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Post by clemiethedog on Mar 25, 2010 16:32:53 GMT
I heard about 20 seconds of a Billy Joel song this morning (For the Longest Time), and I was reminded that I absolutely cannot stand Billy Joel. Now why is that? I'm no musicologist, but even I can tell that he writes very well crafted pop songs, usually in something of the Broadway musical/pre-rock crooner (Sinatra, Tony Bennett etc.) tradition. The guy is clearly a gifted musician, he writes memorable melodies and catchy hooks, his lyrics aren't bad by pop song standards, and yet I just can't stand his stuff. The only song of his that doesn't cause me to instantly switch the station is Piano Man, which I'll listen to under certain conditions, usually involving alcohol.
Meanwhile, there are tons of out and out pop dreck that I still enjoy hearing, while fully recognizing it's total lack of redeeming social value, i.e. KC and the Sunshine Band, ABBA, Midnight at the Oasis, Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting, and on and one. None of this stuff is "good" musically in terms of the craft value sense that Joel's songs are "good," i.e., well crafted, technically well done and so forth, but I enjoy it. Meanwhile Joel's music is mildly annoying at best and nails on a chalkboard aggravating on many occasions.
To me that is. I realize that for many people all these aesthetic judgments would be reversed, in terms of enjoyment (not, I don't think, in terms of the well-crafted technically proficient stuff, which is relatively objective by comparison).
One of the things that attracted me to the punk movement (and still does) is that many of the bands involved were making music because they had something to say and wanted to express it. This was different from many of the pop bands of the day who were either created by a producer and playing to make money (not all punk bands were averse to this idea; the Butthole Surfers, in particular, repeatedly emphasized that they were in it to get paid) or were playing to 'be' performers.
I think the latter applies to Joel. He has at least the facade of a Tony Bennett type, in that he's clearly setting something up to entertain an audience, rather than delivering a message or playing because he has the deep inner need or whatever.
I'm almost totally alienated from current pop music because it's almost all of the producer/computer-created type; to the point where one of the big winners of the Grammys for country music apparently can't even sing in key and relies on a computer to smooth that out and make her listenable (admittedly, no computer could save Henry Rollins' voice, but he doesn't have to croon to make his music work, either.) That will just never appeal to me and I think I've learned to tell what's producer music and what is 'real' music (at least, according to my subjective ear.)
This, of course, doesn't exclude punk from being subject to the same things (Green Day is hideously overproduced for a punk band), as well as much older stuff. You can tell the difference between something coming from the driven-to-as-good-as-Ludwig Brahms and the I'm-doing-this-because-I-have-a-commission Zelensky.
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Post by beth on Mar 25, 2010 21:42:39 GMT
Clemie, do not take offense (I implore you). My first thought on reading this is that you are a snob - musically that is . Your POV is not as insufferable as theirs, but it reminds me a lot of Rolling Stone's long ago and far away (but never forgotten) music critics - Dave Marsh and Greil Marcus. Does that ring a bell with you? They deplored music they believed had been created with mostly commercial considerations, and had a lot of followers, which is why RS kept them on year after year (another kind of commercial consideration lol). I disagreed with them most of the time. Interesting discussion topic. More later.
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Post by beth on Mar 28, 2010 14:34:00 GMT
Clemie, I seem to have killed your thread. Mea culpa. It might be a tad more accessible down in the main area of CV (out of Muzak). AH can move it if you'd like. My POV comes from my interest in music all over the spectrum, and you have every right to sneer at balladeers, if you choose. Although my favorite genre is rock IF the talent is there, I'm happy with Billy Joel, too - not every single song he sings, but enough of them to give him a pass for any commercial motivations he may have/had. I'm not as interested in the whys and wherefores as in the talent and the ability to produce music I enjoy. Joel's album The Stranger is very good.
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Post by clemiethedog on Mar 28, 2010 15:45:31 GMT
You're right, this perhaps is the wrong location. Ah, the trouble of sub-folders!
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Post by mouse on Mar 28, 2010 16:23:09 GMT
your both wrong...the wonderful thing about MUSIC IS THERE IS something FOR EVERY ONES TASTE... my tastes range from my first love which is classical..through to some jazz...some gospel..some 40-50,s to queen..and the odd popsong like instrumentation..full orchestra..some saxe...some violin etc etc its a world all its own caters for all
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2010 17:05:17 GMT
Well, if it any consolation Clemie, I thopught Billy Joel was a girl.
In fact, I don't know why I even bothered to look at this thread, let alone post here!
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Post by beth on Mar 28, 2010 17:59:53 GMT
your both wrong...the wonderful thing about MUSIC IS THERE IS something FOR EVERY ONES TASTE... my tastes range from my first love which is classical..through to some jazz...some gospel..some 40-50,s to queen..and the odd popsong like instrumentation..full orchestra..some saxe...some violin etc etc its a world all its own caters for all Mouse, that's pretty much what I was trying to say - that there is good music all across the spectrum - something for everyone - mucho somethings if you have eclectic, wide ranging tastes. Though I'm not too taken with 40s-50s music, I have favorites in every other genre you mention. My opinion about Sinatra is similar to the one Clemie has about Joel - and Gabriel likes both those guys a lot. I expect he has just not seen this thread. What did I say that you didn't agree with? I'm always curious to know where I muddled something.
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Post by beth on Mar 28, 2010 18:01:18 GMT
Well, if it any consolation Clemie, I thopught Billy Joel was a girl. In fact, I don't know why I even bothered to look at this thread, let alone post here! Don't you like music, Sky?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2010 18:25:56 GMT
Yes, but for some odd reason I seldom listen to it, unless I'm in the car. Even then, I'm more likely to tune into Radio 4 (a BBC talk channel).
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Post by mouse on Mar 28, 2010 18:55:15 GMT
crossed wires....probably me.....i dont always think straight
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Post by beth on Mar 28, 2010 20:42:21 GMT
Yes, but for some odd reason I seldom listen to it, unless I'm in the car. Even then, I'm more likely to tune into Radio 4 (a BBC talk channel). My older daughter has some kind of nervous aversion to listening to too much music. When she was young, after about a half hour on car trips she'd need me to turn off the radio. Now, she can only enjoy it in small doses. She goes to concerts with no problem, but with CDs or radio, has to take a break after a few selections. Her brother used to tease her about it, but finally realized it was something she couldn't help and gave her some sympathy.
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