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Post by firedancer on Oct 14, 2010 19:57:07 GMT
fair playwhat is fairness?Leading up to 20 October and the spending review the BBC is looking at fairness. What do we mean by fairness? Is it equality? Is it sharing the burden? Is it looking after the most vulnerable before all others? Is it hitting on the rich because they have the most? etc etc. Below is from the second link according to philosopher Dr Angie Hobbs: However, such a view of fairness does not entail that each person should receive an exactly equal portion of whatever is being distributed, or receive precisely equal treatment.
It can be interpreted in this way, but most philosophers would argue for some form of proportionality of treatment - whether in respect of need, or merit, or a mixture of both. For me, the most attractive interpretation is that each person is of equal worth and should have the opportunity - ideally, an equal opportunity - to access goods, but most of the goods themselves will be proportionally distributed, according to need in some cases and merit in others. I think the last paragraph comes nearest to what I believe although I would add "services" to goods. What does everyone think?
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Post by sadie1263 on Oct 14, 2010 21:23:09 GMT
Well.....they will never be able to solve that question.
That's about the same as asking to decide on a favorite color or favorite food..........everyone is always going to want it skewed in their favor....or special allowances..........
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Post by Big Lin on Oct 15, 2010 14:02:02 GMT
Fairness - my goodness, people have been arguing about what THAT is for thousands of years.
I'll put my thinking cap on and get back to you on that one!
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Post by Ben Lomond on Oct 15, 2010 14:37:20 GMT
Not easy, but to me the best definition is fairness of opportunity. There is, of course, the cynical definition of socialist fairness, which goes.....the socialist would gather all the wealth of the nation in, and then share it all out equally. Then when they have spent their share, they would gather all the wealth of the nation in, and share it out (again) equally. Then when they have spent their share........."
Fairness is not equality, apart from equality in opportunity. And even here, there can never be true equality of opportunity, for where you are born, and to whom, plays a large and ungovernable part in the lottery that is life. But if no-one is excluded from any profession, or calling simply on account of his background or parentage, and reward depends largely on ability, then I would go along with that. But even then, if everyone has the same access to opportunity, then some (probably a minority), will prosper, the majority will remain ambivalent, and many will simply sit on their arses and expect others to care for them. And that has NOTHING to do with fairness.
It probably requires the wisdom of Solomon to come up with a definition that all would agree with, but for me, the linking of fairness to opportunity goes some way towards that goal.
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Post by riotgrrl on Oct 15, 2010 19:37:01 GMT
'Fairness' has to be something about everyone knows the rules and the rules are applied without fear or favour to all in the same way.
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Post by sadie1263 on Oct 16, 2010 2:31:43 GMT
But even trying to throw in basing anything on need or disability.....who is more disabled.....someone in a wheelchair.....or someone that is blind....someone with a learning disability or someone with a debilitating illness? You will have people arguing theirs is worse from now on.........
Then do you factor in people that are out of work......are people without kids less deserving? What about that idiot woman they call Octomom......that choose to have 8 more children, when she already had six, and has no job.....should people like her be rewarded for that?
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Post by Ben Lomond on Oct 16, 2010 12:51:10 GMT
'Fairness' has to be something about everyone knows the rules and the rules are applied without fear or favour to all in the same way. But that in turn begs the question; who makes the rules, and are they always fair to all? Which in turn begs the question, what is a fair rule? Rules by their nature enforce a code of conduct, and someone, somewhere, will feel that such enforced conduct is unfair to him. Which really illustrates the fact the the question (define fairness) is almost impossible!
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Post by riotgrrl on Oct 16, 2010 13:53:17 GMT
'Fairness' has to be something about everyone knows the rules and the rules are applied without fear or favour to all in the same way. But that in turn begs the question; who makes the rules, and are they always fair to all? Which in turn begs the question, what is a fair rule? Rules by their nature enforce a code of conduct, and someone, somewhere, will feel that such enforced conduct is unfair to him. Which really illustrates the fact the the question (define fairness) is almost impossible! Mmmmm. You may have a point here.
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Post by iamjumbo on Oct 16, 2010 17:49:36 GMT
there can never be true fairness, according to the definition that most people would accept, that being total equality. ben is close in that fairness would be equal opportunity for all, but that cannot be achieved in this life. also, we must not forget about those who sit on their dead azzes because mom and dad either legitimately or not, gained an advantage over others, and they receive everything without working for it
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Post by Synonym on Oct 21, 2010 17:17:09 GMT
I think that fairness perhaps means an equality of unearned (by the recipient individual) benefit/advantage. Though that of course means that any advantage one was born with, say strength or IQ or athletic ability, or any talent, gives them an unfair advantage over those born without them; just as it is unfair that we were born into a society which makes it hard for us to be as left without nothing as is the norm for millions in other countries.
So in practise I think we can only worry about the fairness we can directly influence, such as equalising opportunities as much as possible. We cannot eradicate it, as others have said. We probably can't even eradicate unfairness in the areas where we can do something about it.
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Post by beez0811 on Oct 22, 2010 4:39:38 GMT
Life isn't fair.
"The fair in Dallas, in the Fall. Buy a ticket; stay all day!"
--my 7th Grade English Teacher
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2010 6:36:19 GMT
Life isn't fair, and the sooner children learn that hard rule the better!
That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to BE fair. But if an injustice is doled out to a youngster - perhaps a punishment for something they hadn't done, or had been a minor player when the ringleader escaped - well, the biggest lesson is to learn how to handle it. As a teacher once said to our class, if that happens to you (and she conceded it could) just think of the times you got away with something worse!
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