|
Post by mouse on Apr 24, 2010 13:54:33 GMT
for those who say islamic problems are all new and because of palestine..suadi nutters..irak etc etc..sort of proves the lie dont it
Liberal Prime Minister, William Ewart Gladstone, once brandished a copy of the Koran in the House of Commons and declared that ''as long as this accursed book exists, there will be no peace in the world''.
Hard to imagine any of today's expenses-claiming politicos having the the nerve to say that today
|
|
|
Post by alanseago on May 13, 2010 15:39:02 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Big Lin on May 13, 2010 17:48:34 GMT
Gladstone was one of the WORST Prime Ministers Britain ever had. He was a hypocrite, an enemy of the working classes and a vicious reactionary of the worst kind.
His attitude towards Islam was based purely and simply upon religious prejudice and NOT upon any actual EVIDENCE of much beyond the recent atrocities in Bulgaria.
For the sake of his bigotry he was willing to sacrifice vital British national interests.
What a clown!
|
|
|
Post by mouse on May 14, 2010 9:34:23 GMT
or churchils """civilisation is confronted with militant Mahommedanism. The forces of progress clash with those of reaction. The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually the better armed."""
Churchill wrote: "Indeed it is evident that Christianity, however degraded and distorted by cruelty and intolerance, must always exert a modifying influence on men's passions, and protect them from the more violent forms of fanatical fever, as we are protected from smallpox by vaccination. But the Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. It was originally propagated by the sword, and ever since, its votaries have been subject, above the people of all other creeds, to this form of madness."
|
|
|
Post by mouse on May 14, 2010 9:39:36 GMT
""How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
|
|
|
Post by mouse on May 14, 2010 9:50:21 GMT
it would seem that the saying is true the more things change..the more they are the same
|
|
|
Post by mouse on May 14, 2010 10:25:26 GMT
14th-Century Christian emperor constantine who said Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.
times do not change..
|
|
|
Post by alanseago on May 14, 2010 12:47:12 GMT
Churchill, Constantine, Senator Mc Arthur? I will leave you to your rambling venom.
|
|
|
Post by sesley on May 14, 2010 12:50:53 GMT
Christianity is not so wonderful either. The Spanish inqusition for one,The middle ages Witch hunts, the abuse by church/christian people on vunerable on children ,women and even men. In fact any religion that gets fundamentalist are destructive and cruel there are even Hindu fundamentalists persecuting anyone that does not follow Hindusim in India. In short people who take relgious writings as the way to live and die are a menace to the world .
|
|
|
Post by mouse on May 14, 2010 13:12:00 GMT
i agree selsey..a menace to the world whitch hunting nothing more than fear of women who had knowledge of medicinal herbs and what do men fear most..women with knowledge the spanish inquisition simply the settling of a new power order via one mans delusions re conquistor and quite a bit of payback
there is however one subtle differnce between islam and christianity..... take christianity for eg...now where in the words of christ is abuse etc mentioned in fact it is spoken out against strongly..the clergy is entirely a man made concept[nicea even altered that] islam unfortunately has not had the mildests of reformations..and reformation is long over due the attitudes and norms of a tribal war lord of the 7th century have no place in the 21st century or his and the angel gabrials ramblings gathered together in the koran they were for there time..and their time has long gone
|
|
|
Post by mouse on May 14, 2010 13:19:43 GMT
Churchill, Constantine, Senator Mc Arthur? I will leave you to your rambling venom. mac arthur? rambling venom ;D....if you say so of course... simply a very small collation of opinions on islam and Mohamed which of course you are free to disagree with...there are of course many many more interesting coments..from non Muslims and Muslims and ex Muslims right through the ages i have never understood why its venom to disagree with Islamic/Muslim beliefs and practices...but forward thinking to disagree with christianity.... ..all very confusing would you also disagree with this "Individual Moslem's may show splendid qualities. or this . But the influence of the religion[islam] paralysis the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.""
|
|
|
Post by alanseago on May 14, 2010 15:59:03 GMT
Apologies for the typo. McCarthy.
|
|
|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on May 14, 2010 22:30:57 GMT
I've never been able to discover anything good about Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Scientology, Judaism, or any other religion. That's the one and only thing that Karl Marx ever got right (Religion is the opiate of the masses"). They all do much more harm than good. Islam just happens to be the worst of the lot.
|
|
|
Post by fretslider on May 14, 2010 22:32:28 GMT
I've never been able to discover anything good about Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Scientology, Judaism, or any other religion. That's the one and only thing that Karl Marx ever got right (Religion is the opiate of the masses"). They all do much more harm than good. Islam just happens to be the worst of the lot. Too right, das.
|
|
|
Post by clemiethedog on May 19, 2010 13:16:26 GMT
I've never been able to discover anything good about Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Scientology, Judaism, or any other religion. That's the one and only thing that Karl Marx ever got right (Religion is the opiate of the masses"). They all do much more harm than good. Islam just happens to be the worst of the lot. I'm pretty much in accord with this statement; although individuals have done great things, too, in the name of their religion. The West having a problem with Islam dates back to the first crusade. I also agree with the assessment of Gladstone. He was bad news even for Victorian times. Trivial sidebar: Gladstone's rival got his surname from "The Israeli".
|
|
|
Post by alanseago on May 19, 2010 14:28:58 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mouse on May 19, 2010 16:52:11 GMT
if the byzantine empire is considered western or part western the problems go back before the first crusade however the first crusade was only started because of the expansion and wars of islam...had the islamists not tried for six hundred years to bring down constantinople there wouldnt have been a first crusade
|
|
|
Post by alanseago on May 19, 2010 17:13:12 GMT
Saladin threw Jerusalem open to Jews and Christians. A pope organised the crusades.
|
|
|
Post by mouse on May 19, 2010 18:04:42 GMT
The First Crusade played a very important part in Medieval England.
The First Crusade was an attempt to re-capture Jerusalem. After the capture of Jerusalem by the Muslims in 1076, any Christian who wanted to pay a pilgrimage to the city faced a very hard time.
Muslim soldiers made life very difficult for the Christians and trying to get to Jerusalem was filled with danger for a Christian. This greatly angered all Christians.
One Christian - called Alexius I of Constantinople - feared that his country might also fall to the Muslims as it was very close to the territory captured by the Muslims. Constantinople is in modern day Turkey. Alexius called on the pope - Urban II - to give him help.
|
|
|
Post by mouse on May 19, 2010 18:16:05 GMT
Saladin threw Jerusalem open to Jews and Christians. A pope organised the crusades. hardly an open door when you have to fight to get in... ..saladin was later more crusaders died on the journey than reached the holy land so i read elsewhere.... saladin was born in tikrit just like sadam hussain...saladin was quite a warrior....and quite a man....pity he and richard were on oposite sides really..both considerable fighters A Crusader knight The First Crusade had a very difficult journey getting to the Middle East. They could not use the Mediterranean Sea as the Crusaders did not control the ports on the coast of the Middle East. Therefore, they had to cross land. They travelled from France through Italy, then Eastern Europe and then through what is now Turkey. They covered hundreds of miles, through scorching heat and also deep snow in the mountain passes. The Crusaders ran out of fresh water and according to a survivor of the First Crusade who wrote about his experiences after his return, some were reduced to drinking their own urine, drinking animal blood or water that had been in sewage. Food was bought from local people but at very expensive prices. Odo of Deuil claims that these men who were fighting for God were reduced to pillaging and plunder in order to get food. Disease was common especially as men were weakened by the journey and drinking dirty water. Dysentery was common. Heat stroke also weakened many Crusaders. Disease and fatigue affected rich and poor alike. By 1097, nearly 10,000 people had gathered at Constantinople ready for the journey to the Holy Land. There was no one person in charge of the First Crusade. Urban II had made Bishop Adbenar the leader but he preferred to let others do the work and make decisions. They were four separate proper Crusader armies in the First Crusade but also a large number of smaller armies. However, there was no proper command structure and with the problems of communications at that time, it is possible that a command structure with one person in charge was an impossibility. The first target of the Crusaders was the important fortress city of Nicea. This city was taken by the Crusaders without too much trouble as the man in charge of it was away fighting! The next target for the Crusaders was Antioch - a strongly protected Turkish city. It took a seven month siege before the city fell. The next target was Jerusalem. The attack and capture of Jerusalem started in the summer of 1099. Jerusalem was well defended with high walls around it. The first attacks on the city were not successful as the Crusaders were short of materials for building siege machines. Once logs had arrived, two siege machines were built. A monk called Fulcher was on the First Crusade. He wrote about the attack on the Holy City and he can be treated as an eye-witness as to what took place. Fulcher claimed that once the Crusaders had managed to get over the walls of Jerusalem, the Muslim defenders there ran away. Fulcher claimed that the Crusaders cut down anybody they could and that the streets of Jerusalem were ankle deep in blood. The rest of the Crusaders got into the city when the gates were opened. The slaughter continued and the Crusaders "killed whoever they wished". Those Muslims who had their lives spared, had to go round and collect the bodies before dumping them outside of the city because they stank so much. The Muslims claimed afterwards that 70,000 people were killed and that the Crusaders took whatever treasure they could from the Dome of the Rock.
|
|