself and appreciate the guys helping me out with computer matters, auto mechanics, etc.. There are always exceptions to the rule, but i don't ever remember getting computer or mechanical advice from a woman.
The general rule "Let Boys be Boys and Girls be Girls!" is the greatest good for the greatest number. It's simply majority rule and not tyranny or oppression! Let is the operative word, and we can't let by denying options to one side or the other. So I am all in favour of allowing children of both sexes to have the run of everything. For the most part, girls do already because we assume that boy things are preferable to girl things, so girls should do them too, while by the same assumption, boys need not bother so much with girl things. This is socially understandable since traditional man things support consumerist values while woman things to a large extent undermine them. Naturally, established powers encouraged those aspects of feminism that brought women under their control and discouraged those that took men out of it. So instead of something like both sexes working a 20-hour week and men flaunting themselves with pre-industrial (and 1960s) peacock pride like women, we have both working the same as men always did and dressing more practically, as working men always had to.
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Post by jean on Jun 30, 2011 21:38:53 GMT
The height of Swedish liberated bra-burning wimmins liberators was when a special urinal was developed to let wimmin who wanted to, pee standing up so they no longer felt ,'inferior', to Men ! Nonsense! They've been around for ages - and the Swedes certainly didn't invent them:
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Post by Liberator on Jul 1, 2011 1:46:19 GMT
That looks remarkably like a traditional French bomber command hole in the ground toilet for both sexes until in the 1980s they started to segregate the sexes in towns and provide sit-down WCs (as they named them) for women and left those for men. I had a nasty experience having to take my pants down with one of those in Paris, and my wife did a few years earlier in Brittany when the flush chased her out the door into the yard! In general though the French rule appeared to be that if it's liquid, for women it's a toilet and for men anything that won't run away ;D Vive La France Apparantly, in some parts of Germany it is considered grossly sexist for men to stand to pee. This ignores the practical difficulty that in boys especially, if they sit to pee, they are most likely to do it over or under the seat.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 1, 2011 3:42:04 GMT
That happens. I reposted it. I'm not safe to be let loose with a "moderate" button, Anna, I'm really not! It's really no problem SkyLark! I once accidentally deleted an entire post when i got the buttons mixed up!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 1, 2011 5:04:03 GMT
The general rule "Let Boys be Boys and Girls be Girls!" is the greatest good for the greatest number. You're assuming there, every bit as much as Liberator does, that we know without any further qualification or definition exactly what 'boy' or 'girl' behaviour is. You assume that it's a given and boys and girls will, if left to their own devices, adopt the behavious that's traditionally been deemed appropriate for their sex. Liberator seens to think that without the baleful influence of the feminists, we would all ideally tend towards the behaviours traditionally deemed feminineBut we're never wholly free of the social constructs of masculinity and femininity. And the attempts to avoid them that we see in the OP don't go that much further than what happens in your average nursery school here anyway, as skylark has pointed out. What the feminists have always tried to do is look at what might be appropriate for the individual in any particular case, and encourage everyone to free themselves from traditional stereotypes. Dearest Jean, In the US grade school I attended in recess the boys played baseball and US football and the girls played softball, volleyball and sometimes hop scotch. In high school the same sports ( except hopscotch ) were played, but it was expected to go the locker room and dress up in the High School Physical Education gym suits and shower afterwards. Whoever didn't want to join in the sports could hang out anywhere or do their own thing. Just be in class when recess was over.
Why eliminate uniqueness and individuality in favor of "sameness", like this Swedish school does? Stereotyping? That just means someone has an opinion about me or others! I'm fine with that! Better than some 'follow the system yesperson' or a PC pope.
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Post by Liberator on Jul 1, 2011 5:16:03 GMT
I think you're seeing it the wrong way round Anna. It's not restricting to sameness, it's giving everybody a fair crack at everything to grow up making their own choices from a full palette, not just from yellows to red for these, lime to blues for those or yellows to reds for everybody because they are better than inferior lime to blues for nobody.
So you can end up with orange and violet instead of each being excluded from the range of options.
Actually, I experienced this in school. British schools still require specialization to arts or science in the higher levels. I wanted to do German, Latin and Mathematics. Not allowed - Maths were Science, Languages were Arts. Since then, thanks largely to Noam Chomsky, Mathematics with Linguistics is a degree course in its own right, and I had to do Chomsky's mathematical linguistics as part of a computer science degree.
But then, you were a boy or a girl - that is, same sort of artificial distinction as Science or Humanities. I went for German, French, English and Latin, but I would much have preferred Maths to English or French, just as growing up, I found no difference between knitting, embroidery, fishing and Meccano construction, model railway and a pet doll. And once I had passed my Advanced level languages, I used them to take a degree in 'Computing Science' with more mathematics than I ever wanted to see (none of it useful in a computing context).
I was never taught to feel any difference or discouraged, so still do not understand why people make such a fuss about these differences. In any case, knitting was a national tradition that once had a law passed against it to get people out on the fields and a lot of my ancestors had been windjammer sailors for whom knitting and sewing and cooking were essential since there was no woman at sea to play nursemaid and do it all for them like they were helpless children.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 1, 2011 5:22:34 GMT
Your post is rather lengthy as usual and so i'll just answer a portion. I'm a little "Miss Technophobe" myself and appreciate the guys helping me out with computer matters, auto mechanics, etc.. There are always exceptions to the rule, but i don't ever remember getting computer or mechanical advice from a woman.
The general rule "Let Boys be Boys and Girls be Girls!" is the greatest good for the greatest number. It's simply majority rule and not tyranny or oppression! Let is the operative word, and we can't let by denying options to one side or the other. So I am all in favour of allowing children of both sexes to have the run of everything. For the most part, girls do already because we assume that boy things are preferable to girl things, so girls should do them too, while by the same assumption, boys need not bother so much with girl things. This is socially understandable since traditional man things support consumerist values while woman things to a large extent undermine them. Boy things are preferable? I saw the Clint Eastwood film "Million Dollar Baby" about the girl boxer! I don't understand why a girl would want to be a boxer. That's a "guy thing" in my eyes! FIDE football/soccer with those head butts called headers is a guy thing too.
Equal pay for equal work is an aspect of "feminism" that I support.
I do like to play chess and the guys outnumber the girls there probably 50 to 1, but as Judit Polgar showed women can be very successful there!
I really don't get your reasoning that it's assumed that boy's things are better then girl things.
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Post by jean on Jul 1, 2011 6:52:34 GMT
Dearest Jean, In the US grade school I attended in recess the boys played baseball and US football and the girls played softball, volleyball and sometimes hop scotch.
...Why eliminate uniqueness and individuality in favor of "sameness"? Because what you've described isn't uniqueness and individuality, it's the sameness of rigid and immutable gender roles. Fine if it suits you - hell if it doesn't.
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Post by jean on Jul 1, 2011 7:13:38 GMT
I think you're seeing it the wrong way round Anna. It's not restricting to sameness, it's giving everybody a fair crack at everything to grow up making their own choices from a full palette, not just from yellows to red for these, lime to blues for those or yellows to reds for everybody because they are better than inferior lime to blues for nobody. So you can end up with orange and violet instead of each being excluded from the range of options. Actually, I experienced this in school. British schools still require specialization to arts or science in the higher levels. I wanted to do German, Latin and Mathematics. Not allowed - Maths were Science, Languages were Arts. Since then, thanks largely to Noam Chomsky, Mathematics with Linguistics is a degree course in its own right, and I had to do Chomsky's mathematical linguistics as part of a computer science degree. But then, you were a boy or a girl - that is, same sort of artificial distinction as Science or Humanities. I went for German, French, English and Latin, but I would much have preferred Maths to English or French, just as growing up, I found no difference between knitting, embroidery, fishing and Meccano construction, model railway and a pet doll. And once I had passed my Advanced level languages, I used them to take a degree in 'Computing Science' with more mathematics than I ever wanted to see (none of it useful in a computing context). I was never taught to feel any difference or discouraged, so still do not understand why people make such a fuss about these differences. In any case, knitting was a national tradition that once had a law passed against it to get people out on the fields and a lot of my ancestors had been windjammer sailors for whom knitting and sewing and cooking were essential since there was no woman at sea to play nursemaid and do it all for them like they were helpless children. A very sensible post, Liberator, and do you know why? It's because you managed to leave the feminists out of it. But it is no longer the case that It is true that in the 1950s, girls' schools pushed their pupils into sciences, in an attempt to break out of earlier stereotyping; but even then, it was possible to mix Arts and Sciences at A level, though it was safer if you were doing four subjects rather than three. When I was teaching, such a combination was not unusual; My niece's A levels were Art, Chemistry and Biology. And some medical schools in particular liked evidence of a wider range of interests than just three sciences could show. (It's always seemed to me that woodwork or needlework might be a better preparation for being a surgeon than A level physics.)
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 1, 2011 13:09:24 GMT
I think you're seeing it the wrong way round Anna. It's not restricting to sameness, it's giving everybody a fair crack at everything to grow up making their own choices from a full palette, not just from yellows to red for these, lime to blues for those or yellows to reds for everybody because they are better than inferior lime to blues for nobody. So you can end up with orange and violet instead of each being excluded from the range of options. Actually, I experienced this in school. British schools still require specialization to arts or science in the higher levels. I wanted to do German, Latin and Mathematics. Not allowed - Maths were Science, Languages were Arts. Since then, thanks largely to Noam Chomsky, Mathematics with Linguistics is a degree course in its own right, and I had to do Chomsky's mathematical linguistics as part of a computer science degree. But then, you were a boy or a girl - that is, same sort of artificial distinction as Science or Humanities. I went for German, French, English and Latin, but I would much have preferred Maths to English or French, just as growing up, I found no difference between knitting, embroidery, fishing and Meccano construction, model railway and a pet doll. And once I had passed my Advanced level languages, I used them to take a degree in 'Computing Science' with more mathematics than I ever wanted to see (none of it useful in a computing context). I was never taught to feel any difference or discouraged, so still do not understand why people make such a fuss about these differences. In any case, knitting was a national tradition that once had a law passed against it to get people out on the fields and a lot of my ancestors had been windjammer sailors for whom knitting and sewing and cooking were essential since there was no woman at sea to play nursemaid and do it all for them like they were helpless children. you were a boy or a girl - that is, same sort of artificial distinction as Science or Humanities. there is where you lose. the distinction between a girl or boy is NOT artificial, as is the distinction between science and humanities. it is an absolute physical difference, which no normal person would ever try to change. what you are talking about has become prevalent over the past few decades. when i was in school, boys didn't take home economics, and girls didn't take shop. a decade after i left school, it was quite common to have both of those courses with mixed gender students.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 1, 2011 13:13:46 GMT
The general rule "Let Boys be Boys and Girls be Girls!" is the greatest good for the greatest number. You're assuming there, every bit as much as Liberator does, that we know without any further qualification or definition exactly what 'boy' or 'girl' behaviour is. You assume that it's a given and boys and girls will, if left to their own devices, adopt the behavious that's traditionally been deemed appropriate for their sex. Liberator seens to think that without the baleful influence of the feminists, we would all ideally tend towards the behaviours traditionally deemed feminineBut we're never wholly free of the social constructs of masculinity and femininity. And the attempts to avoid them that we see in the OP don't go that much further than what happens in your average nursery school here anyway, as skylark has pointed out. What the feminists have always tried to do is look at what might be appropriate for the individual in any particular case, and encourage everyone to free themselves from traditional stereotypes. nope. being intelligent enough to comprehend the irrefutable FACT that boys and girls ARE different, is NOT stereotyping in any fathomable way. it is simple reality, that cannot, nor will not, ever change
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 1, 2011 13:26:47 GMT
iamjumbo posted.:-unfortuntely, the amoral and abjectly stupid seem to be rampant, particularly in that part of the world. it is astounding how trash such as these imbeciles lie awake at night, intent on conjuring up their next bit of idiocy Toby comments.;- i used to go to Sweden a lot for my work, it's a lovely country, lovely people too and very tolerant. So tolerant that they let a very small minority of politically motivated goons tell them what to do. Instead of giving these Leftoids thesmack in the mouth they richly deserve, the average Swede prefers to do and say nothing for fear of being called a racist, fascist, nazi. Sound familiar ? The height of Swedish liberated bra-burning wimmins liberators was when a special urinal was developed to let wimmin who wanted to, pee standing up so they no longer felt ,'inferior', to Men ! unfortunately, the fact is that the majority of people choose to only be sheep, and follow any lunatic who hallucinates such idiocy. you're totally correct of course, they also follow behind the nutjob racists and fascists who are so intolerant that they label all those who are intelligent enough to have things right as racists and fascists
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Post by jean on Jul 1, 2011 15:57:11 GMT
...the distinction between a girl or boy is NOT artificial...,it is an absolute physical difference... Nobopdy's arguing about the physical difference - but all sorts of things have 'traditionally' been thought to follow from that, which don't at all. I'm not sure whether you think this is a good thing or not. (I might have a better idea if I knew what shop was.)
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