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Post by clemiethedog on Apr 9, 2010 16:05:49 GMT
Bush and his administration are a stain on history. Purely shameful. I am glad I never voted for that asshat. www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7092435.ece?reddit(paste) George W. Bush 'knew Guantánamo prisoners were innocent' George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq and the broader War on Terror, according to a new document obtained by The Times. The accusations were made by Lawrence Wilkerson, a top aide to Colin Powell, the former Republican Secretary of State, in a signed declaration to support a lawsuit filed by a Guantánamo detainee. It is the first time that such allegations have been made by a senior member of the Bush Administration. Colonel Wilkerson, who was General Powell’s chief of staff when he ran the State Department, was most critical of Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld. He claimed that the former Vice-President and Defence Secretary knew that the majority of the initial 742 detainees sent to Guantánamo in 2002 were innocent but believed that it was “politically impossible to release them”. General Powell, who left the Bush Administration in 2005, angry about the misinformation that he unwittingly gave the world when he made the case for the invasion of Iraq at the UN, is understood to have backed Colonel Wilkerson’s declaration. Colonel Wilkerson, a long-time critic of the Bush Administration’s approach to counter-terrorism and the war in Iraq, claimed that the majority of detainees — children as young as 12 and men as old as 93, he said — never saw a US soldier when they were captured. He said that many were turned over by Afghans and Pakistanis for up to $5,000. Little or no evidence was produced as to why they had been taken. He also claimed that one reason Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld did not want the innocent detainees released was because “the detention efforts would be revealed as the incredibly confused operation that they were”. This was “not acceptable to the Administration and would have been severely detrimental to the leadership at DoD [Mr Rumsfeld at the Defence Department]”. Referring to Mr Cheney, Colonel Wilkerson, who served 31 years in the US Army, asserted: “He had absolutely no concern that the vast majority of Guantánamo detainees were innocent ... If hundreds of innocent individuals had to suffer in order to detain a handful of hardcore terrorists, so be it.” He alleged that for Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld “innocent people languishing in Guantánamo for years was justified by the broader War on Terror and the small number of terrorists who were responsible for the September 11 attacks”. He added: “I discussed the issue of the Guantánamo detainees with Secretary Powell. I learnt that it was his view that it was not just Vice-President Cheney and Secretary Rumsfeld, but also President Bush who was involved in all of the Guantánamo decision making.” Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld, Colonel Wilkerson said, deemed the incarceration of innocent men acceptable if some genuine militants were captured, leading to a better intelligence picture of Iraq at a time when the Bush Administration was desperate to find a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11, “thus justifying the Administration’s plans for war with that country”. He signed the declaration in support of Adel Hassan Hamad, a Sudanese man who was held at Guantánamo Bay from March 2003 until December 2007. Mr Hamad claims that he was tortured by US agents while in custody and yesterday filed a damages action against a list of American officials. Defenders of Guantánamo said that detainees began to be released as early as September 2002, nine months after the first prisoners were sent to the jail at the US naval base in Cuba. By the time Mr Bush left office more than 530 detainees had been freed. A spokesman for Mr Bush said of Colonel Wilkerson’s allegations: “We are not going to have any comment on that.” A former associate to Mr Rumsfeld said that Mr Wilkerson's assertions were completely untrue. The associate said the former Defence Secretary had worked harder than anyone to get detainees released and worked assiduously to keep the prison population as small as possible. Mr Cheney’s office did not respond. There are currently about 180 detainees left in the facility.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Apr 9, 2010 22:06:58 GMT
"If hundreds of innocent individuals had to suffer in order to detain a handful of hardcore terrorists, so be it.”
Way to go Dick!
There is nothing in this world that I have less sympathy for than Guantanamo detainee sympathizers.
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Post by mouse on Apr 10, 2010 7:02:23 GMT
i have no sympathy for gitmo inmates..let em rot they get better fed and better medical treatment than they would in their own countries if they choose to fight without uniform or adhering to any sort of law...then what happens to them is an irelevence when i saw the joy of our gov and the weeping in our papers of so called british when released from gitmo i lost any compassion i may have had..[and i didnt have a lot to start with] they went to afghani to kill british soldiers...let them rot
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Post by randomvioce on Apr 10, 2010 10:47:58 GMT
"If hundreds of innocent individuals had to suffer in order to detain a handful of hardcore terrorists, so be it.” Way to go Dick! There is nothing in this world that I have less sympathy for than Guantanamo detainee sympathizers. So if a few innocent Americans die, it will be okay because human beings will live? These are the people we have a 'special relationship with? I wouldn't piss on these sub human vermin if they were on fire.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Apr 13, 2010 0:39:24 GMT
@ Random Voice - Sorry but I don't understand your point. Please clarify.
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Post by jade on Apr 13, 2010 7:32:39 GMT
Mouse and Bushy
what about those who were picked up without any proper reason? those that are actually innocent?
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Post by pumpkinette on Apr 13, 2010 9:55:56 GMT
"If hundreds of innocent individuals had to suffer in order to detain a handful of hardcore terrorists, so be it.” Way to go Dick! There is nothing in this world that I have less sympathy for than Guantanamo detainee sympathizers. What if any of YOUR family/friends were part of the truly innocent 1's? Would you be for this THEN? Just wondering.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Apr 13, 2010 23:30:35 GMT
Put it this way. If you're in a war, and there are enemy combatants shooting at you, you should try to kill them or capture them. If you capture them you're probably not too concerned about gathering rules of evidence or reading them their legal rights.
Now that we have these nut cases in Amnesty International and the US Democratic Party I think our military should decide to just go ahead and shoot them in the future. It's much better in the long run. Then you don't have to deal with the nutbag terrorist sympathisers who want to give them legal rights and put them on trial.
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Post by pumpkinette on Apr 19, 2010 14:37:37 GMT
Put it this way. If you're in a war, and there are enemy combatants shooting at you, you should try to kill them or capture them. If you capture them you're probably not too concerned about gathering rules of evidence or reading them their legal rights. Now that we have these nut cases in Amnesty International and the US Democratic Party I think our military should decide to just go ahead and shoot them in the future. It's much better in the long run. Then you don't have to deal with the nutbag terrorist sympathisers who want to give them legal rights and put them on trial. You're either willfully ignoring my question about YOUR family/friends OR you're saying that it's OK to not give people rights, put them on trial, etc. Do you realize that if the US military tortures, doesn't give others right, etc., that the OTHER COUNTRIES can then do that to the US military? How would you like it if you had a family member and/or friend in the military and the soldiers on the OTHER SIDE shot THEM and that was it? Just wondering.
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Post by beth on Apr 19, 2010 15:32:54 GMT
Put it this way. If you're in a war, and there are enemy combatants shooting at you, you should try to kill them or capture them. If you capture them you're probably not too concerned about gathering rules of evidence or reading them their legal rights. Now that we have these nut cases in Amnesty International and the US Democratic Party I think our military should decide to just go ahead and shoot them in the future. It's much better in the long run. Then you don't have to deal with the nutbag terrorist sympathizers who want to give them legal rights and put them on trial. What about the domestic terrorists? Should we just line them up and shoot them without a trial, too? Sure would simplify things.
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Post by mouse on Apr 19, 2010 16:42:40 GMT
Mouse and Bushy what about those who were picked up without any proper reason? those that are actually innocent? when you put a bounty on men brought in then you KNOW some are going to be innocent..old scores settled...rivals pushed out of the way etc what america did was an abomination.....on their heads be it..i really dont care...but these things happen always have done,,always will do....will i lose sleep over it..no but about fighters..i care not let em rot sadly the brit ones were not left to rot nor were those ""resedents of britain""
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Post by Mo-DAWG on Apr 19, 2010 16:56:51 GMT
since 2000 we have turned into a terrorist nation ourselves, lead by war criminals who spread lies to control the oil in the middle east .. and then some of us still seem surprised that even a high percentage of europeans hates and scorns us.. we are guilty of these war crimes too cuz we willingly took orders and made ourselves to obdient drones for these war criminals
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Post by fretslider on Apr 19, 2010 17:12:51 GMT
since 2000 we have turned into a terrorist nation ourselves, lead by war criminals who spread lies to control the oil in the middle east .. and then some of us still seem surprised that even a high percentage of europeans hates and scorns us.. we are guilty of these war crimes too cuz we willingly took orders and made ourselves to obdient drones for these war criminals We don't hate the American people, Mo. But we do have a strong disdain for the American government - Obama is really not that different.
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Post by Mo-DAWG on Apr 19, 2010 17:23:17 GMT
since 2000 we have turned into a terrorist nation ourselves, lead by war criminals who spread lies to control the oil in the middle east .. and then some of us still seem surprised that even a high percentage of europeans hates and scorns us.. we are guilty of these war crimes too cuz we willingly took orders and made ourselves to obdient drones for these war criminals We don't hate the American people, Mo. But we do have a strong disdain for the American government - Obama is really not that different. Fret .. thats exactly what i always bring up in discussions with people in Europe ... its NOT the American people that are war monging and evil bastards but the government ... well and Obama.. lets face it ALL politicians are lobby whores and puppets ... so no matter who you elect its always: SAME SHIT - DIFFERENT ASSHOLE
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Post by fretslider on Apr 19, 2010 17:51:47 GMT
We don't hate the American people, Mo. But we do have a strong disdain for the American government - Obama is really not that different. Fret .. thats exactly what i always bring up in discussions with people in Europe ... its NOT the American people that are war monging and evil bastards but the government ... well and Obama.. lets face it ALL politicians are lobby whores and puppets ... so no matter who you elect its always: SAME SHIT - DIFFERENT ASSHOLE And its the same scenario wherever you go, Mo. Our lot really are enough to make anyone sick to the stomach.
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Post by mouse on Apr 19, 2010 18:22:48 GMT
Fret .. thats exactly what i always bring up in discussions with people in Europe ... its NOT the American people that are war monging and evil bastards but the government ... well and Obama.. lets face it ALL politicians are lobby whores and puppets ... so no matter who you elect its always: SAME SHIT - DIFFERENT ASSHOLE And its the same scenario wherever you go, Mo. Our lot really are enough to make anyone sick to the stomach. feel the same way as fret..no problem with the american people but the gov and gov lackeys are a scourge on the planet..as for our lot words fail me greedy grasping lying scumbags
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Post by Mo-DAWG on Apr 19, 2010 20:06:06 GMT
Fret .. thats exactly what i always bring up in discussions with people in Europe ... its NOT the American people that are war monging and evil bastards but the government ... well and Obama.. lets face it ALL politicians are lobby whores and puppets ... so no matter who you elect its always: SAME SHIT - DIFFERENT ASSHOLE And its the same scenario wherever you go, Mo. Our lot really are enough to make anyone sick to the stomach. yes it is ... just look at the EU scumbags .. part of my family has settled in Switzerland .. we have a home there ... sometimes im wondering if Switzerland is the last real Democracy left in the world.. the people are being asked to vote before the government makes important decisions .. its all in the people's hands .. another reason why Switzerland never agreed and never will agree to that fucking EU dictatorshit .. oh and yes i know many countries damn Switzerland for being a tax haven ... why dont they damn Great Britian for the same thing? just google it .. Britian is a tax haven for wealthy foreigners .. no kidding .. it IS .. just read up on it .. its all EU propaganda .. if Switzerland was in EU claws like Britiain is they wouldnt even accuse it of being a tax haven... the EU and Amrican simply attack everything it doesnt have control over and it makes them even madder to realize they wont control Switzerland in the future either. ....
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Post by fretslider on Apr 19, 2010 20:46:31 GMT
And its the same scenario wherever you go, Mo. Our lot really are enough to make anyone sick to the stomach. yes it is ... just look at the EU scumbags .. part of my family has settled in Switzerland .. we have a home there ... sometimes im wondering if Switzerland is the last real Democracy left in the world.. the people are being asked to vote before the government makes important decisions .. its all in the people's hands .. another reason why Switzerland never agreed and never will agree to that fucking EU dictatorshit .. oh and yes i know many countries damn Switzerland for being a tax haven ... why dont they damn Great Britian for the same thing? just google it .. Britian is a tax haven for wealthy foreigners .. no kidding .. it IS .. just read up on it .. its all EU propaganda .. if Switzerland was in EU claws like Britiain is they wouldnt even accuse it of being a tax haven... the EU and Amrican simply attack everything it doesnt have control over and it makes them even madder to realize they wont control Switzerland in the future either. .... Now I'm really depressed, thanks Mo The EU was/is a good idea, but its been hi-jacked by the great washed-up in national politics and they are building their socialist dystopia at our expense. Democratic it ain't.
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Post by Mo-DAWG on Apr 19, 2010 20:58:33 GMT
yes it is ... just look at the EU scumbags .. part of my family has settled in Switzerland .. we have a home there ... sometimes im wondering if Switzerland is the last real Democracy left in the world.. the people are being asked to vote before the government makes important decisions .. its all in the people's hands .. another reason why Switzerland never agreed and never will agree to that fucking EU dictatorshit .. oh and yes i know many countries damn Switzerland for being a tax haven ... why dont they damn Great Britian for the same thing? just google it .. Britian is a tax haven for wealthy foreigners .. no kidding .. it IS .. just read up on it .. its all EU propaganda .. if Switzerland was in EU claws like Britiain is they wouldnt even accuse it of being a tax haven... the EU and Amrican simply attack everything it doesnt have control over and it makes them even madder to realize they wont control Switzerland in the future either. .... Now I'm really depressed, thanks Mo The EU was/is a good idea, but its been hi-jacked by the great washed-up in national politics and they are building their socialist dystopia at our expense. Democratic it ain't. oh no please dont let this depress you Fret ..thats not why i pointed it out .. i pointed it out to make people aware of things so we might be able to change things through our choices ..
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Post by fretslider on Apr 19, 2010 21:36:51 GMT
Now I'm really depressed, thanks Mo The EU was/is a good idea, but its been hi-jacked by the great washed-up in national politics and they are building their socialist dystopia at our expense. Democratic it ain't. oh no please dont let this depress you Fret ..thats not why i pointed it out .. i pointed it out to make people aware of things so we might be able to change things through our choices .. Ah, but therein lies the secret, Mo. Brown promised a referendum and promptly went back on his promise. We had no choice. This country is the least democratic of all, even Iraq has more democracy than we do. Now there's a laugh.
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