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Post by mouse on May 7, 2010 11:36:22 GMT
and i would vote for the devil over brown....oh what a to do but yes another election maybe months..or a year or even 15 mths away..but lets hope voters such as the troops along with residential area voters will not be disenfranchiesed in future...and that postal voting is heavily curtailed and only those out of the country or sick will in future be allowed postal votes the reasons from widening the scope of postal voting was all wrong and the abuse is growing..so time to go back to the old way and of course cameron does have the mandate..ie the most mp,s electd and the greater number of votes...how labour can say other wise will remain one of lifes mysteries...
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Post by mouse on May 7, 2010 11:38:16 GMT
Post devolution we now have a nasty dilemma.... A major part of Labour's support is in Scotland and most Tory support is in England. Delicious. at least we have been spared the sight of the welsh and scots demands for special treatment ...which would have added a whole lot of anger[see other thread]
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 11:40:37 GMT
Hey Fretty! Was that you in the front row 'shouting 'Yes we Khan'!!!!!
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Post by fretslider on May 7, 2010 11:41:13 GMT
Hey Fretty! Was that you in the front row 'shouting 'Yes we Khan'!!!!! Arse.
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 11:43:27 GMT
David Owen on the telly just now pointing out that Cameron actually does have the strongest mandate; a reasonable point. He has no mandate though! He wasn't elected as PM and can only really become PM if Clegg, beaten into a poor third place. He actually lost seats. If this dogs dinner doesn't end first past the post, then nothing will.
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 11:44:37 GMT
and of course cameron does have the mandate..ie the most mp,s electd and the greater number of votes...how labour can say other wise will remain one of lifes mysteries... That is the constitution.
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Post by fretslider on May 7, 2010 11:45:45 GMT
Post devolution we now have a nasty dilemma.... A major part of Labour's support is in Scotland and most Tory support is in England. Delicious. at least we have been spared the sight of the welsh and scots demands for special treatment ...which would have added a whole lot of anger[see other thread] Salmond will kick up a real fuss about any unpopular legislation coming from a Tory government - no support in Scotland, you see....
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 12:13:12 GMT
I take that as a 'no' then? So how did your spoiled ballot paper go, then? The House of Commons still stand then?
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 12:16:27 GMT
Salmond will kick up a real fuss about any unpopular legislation coming from a Tory government - no support in Scotland, you see.... To be fair to Eck, he was on telly saying that they had not made any inroads into Labour's seats, not even where I live, so my vote counted as much as yours
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Post by fretslider on May 7, 2010 12:25:25 GMT
I take that as a 'no' then? So how did your spoiled ballot paper go, then? The House of Commons still stand then? No, take it as an insult to match the one you pointed my way. I voted wisely - English Democrat. The house of cards as I predicted will continue with business as usual. Forget reform, it ain't gonna happen without a popular revolt.
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 12:58:02 GMT
No, take it as an insult to match the one you pointed my way. Not meant as an insult, just a nild wind up, no real harm intended. I am genuinely sorry you took it as an insult. I voted wisely - English Democrat. Iwas under the impression that you were going to spoli your paper. I stand corrected.
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Post by fretslider on May 7, 2010 13:20:33 GMT
No, take it as an insult to match the one you pointed my way. Not meant as an insult, just a nild wind up, no real harm intended. I am genuinely sorry you took it as an insult. I voted wisely - English Democrat. Iwas under the impression that you were going to spoli your paper. I stand corrected. I knew there was no chance of unseating the odious careerist Khan. My apologies for misunderstanding the jape, RV. Had there not been an ED candidate I would have spoiled the paper. Why vote for that which you do not want?
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 13:30:33 GMT
I knew there was no chance of unseating the odious careerist Khan. My apologies for misunderstanding the jape, RV. I concede that we have a bit of history (which is a real shame BTW) so I suppose you could be forgiven for that. I found it asumsing that these people could get so hyped up about the worse result the Labour Party have had in 28 years. Ho hum! ..The team 'Tether sweatshirts' were a bit much too.,
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Post by fretslider on May 7, 2010 13:40:27 GMT
I knew there was no chance of unseating the odious careerist Khan. My apologies for misunderstanding the jape, RV. I concede that we have a bit of history (which is a real shame BTW) so I suppose you could be forgiven for that. I found it asumsing that these people could get so hyped up about the worse result the Labour Party have had in 28 years. Ho hum! ..The team 'Tether sweatshirts' were a bit much too., Well history is generally in the past........ did I just say that?! I wonder if people realise that its the worst result possible as far as democracy in this country is concerned. The Tories are vehemently anti-reform and the other two see it as a saving device. Its always about them. Our wonderful system isn't even clear on how to proceed, so its all made up as they go along - again. I can see another election on the distant horizon.
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Post by Ben Lomond on May 7, 2010 14:20:25 GMT
I have argued before that while "first past the post" has major faults, it also has a major strength in that it allows for firm government, without backroom deals and compromises and lasting insecurity of government. And we are about to find out just why a hung parliament is NOT such a good idea, and hung parliaments is what PR would guarantee for ever more. As for the present imbroglio, it is obvious that as the leader of the party with the most seats, Cameron should... (nay..must) have first shot at forming a government. It cannot be otherwise.
I have just been listening to Cameron making his position clear, and at the same time offering an olive branch to the Liberals, who must be sorely disappointed that Cleggmania did not produce a single extra seat. Clegg is too astute to turn Cameron down out of hand. There will be some bargaining, and perhaps a cabinet seat for one or two Liberals, with a promise of a referendum on PR. But that is all Cameron will concede.
As for talk of a Lib/Lab pact, that HAS to be a non starter. Labour has been decimated at the polls, and even with Liberal backing, they still cannot muster an absolute majority. Brown might hang on for a week or so before he is put out to pasture, and then the internal wrangling will start, with Balls, the Millipedes, Johnson, and even the horrible Harriet, all fighting like ferrets in a sack for the poisoned chalice.
So Cameron for PM in a conservative government, with the backing of the Liberals, would seem the sensible option. Either that, or we have a re-run in a year or eighteen months.
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Post by riotgrrl on May 7, 2010 14:45:22 GMT
Post devolution we now have a nasty dilemma.... A major part of Labour's support is in Scotland and most Tory support is in England. Delicious. at least we have been spared the sight of the welsh and scots demands for special treatment ...which would have added a whole lot of anger[see other thread] You can't have been paying attention. Plaid Cymru have come out with a specific, financial demand for Wales as the price for their involvement in any Labour coalition. The SNP have been more coy. We know Brown is sniffing around Alex.
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Post by riotgrrl on May 7, 2010 14:46:49 GMT
at least we have been spared the sight of the welsh and scots demands for special treatment ...which would have added a whole lot of anger[see other thread] Salmond will kick up a real fuss about any unpopular legislation coming from a Tory government - no support in Scotland, you see.... This will be very, very good for the SNP in the long-term (a Tory Govt.)
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Post by randomvioce on May 7, 2010 15:08:52 GMT
To be absolutely blunt, the main three political Parties agree on so much that we are in a permanently hung Parliament anyway. That much was clear from the TV debates. On about 80% of the issues, the Parties are tied to various policies by pure pragmatics. Even the hot potato, immigration is driven by reality and not ideology. The three leaders tried to contort themselves into a position widely different from the other two, even when they have the exact same tools. They all (when you analyse it) say the exact same thing, which is we cannot and will not stop immigration. The ‘best’ they can do is re-order where immigrants come from. Even this is limited.
So a hung Parliament is not a disaster, far from it. It will allow the PM (whoever) to wriggle out his worse pre election promises.
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Post by mouse on May 7, 2010 15:18:09 GMT
at least we have been spared the sight of the welsh and scots demands for special treatment ...which would have added a whole lot of anger[see other thread] You can't have been paying attention. Plaid Cymru have come out with a specific, financial demand for Wales as the price for their involvement in any Labour coalition. The SNP have been more coy. We know Brown is sniffing around Alex. the finacial demands were under discussion a few days ago..as posted in another thread......however if a deal is cut with lib/dems..it will not be necessary to deal with either.... brown would sniff round a dead rat for an advantage
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Post by riotgrrl on May 7, 2010 15:28:10 GMT
You can't have been paying attention. Plaid Cymru have come out with a specific, financial demand for Wales as the price for their involvement in any Labour coalition. The SNP have been more coy. We know Brown is sniffing around Alex. the finacial demands were under discussion a few days ago..as posted in another thread......however if a deal is cut with lib/dems..it will not be necessary to deal with either.... brown would sniff round a dead rat for an advantage Labour/Lib together is still not enough for a government. They'd need to start to bring in the nationalist parties. Only Tory/Lib can form a government without a multi-faceted and impossibly unstable coalition. That wooshing sound you hear is the sound of the Lib Dums ditching every principle they ever pretended to stand for. Opportunistic to the core.
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